What about Kensington in Philadelphia?
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 81 posts · 7 votes
Philadelphia is proving to be a tougher nut to crack than anticipated. Everything desirable is too high for me, since I would like to pay cash (max 250k) (bad credit risk due to no income) Kensington seems to have some good deals. Is proximity to Fishtown making the area a good investment? What are some other neighborhoods adjacent to mostly played out hot areas that might start spilling over?
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See agentsHi @Mike Girard
I know Philadelphia very well. I was born and raised here. I spent the fist 6 years of my life living in the what is now Fairmount/Broad Girard area. I then moved with my parents to what is now called Allegheny West in North Philadelphia. I went to high school and worked for a number of years after college in the University City area of Philadelphia. I have owned or still own property in the Center City, University City, West Philadelphia, and Northeast Philadelphia. I knew this city like the back of my hand. I write all this to say that when I give you information about the city you can trust that I know what I am talking about. I am not just someone on the outside looking in.
So here goes. Firstly, if you are interested in buying and holding, whether single family or multifamily, Philadelphia is the place for you not the suburbs. By the way, the areas mentioned by @Joe Cummings are not suburbs of Philadelphia. They are towns, cities that are outside of Philadelphia and its surrounding suburbs. Approximately 48% of the people living within Philadelphia city limits are renters. The makeup of the surrounding suburbs is family oriented. You won't find many renters here and even fewer small (duplex/triplex) rental units here. I know because I developed my flip/buy and hold strategies based on my experience of investing in the surrounding suburbs.
Fishtown and Northern Liberties are areas as you have learned and heard from others that are well developed and this translate into pricy. These areas have spilled into New Kensington (just north of Fishtown) and I see a lot of movement in the greater area of Kensington. I would suggest that you keep the greater Kensington area on your list and maybe concentrate your search to the neighborhoods closer to New Kensington. There are deals to be had here, but it will take vigilance. Point Breeze is also an up and coming area. They have a great Community Development Corporation that is focused on revitalization. As a side note, I was in the area this past Friday helping to build raised gardening boxes on a one time vacant lot for a community garden that will allow area neighbors to grow there own fruits and vegetables. You will be able to find some good deals here (closer to the Schuylkill river) in this area. A word of caution, all these areas mentioned by me and others are areas that have risen up out of the ashes for the most part, so great deals will be hard to come by...be prepared to pay a lot more than say a comparable house lesser developed area of Philadelphia.
Lastly, I would suggest you not rule out areas that was mentioned by @John Matthews. I live in East Mt. Airy and it is a well established family area with SFH as well as multi. Because of the close proximity to Chestnut Hill, Germantown, and Montgomery county (surrounding suburb with a great of employment opportunities) this area is very desired so when good deals pop up here they don't hang around for long. There is also a lot of things with respect to development and the call for redevelopment/revitalization in the Germantown area. This area as multiple organizations focused on turning the area around. It is one of the most historic neighborhoods in the country, so preserving it has become a focus as of late.
I know I rattled on here, but I wanted to give a perspective from someone who truly knows the city. Also, I have posted in the past a number links that will help you learn a little more about the neighborhoods in Philly. A search on my name should bring them up.
Please feel free to inbox me if you have any additional questions you don't want to post here.
I should add that I'm making trips to Philly to check out neighborhoods. Have done one and visited Powelton Village, Passyunk Square, Dickinson Narrows, Pennsport. Got any recommendations for what I should look at on my next trip?
Was really pleasantly surprised by how clean, user-friendly and pretty Philly is, by the way. Seems like a well-kept secret.
Hi Mike,
Glad your trips to Philly are going well. I'm biased but I do think it's a great city! I honestly wish I knew more about Kensington myself, I know parts of it are a great bet for appreciation...I'm just not up enough on that area to advise you. Do check out Brewerytown next time you're in the area. It's a good bet for appreciation and has quite a bit going for it. Also, check out Germantown and Mt. Airy, both have beautiful older homes and many multis (I think that's what you were looking for?) and are still affordable in some parts. Germantown more so, Mt. Airy is relatively well established but you may find a diamond in the rough there. Good luck!
Thanks for the tips, Troy. You're always very helpful.
Just read up on Mt. Airy. Seems like a really nice neighborhood.
Hey Mike,
If you are looking in Kensington, ld stay right around Frankford ave side (Closer to I95). I drive the area maybe once a week (realtor in area). The redevelopment in fishtown looks to be moving up through Kensington/East into Port Richman. It could move west as well, don't know that area to much but thats what i have been seeing. Havnt driven much past the other side of Kensington ave.
Thanks for the tips, everyone. Any thoughts on which has the most potential between Kensington and Point Breeze? First investment is going to likely be a duplex that I live in. Any other areas I should look at? I'm interested in Pennsport, but it's tough for a cash investor with my limits.
Thanks for the tips, everyone. Any thoughts on which has the most potential between Kensington and Point Breeze? First investment is going to likely be a duplex that I live in. Any other areas I should look at? I'm interested in Pennsport, but it's tough for a cash investor with my limits.
