Which lending option should I go with 10 unit apartment building

Which lending option should I go with 10 unit apartment building

Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 3 votes

Hello trying to figure out the best possible lending option. Scroll to the bottom if you just want help answer my question and not read all the extra info about the property. Forgive me in advance for any typos.

Here are the facts I am contract with 10 unit all brick 3 story apt building 5 units are studios and 5 are 1 bedrooms located in one Columbus Ohio most vibrant neighborhoods  Victorian Village/Short North area for 599k with 4k closing costs. 

The building is grossly under rented, currently at $5300 per month gross with 1 bedrooms average 1 bedrooms at $650 and studios for $400. Average rents for the area would be $550 for studios $750 for one bedrooms as is with no renovations. Tenants pay all utilities with $25 dollar add to rent for each unit for water.  Two lower units have central ac the rest have window units. 

It has been cited by the city and Victorian Village commission (historical commission) for couple things major ones box gutter and cracking concrete near the fire escape stairwell. I plan redoing 200 linear feet of the box gutters, re pouring the concrete, patch fire escape and repaint, and re build bowing wall at back of it. Also fix columns near front porch as well as few other things. Quotes from previous owner bring in at 80k. My quotes closer to 60k. I plan on investing about 120k interior.  New hallways floor painting and lighting. Interior my goal is to renovate 6 units completely. Other 4 adding some updates here and there. My goal is be able to standardized units have slim dishwasher, combo washer/dryer, and as close to full size fridge as possible.  Currently there is one set of coin op laundry on first floor for the entire building. 

Questions about renovations?

Does anyone have experience with using all in one washer/dryer combos? I feel like I could them fit and work in most units especially one bedroom I wouldnt need run any 220v amps or much additional plumbing. Also will only be allowing one person to be living there in each unit so not like many loads will be done on a weekly basis. 

Also because I don't want blow out many walls. What are peoples experiences with PTAC and Mitsubishi units? My first impression was PTAC but the 1 bedroom units, the bedrooms are separated from the living space so would need two for those. Also some bathrooms have base heaters. That is why I thought about Mitsubishi units. 

On to my loan options. 

I have loan commitment letter. Where we have already agreed to 80% LTV on total acquisition cost of 700k. 1/2 point closing costs and 4.25 interest fixed for 5 years and 25 year amortization. No other closing costs except appraisal fee which I already paid.

600k for purchase and 100k that will be in escrow account to used for exterior code violations and interior deferred maintenance etc. I like the escrow option vs construction because dont have to worry about draws, fees, inspections etc. I originally asked for 50k more because at time I was only going to renovate the studios and few things to the 1 bedroom units. I was told by the loan officer that is the most they can do but depending on the appraisal can request more.  We were both expecting the appraisal to come back very strong and it indeed it did. Just received it. Mind the appraisial was done by very reputable commercial appraisal group.

As is value nothing done came back at...

700k!

Proposing 150k worth of renovations and stabilized after 12 months with proposed rents of $750 for studios and $900 for 1 bedrooms. Came back at....

1.12 million

Now this was more than both the Bank and I thought so I feel I def have some leverage to work against them and since I already paid for the appraiser and can take it to anywhere I want. 

This is what the bank came back with they will not increase the amount in escrow, but after code violations are complete they will give me 100k line of credit for prime plus 1%. 

Option 1

Push for additional amount for escrow having 150k instead of 100k. They didnt want do this but now that I have appraisal in hand may be different.

Pros - No draws, or title fees, its in escrow by third party and anything I don't use just gets check written back to me. So if I come under budget by 40k thats a check I can have to put down on another property or do work on another property with etc.

Cons - Paying for something I may not need? Larger monthly payment and down payment. 

Option 2

100k in escow and 100k  line of credit.

Pros - Pay for only what I need. Can use it whenever I want

Cons - Two different payments, as of now slightly higher interest rate. Payment is not amortized over 25 years believe will be 10 year fixed, need to confirm this. 

Option 3 construction loan

Pros- Interest only for 9 months. This is big becasue I am going to renovate unit by unit renovating 2 - 3 units at a time at most. So I can still be collecting rent for from other 8 units while only paying interest. I estimate I can pocket additional 30k since I will not have mortgage payment. 

Cons- Higher interest rate 4.75%, have to pay additional fees, title fees, draws, inspections etc. 

