First Non-Performing Note Purchase--Help/Advice Please!

First Non-Performing Note Purchase--Help/Advice Please!

Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 549 posts · 310 votes

Hello to all note experts and paper investors-

I am a real estate guy, but recently have been digging into investing in performing and non-performing notes. I would like to learn the business inside and out, and, just like all things, after learning and listening, had to just jump in.

I recently won a bid on a non-performing Note here in my local market of Indianapolis. Here are the particulars of the purchase:

1st Lien Position

Non Performing

Rate: 8.25%

UPB: ~$30,000

Purchase Price: $2,300

After doing some digging, the borrower is a husband/wife couple who owns only one property (in their names) in Indianapolis, and the tax bill is mailed directly to the subject collateral, thus making me assume it was at one point owner-occupied. The collateral itself is worth approximately ~$30,000. The husband passed away in November of 2011, which is when the last payment on the loan was made. However, after looking into the county tax records, three years of property taxes were recently paid ~$10,000 which kept the property out of tax sale. Yet no payments have been made to the current Note holder...

Ideally, I would like to work with the borrower to get the loan performing again. Reduce rate, and increase amortization/payment amount in order to recoup investment more quickly, thus increasing the value of the note.

Obviously I have documents to look over and confirm that there are trails of recordings and assignments at the recorders office during due diligence. However...is this a deal worth pursuing? If nothing else, it is $2,300--probably $4,000 or so after fees and legal costs. If I end up losing some coin, it isn't the end of the world. I'd like to have some real life experience in getting deals like this done, as I would like to do more and more of this in the future.

Any thoughts, comments, or ideas would be helpful. Thanks to all!

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Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
10y

First thought, that $10k in taxes that was paid recently....are you sure they were simply paid (find out who paid them) or were they paid by way of a tax lien sale, "certificate", or whatever they call them there, and these taxes are in fact still due to some third party?

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  • Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    That is very cheap for a non performing note in todays market.  Either you got a great deal or this has some "hair" on it.

    Have you run a title report yet?  Make sure the property didn't go to tax sale.

    How doe the property look?  You mentioned it is in your market did you drive it?  

  • Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 549 posts · 310 votes
    10y

    @Bob E.

    Thanks for the response. That was my concern...that there is "hair" on it. I just entered due diligence last night and began a very amateur overview of the documents. I need to get my attorney's eyes on them. That being said, as a first time Note buyer, I am positive on what "hair" I need to be on alert for.

    Have not yet run a title report...and as I mentioned in my original post, 3 years of delinquent taxes were paid in mid-2015 to prevent the property from going to tax sale. So somebody related to the transaction "wants" the house...or at least is demonstrating behavior related to that sentiment.

    The property is in okay shape. If nothing else, I can push it off to a wholesaler for $10,000. I am sure it has municipal liens attached to it, which will be some nice expenses to front during this deal. But if I am looking at particulars correctly here, still makes sense...

    Any other thoughts?

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Clay Manship, please, tell us more of this "hair".

    On the surface of it, you and Bob are talking a completely different language than what RE Investors (or me at least) are used to hearing about. Thanks...

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    10y

    First thought, that $10k in taxes that was paid recently....are you sure they were simply paid (find out who paid them) or were they paid by way of a tax lien sale, "certificate", or whatever they call them there, and these taxes are in fact still due to some third party?

  • Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 549 posts · 310 votes
    10y

    @Wayne Brooks

    Glad I called...looks like there was a misprint on their website. Taxes have NOT been paid current...$8,200 owed before due date, May 10. If not, the property is up for tax sale in October.

    So now I am spending $2,300 on the Note, $8,200 on taxes, legal, certainly some municipal liens, and other recording charges...probably upwards of $13,000 all-in to the Note in order to "clear" it. Makes getting a Note like this "reperforming" a lot less attractive when the collateral is worth ~$25-30k. 

    Assuming I am looking at a repositioning price of $12,000, is there still meat on the bone here? Is there a strategy I am missing here? Uncle Sam needs his money...and SOMEBODY is going to have to pay it...

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Clay Manship, "misprint"? Good one!

  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas · Member since 2012 · 107 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    Glad you called in. I looked online and added both taxes to the cart to pay and it shows a balance owed of $8,769.92. Also there are several liens from 2005 and 2012 that I do not see releases for. You would need to go to the recorder's or county clerk office and view the amounts.

    You can view the deed record index like I did above for Marion County by going here http://in3laredo.fidlar.com/INMarion/DirectSearch/...  This is to view the index only, no documents are available to view.

    They have paid options available to view the actual documents - I do not have experience with either. http://www.indy.gov/eGov/County/Recorder/Pages/home.aspx   Click on Laredo or Tapestry on the right hand side

  • Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2013 · 549 posts · 310 votes
    10y

    @Matt G.

    Thank you for your insight. I looked in the index, but have limited knowledge of how to read the entries, much lease look for releases for these recorded liens, etc. Do you have experience in Marion County, or did you simply know how to pull up the County Recorder's index and immediately  know how to read through the entries?

    Would appreciate talking more with you on your process here...!

  • Rental Property Investor · Dallas · Member since 2012 · 107 posts · 69 votes
    10y

    Hey Clay, it looks like you actually can click the links in the index and get a summary of the information, but still not view the actual document. Typing in the last name by itself yielded a couple of additional documents that don't look good for you. Looks like there is a code enforcement issue and maybe not even a habitable house. You could probably call the code enforcement department and find out what the details are. 

    I don't have any experience with Indiana, but I do have title research experience so I just googled Indianapolis deed records which led me to the Marion County site. I will respond to your PM as well

    A201400087318 COT 09-11-2014 12:46 PM $5000.00 1 page

    Parties

    HEALTH & HOSPITAL CORP GRANTOR

    DEPARTMENT OF CODE ENFORCEMENT GRANTOR

    FARN*****, M GRANTEE

    FARN*****, T GRANTEE

    Parcel Numbers

    1048529

    Common Street Address

    xxxx SINGLETON ST INDPLS IN 00000

    Deliver To

    DCE UNSAFE BUILDING 1200 MADISON AVE STE 100 INDIANAPOLIS IN 46225 09-12-2014

  • Specialist · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 160 posts · 20 votes
    10y

    Great input everyone! @Clay Manship, keep us in the loop with what you decide to do!

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 13 posts · 5 votes
    10y

    Here's what I found from code enforcement for you. 

    I don't see anything meaning the house is un-inhabitable. Most of the time unsafe just means windows haven't been boarded up, or IMPD reported a squatter. 

    The upside to this property is; it's not located in a war zone and gentrification is in full swing just a few blocks north. I'm sure you could easily unload it to a wholesaler or even list it on Craigslist.

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