Its a sizeable gap between Kensington and Point Breeze, no matter which route you take. You might need to get into more specifics on your search criteria. Port Richmond might work for you(its not far from Kensington / Fishtown areas). Northern Liberties is next to Fishtown and is up and coming for sure. If you are looking in South Philly areas (from South St down thru Oregon Ave)95% are going to be pricey since its top of the hot list in Phila as its location location location can't be beat! However you must be mindful of the variation from one block to another in many neighborhoods in 215. That's often the conundrum for many, locals and out of towners.
Kudos,
Mary
Mike, at $250k you can definitely find places in point breeze. If what you're looking to do though is go the duplex, they're harder to find in south philly, IMO. Are you comfortable doing a little work and forcing the appreciation (Buy - rehab - rent for example)? Are you looking for mostly turnkey?
If you'd like let me know when you'll be in the area next and we can sit down and talk. I've got one property that I should be closing on in June in point breeze that's well under the price range you're looking at, and I have seen quite a few more come across my desk lately.
Be sure to visit Needle Park while you're there
Be sure to visit Needle Park while you're there
And stop for coffee and doughnuts with the locals at "The Last Stop" on Kensington Ave.
Woulda never guessed you were from the burbs, Joe.
Woulda never guessed you were from the burbs, Joe.
Work took me through Kensington a couple of times a week, back in the 80's and 90's. People go to Kensington to "party". And by party, I mean nodded out on opiates, or smoking crack and turning tricks.
If you want to invest somewhere near there. Think Bridesburg or Port Richmond. Really, 250k will get you a half decent place in the burbs. Look in Croydon, Trevose, or West Bristol for SFH. There are some deals on townhouses. I know of a few people who are pretty stretched out and in their declining years in Bensalem's Hidden Valley section.
I don't want to invest in the suburbs. I prefer cities, junkies and all. Appreciate the insider details, though. The more I know about everything in Philly, the better.
I don't want to invest in the suburbs. I prefer cities, junkies and all. Appreciate the insider details, though. The more I know about everything in Philly, the better.
Hookers and addicts are showing up north along the i-95 cooridor. Seems to be increasing in places like Mayfair, and Talcony. Local talk blames it on the cops pushing them farther from the areas like Fishtown and Northern Liberties.
Oh and make sure you ask about the "storm water run off fee" . My friends with commercial/industrial properties are always crying about paying that
Hi @Mike Girard
I know Philadelphia very well. I was born and raised here. I spent the fist 6 years of my life living in the what is now Fairmount/Broad Girard area. I then moved with my parents to what is now called Allegheny West in North Philadelphia. I went to high school and worked for a number of years after college in the University City area of Philadelphia. I have owned or still own property in the Center City, University City, West Philadelphia, and Northeast Philadelphia. I knew this city like the back of my hand. I write all this to say that when I give you information about the city you can trust that I know what I am talking about. I am not just someone on the outside looking in.
So here goes. Firstly, if you are interested in buying and holding, whether single family or multifamily, Philadelphia is the place for you not the suburbs. By the way, the areas mentioned by @Joe Cummings are not suburbs of Philadelphia. They are towns, cities that are outside of Philadelphia and its surrounding suburbs. Approximately 48% of the people living within Philadelphia city limits are renters. The makeup of the surrounding suburbs is family oriented. You won't find many renters here and even fewer small (duplex/triplex) rental units here. I know because I developed my flip/buy and hold strategies based on my experience of investing in the surrounding suburbs.
Fishtown and Northern Liberties are areas as you have learned and heard from others that are well developed and this translate into pricy. These areas have spilled into New Kensington (just north of Fishtown) and I see a lot of movement in the greater area of Kensington. I would suggest that you keep the greater Kensington area on your list and maybe concentrate your search to the neighborhoods closer to New Kensington. There are deals to be had here, but it will take vigilance. Point Breeze is also an up and coming area. They have a great Community Development Corporation that is focused on revitalization. As a side note, I was in the area this past Friday helping to build raised gardening boxes on a one time vacant lot for a community garden that will allow area neighbors to grow there own fruits and vegetables. You will be able to find some good deals here (closer to the Schuylkill river) in this area. A word of caution, all these areas mentioned by me and others are areas that have risen up out of the ashes for the most part, so great deals will be hard to come by...be prepared to pay a lot more than say a comparable house lesser developed area of Philadelphia.
Lastly, I would suggest you not rule out areas that was mentioned by @John Matthews. I live in East Mt. Airy and it is a well established family area with SFH as well as multi. Because of the close proximity to Chestnut Hill, Germantown, and Montgomery county (surrounding suburb with a great of employment opportunities) this area is very desired so when good deals pop up here they don't hang around for long. There is also a lot of things with respect to development and the call for redevelopment/revitalization in the Germantown area. This area as multiple organizations focused on turning the area around. It is one of the most historic neighborhoods in the country, so preserving it has become a focus as of late.
I know I rattled on here, but I wanted to give a perspective from someone who truly knows the city. Also, I have posted in the past a number links that will help you learn a little more about the neighborhoods in Philly. A search on my name should bring them up.