Lastly I am still talking to other banks and now that I have appraisal in hand would help when trying find other financing options..  I still have 45 days before I need to close and can request extension but would need to pay $100 per day for an extension. 

Any advice on any option would be helpful to include anything I should consider that I may have missed. 

Thank you bigger pocket community! Forgive me for typos I typed this in a hurry.

Eric 

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Robert EllisBusiness Member
Developer · Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Originally posted by @Eric S.:

Hello trying to figure out the best possible lending option. Scroll to the bottom if you just want help answer my question and not read all the extra info about the property. Forgive me in advance for any typos.

Here are the facts I am contract with 10 unit all brick 3 story apt building 5 units are studios and 5 are 1 bedrooms located in one Columbus Ohio most vibrant neighborhoods  Victorian Village/Short North area for 599k with 4k closing costs. 

The building is grossly under rented, currently at $5300 per month gross with 1 bedrooms average 1 bedrooms at $650 and studios for $400. Average rents for the area would be $550 for studios $750 for one bedrooms as is with no renovations. Tenants pay all utilities with $25 dollar add to rent for each unit for water.  Two lower units have central ac the rest have window units. 

It has been cited by the city and Victorian Village commission (historical commission) for couple things major ones box gutter and cracking concrete near the fire escape stairwell. I plan redoing 200 linear feet of the box gutters, re pouring the concrete, patch fire escape and repaint, and re build bowing wall at back of it. Also fix columns near front porch as well as few other things. Quotes from previous owner bring in at 80k. My quotes closer to 60k. I plan on investing about 120k interior.  New hallways floor painting and lighting. Interior my goal is to renovate 6 units completely. Other 4 adding some updates here and there. My goal is be able to standardized units have slim dishwasher, combo washer/dryer, and as close to full size fridge as possible.  Currently there is one set of coin op laundry on first floor for the entire building. 

Questions about renovations?

Does anyone have experience with using all in one washer/dryer combos? I feel like I could them fit and work in most units especially one bedroom I wouldnt need run any 220v amps or much additional plumbing. Also will only be allowing one person to be living there in each unit so not like many loads will be done on a weekly basis. 

Also because I don't want blow out many walls. What are peoples experiences with PTAC and Mitsubishi units? My first impression was PTAC but the 1 bedroom units, the bedrooms are separated from the living space so would need two for those. Also some bathrooms have base heaters. That is why I thought about Mitsubishi units. 

On to my loan options. 

I have loan commitment letter. Where we have already agreed to 80% LTV on total acquisition cost of 700k. 1/2 point closing costs and 4.25 interest fixed for 5 years and 25 year amortization. No other closing costs except appraisal fee which I already paid.

600k for purchase and 100k that will be in escrow account to used for exterior code violations and interior deferred maintenance etc. I like the escrow option vs construction because dont have to worry about draws, fees, inspections etc. I originally asked for 50k more because at time I was only going to renovate the studios and few things to the 1 bedroom units. I was told by the loan officer that is the most they can do but depending on the appraisal can request more.  We were both expecting the appraisal to come back very strong and it indeed it did. Just received it. Mind the appraisial was done by very reputable commercial appraisal group.

As is value nothing done came back at...

700k!

Proposing 150k worth of renovations and stabilized after 12 months with proposed rents of $750 for studios and $900 for 1 bedrooms. Came back at....

1.12 million

Now this was more than both the Bank and I thought so I feel I def have some leverage to work against them and since I already paid for the appraiser and can take it to anywhere I want. 

This is what the bank came back with they will not increase the amount in escrow, but after code violations are complete they will give me 100k line of credit for prime plus 1%. 

Option 1

Push for additional amount for escrow having 150k instead of 100k. They didnt want do this but now that I have appraisal in hand may be different.

Pros - No draws, or title fees, its in escrow by third party and anything I don't use just gets check written back to me. So if I come under budget by 40k thats a check I can have to put down on another property or do work on another property with etc.

Cons - Paying for something I may not need? Larger monthly payment and down payment. 

Option 2

100k in escow and 100k  line of credit.

Pros - Pay for only what I need. Can use it whenever I want

Cons - Two different payments, as of now slightly higher interest rate. Payment is not amortized over 25 years believe will be 10 year fixed, need to confirm this. 

Option 3 construction loan

Pros- Interest only for 9 months. This is big becasue I am going to renovate unit by unit renovating 2 - 3 units at a time at most. So I can still be collecting rent for from other 8 units while only paying interest. I estimate I can pocket additional 30k since I will not have mortgage payment. 

