Buying From A Dead Person: CA Affidavit for Real Prop., DE-305

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Buying From A Dead Person: CA Affidavit for Real Prop., DE-305

Duke George Brady
Specialist · Fallbrook, CA · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 4 votes

Hello!

I've been searching around...tough to find direct answers on this one. Hoping for someone with past experience...

About to close my first deal, and I'll be buying vacant land from a person who inherited two parcels from their father. One went in their name, and I'm closing on that one. The adjacent, larger lot, somehow didn't get transferred to her name, yet she has a Will stating her as the heir (all appropriate docs submitted to county, supposedly). 

I'd like to get this other, more valuable lot as well, so I'm attempting to help her gain the power to sell it.  I've found there are "Simplified" Probate procedures (http://www.scscourt.org/self_help/probate/property/probate_simplified.shtml#z4), and the section/form "Affidavit Re: Real Property of Small Value ($20,000 or Less)" seems like the right choice. 

Fill form, provide death cert, Will, request valuation from County Referee, notarize, and wait. Right?

Main question is, will this then provide the seller with a deed with her name, or simply the power to sell?  In the latter case, would the next step be to file for a Letter of Administration?  Maybe it is "Simplified" and I'm reading into it too much. 

Thanks a ton, you brilliant equity experts!  Equitexperts!

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Rick H.
Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y

@Duke George Brady Too bad I didn't see you post earlier today because I'm out at my ranch in De Luz (Fallbrook).

Here's the answer the answer you wanted (but obviously did not get): 

You need to know the record owner's DOD (date of death) and determine the gross DOD value of all assets. If they total less than the DOD threshold as of law at that time, you may be able to sneak it in as a formal probate. 

Otherwise, if over the $150,000 combined value, (per probate court referee), you'll need to file a formal probate. 

If that happens, don't let the heir (actually beneficiary under will, if valid) then  be convinced to open probate with limited authority. Insist on Full IAEA Authority so court confirmation can be avoided. Otherwise, your offer will be subject to competitive overbidding by others. 

I've spoken at all the San Diego County Bar Association Probate Sections at least once I'll PM you with a probate attorney I like in Oceanside

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  • Jo-Ann LapinPro Member
    Loan Officer · Tustin, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 713 votes
    10y

    I would contact a title officer from one the big 3 and get some direction. Do you have a motorized death certicate?

    [email protected]
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  • Duke George Brady
    OP
    Specialist · Fallbrook, CA · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    Yes, there is a notarized death certificate, and the Will is solid too (these two docs were applied to the parcel that DID get put in her name, so they've worked once, apparently).  

    Great idea, I will hope to get some casual guidance from a title officer, but since this is such a small deal, I can't justify paying for a lot of consultation.  

    Cheers @Jo-Ann Lapin ! :)

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  • Jo-Ann LapinPro Member
    Loan Officer · Tustin, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 713 votes
    10y

    I totally understand. Hollow if you need some help

    [email protected]
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  • Rick H.
    Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @Duke George Brady Too bad I didn't see you post earlier today because I'm out at my ranch in De Luz (Fallbrook).

    Here's the answer the answer you wanted (but obviously did not get): 

    You need to know the record owner's DOD (date of death) and determine the gross DOD value of all assets. If they total less than the DOD threshold as of law at that time, you may be able to sneak it in as a formal probate. 

    Otherwise, if over the $150,000 combined value, (per probate court referee), you'll need to file a formal probate. 

    If that happens, don't let the heir (actually beneficiary under will, if valid) then  be convinced to open probate with limited authority. Insist on Full IAEA Authority so court confirmation can be avoided. Otherwise, your offer will be subject to competitive overbidding by others. 

    I've spoken at all the San Diego County Bar Association Probate Sections at least once I'll PM you with a probate attorney I like in Oceanside

    2Reply
  • Derek W.
    Investor · Kern county Riverside County, CA · Member since 2008 · 494 posts · 261 votes
    10y

    in California there are multiple tiers of transfer rules. As @Rick H. mentioned, an estates referee (appraised) value determines which type of probate should be used. If you believe the lot is worth less than 20k Contact the referee and send Form DE-160 to the referee.

    Based on the referee value, you then know which level of probate is required. Less than 20k, no probate required. Just a few forms. Less than 50k is a very simple probate. Less 150,000 has different rules still and over 150,000 is a full probate. 

    1Reply
  • Duke George Brady
    OP
    Specialist · Fallbrook, CA · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    Thank you @Rick H. and @Derek W. !!!

    I've actually already got an inquiry in with a referee, and the forms (DE-160 and 161) ready.  It will be less than 20K, and so I'm glad to hear that this is a normal route to approaching this.  I had no idea what a referee even was, until I found myself emailing *****refereeguy92gmailcom.  Funny how they're sort of rogue but listed by the state, but of course certified/licensed/etc..  Here is another  way to hone your leads based on value and expected paperwork/workload; aim for under 20K w/deceased owners, offer heirs to guide them through the process. 

    @Rick H. I've been hunting for some vacant land out there in De Luz.  I grew up shooting BB guns and swimming out there.  Beautiful.  Definitely give a shout next time!

    1Reply
  • Duke George Brady
    OP
    Specialist · Fallbrook, CA · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    Hey @Derek W. , since you seem versed in this, I was wondering something else; Will the heir need to fill out a Change of Ownership form as well?  (http://assessor.lacounty.gov/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/BOE-502-D-OWN-176-PS-Rev.-9-3-14-ws.pdf)  Should/Can I initiate that first, if it's something that takes a long time?  

    Additionally, if you have any comments on California probate referees, like their turn around time, cost, etc., I'd greatly appreciate them.

    Cheers

    0Reply
  • Derek W.
    Investor · Kern county Riverside County, CA · Member since 2008 · 494 posts · 261 votes
    10y

    Here is a great link that outlines the process. 

    https://www.avvo.com/legal-guides/ugc/transferring...

    Turn around time depends on individual referee for your area. Could be a few weeks, or a month or more. 

    1Reply
  • Duke George Brady
    OP
    Specialist · Fallbrook, CA · Member since 2016 · 30 posts · 4 votes
    10y

    For education's sake, here's the end to this story (sorry to dredge it up):

    Found a friendly referee to do the valuation.  These people sometimes go out of pocket and then hold the paperwork until you send them their fee...this was about $110.

    Well, this deal fell apart because title search found that the heir's father had just quit claimed a deed to himself, squatting and hoping the PO or heirs never came around.  Regardless, I dropped the deal, but still had to pay the referee.  BUT, after explaining the situation, he was amicable and agreed to a $50 fee to cover his gas/time, and obviously wouldn't be releasing any paperwork. 

    Turn around time was less than a few weeks, and I may have gotten lucky with a nice referee.  I paid $50 to keep a deal going until I got all the (bad!) title details...pretty cheap education and insurance I suppose.  Next time I'll delay my "charitable" efforts until I have more chain of title certainty.

    And thanks again @Derek W.; I had actually scoured that site (referenced above) right when you had replied.  Perfect.

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