Please feel free to inbox me if you have any additional questions you don't want to post here.
Parkwood isn't bad either. Lots of well maintained "Grandma's Houses" that could use an updating. Lots of cops and firemen there. (By law they have to live within city limits)
Paulette -
You can 'rattle on' for me anytime! Thanks for all the info. Are there any opportunities to be had around the Pennsport area? Glad to hear about Germantown. Seems to have a lot of viable listings relative to the other places I'm looking at. Will put that one on my list also.
I just realized I misread Paulette on Germantown. But Mt. Airy is on my list.
Woulda never guessed you were from the burbs, Joe.
Work took me through Kensington a couple of times a week, back in the 80's and 90's. People go to Kensington to "party". And by party, I mean nodded out on opiates, or smoking crack and turning tricks.
If you want to invest somewhere near there. Think Bridesburg or Port Richmond. Really, 250k will get you a half decent place in the burbs. Look in Croydon, Trevose, or West Bristol for SFH. There are some deals on townhouses. I know of a few people who are pretty stretched out and in their declining years in Bensalem's Hidden Valley section.
I know Kensington enough to know that parts of it are way different now. I'm not saying there aren't still parts like this (there definitely are!!!), I am saying there are parts that are seeing massive development/rehab/gentrification. Sounds like you're a little scared of the big, bad city Joe...Mike is from NYC, pretty sure he's seen a junkie or three in his day.
Did you know John Veniziale or Cosmo from Liberty RediMix?
Or how about this "Legend"
Gus Propper?
Or are they all from before your time?
Did you know John Veniziale or Cosmo from Liberty RediMix?
Or how about this "Legend"
Gus Propper?
Or are they all from before your time?
Sorry Joe,
Don't know any of those characters. I used to work in Fishtown near the border of Kensington and my travels would take me through there occasionally or I'd hear stories from customers from over that way. That and some daytime cruises around the area are the extent of my Kenso knowledge. Plus what I've seen online price-wise for parts of it. When I was in that area 6-7 years ago, Kensington was an absolute no-go for REI. These days people are building new construction there. Big change in 6 years.
Did you know John Veniziale or Cosmo from Liberty RediMix?
Or how about this "Legend"
Gus Propper?
Or are they all from before your time?
Sorry Joe,
Don't know any of those characters. I used to work in Fishtown near the border of Kensington and my travels would take me through there occasionally or I'd hear stories from customers from over that way. That and some daytime cruises around the area are the extent of my Kenso knowledge. Plus what I've seen online price-wise for parts of it. When I was in that area 6-7 years ago, Kensington was an absolute no-go for REI. These days people are building new construction there. Big change in 6 years.
Gus tore down all those houses where they built that shopping center near Aramingo & Girard, where Pep Boys is. He died about 10 years ago.
Cosmo's Kid Tony has Metro Readymix next to Parkview hospital. That used to be Liberty Readymix. John V. owned Liberty for years. He did lots of rehabs long before anyone called it "flipping".
PHILADELPHIA, Dec. 10— The police are used to investigating ''street crime,'' but the term took on a new meaning when they arrested two men for stealing a 100-year- old street.
Lieut.
Edward Nolan said an anonymous caller told the police last month that thousands of Belgian granite blocks had been torn up and carted away from the South Philadelphia waterfront. ''Who'd believe that?'' he said said.
He does now. And so does the Streets Department, which is responsible for the scarce 5-pound paving stones, generally used for restoration in Philadelphia's colonial areas around Independence Hall.
The tip led to the arrests last week of Gustav Propper, 49 years old, of Philadelphia, and Joseph Monkewitz, 36, of suburban Glenside, on charges of theft, receiving stolen property, criminal mischief and conspiracy.
Mr. Nolan said the anonymous caller had told the police to check out construction work on East Mifflin Street, in a ''not heavily traveled'' warehouse area near the Delaware River. Vehicle Treads Found
''When we investigated, we found truck and tractor treads in the torn-up dirt,'' he said. After investigation, the police charged that Mr. Propper had hired Mr. Monkewitz to tear up the street and take the stones to a nearby lot. There, the police said, the blocks were stored for sale to a New Jersey contractor who thought he was buying legitimate merchandise.
Lieutenant Nolan said the stones were being sold for $1 a block. Most were recovered.
''There are certain towns in Northern Jersey - I don't know which towns - that have zoning for granite block curbing,'' he said. ''Contractors will buy them swiftly, paying cash.''
The granite blocks, 12 by 6 inches and 4 inches thick, were transported from Europe in the 19th century as ballast in freighters, which left them here when they picked up cargo.
drawing
Hi @Mike Girard
Yes, there are opportunities still to be had at good prices in Pennsport. This area is close to the sports stadium and consist of working class Philadelphians. Many of the Mummer clubs are located in Pennsport and if I am not mistaken the neighborhood is home to a large Irish population. I am finding that the best prices (homes need some work) are in the area closet to the Delaware river as opposed to home closer to Broad street.