Cons- Higher interest rate 4.75%, have to pay additional fees, title fees, draws, inspections etc. 

Lastly I am still talking to other banks and now that I have appraisal in hand would help when trying find other financing options..  I still have 45 days before I need to close and can request extension but would need to pay $100 per day for an extension. 

Any advice on any option would be helpful to include anything I should consider that I may have missed. 

Thank you bigger pocket community! Forgive me for typos I typed this in a hurry.

Eric 

 Eric, who'd did you end up using for this purchase for funding? I know the property you are talking about on Neil Ave in Vic Village (close to downtown columbus ). It looks like you already closed on it. Awesome job!

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  • Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2015 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    First off...assuming your numbers are correct your head is definitely in the right place.

    My guess is that you will want to do a cash out refi when this building is done. This will allow you to pull money out to invest in another property. I usually go for about 70% LTV just so I cash flow well since that is the money we live off of.

    I would ask the bank if a hybrid loan is an option. So basically you would do something like Option 1 and when you are done with the reno you would have it reappraised for the cash out loan (you might be able to use the original ARV of the first appraisal). This also might avoid several closing cost issues.

    So 700k and you are putting down 140k so your loan amount is 560k. 

    Your refi will be 1.21 Million so with 30% down that's a new loan amount of 847k

    So 847k minus 560 k is 287k cash out. 

    That is the BRRRR method at it's finest.

    I would do option 2 and ask the bank if when you get 3 or 5 units done if they will up the LOC to 150k. Then when you refi the loan you get to keep the 150k LOC even though you will pay it off.

    Also when you tell them that you want to refi to an 847k loan that is more money in their pocket so I would think they would love to earn interest on that while you continue to reinvest in other properties. 

    Also I am currently putting a spreadsheet together of lenders and I currently have 38 on my list to call. 

    What bank are your working with and what banks are you thinking about calling?

    Jason

  • Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2015 · 43 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    @Jason Lewis 

    What do you mean mean keep the line of credit when I refinance. Also most banks usually require at least 12 month seasoning period correct?

    Send me a pm and we can swap information, I would love to swap banks from you as well. Thanks!

    Eric 

  • Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2015 · 7 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    So if they give you a line of credit. And you refinance to pull cash out. You can use that money to pay off the line of credit. But the line is still there. There line is not a lien on the property. It just resets back to 0. This gives you a nice fresh line to use for whatever you want. 

    Or it's just there for emergencies. Because banks want to loan to people who don't need loans. If something bad happens and you go to a bank for a line they won't give it to you. But if you get it while things are good then it will be there when you need fast cash for whatever...closing, repairs, cash purchase, or renovations. 

    I should start calling everybody on my list on Monday. I'll shoot you some stuff when I get it. 

    Jason

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 19 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    I am going there the same thing.   What did you end up doing?https://www.biggerpockets.com/users/kilroywashere

  • Robert EllisBusiness Member
    Developer · Miami, FL · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Eric S.:

    Hello trying to figure out the best possible lending option. Scroll to the bottom if you just want help answer my question and not read all the extra info about the property. Forgive me in advance for any typos.

    Here are the facts I am contract with 10 unit all brick 3 story apt building 5 units are studios and 5 are 1 bedrooms located in one Columbus Ohio most vibrant neighborhoods  Victorian Village/Short North area for 599k with 4k closing costs. 

    The building is grossly under rented, currently at $5300 per month gross with 1 bedrooms average 1 bedrooms at $650 and studios for $400. Average rents for the area would be $550 for studios $750 for one bedrooms as is with no renovations. Tenants pay all utilities with $25 dollar add to rent for each unit for water.  Two lower units have central ac the rest have window units. 

    It has been cited by the city and Victorian Village commission (historical commission) for couple things major ones box gutter and cracking concrete near the fire escape stairwell. I plan redoing 200 linear feet of the box gutters, re pouring the concrete, patch fire escape and repaint, and re build bowing wall at back of it. Also fix columns near front porch as well as few other things. Quotes from previous owner bring in at 80k. My quotes closer to 60k. I plan on investing about 120k interior.  New hallways floor painting and lighting. Interior my goal is to renovate 6 units completely. Other 4 adding some updates here and there. My goal is be able to standardized units have slim dishwasher, combo washer/dryer, and as close to full size fridge as possible.  Currently there is one set of coin op laundry on first floor for the entire building. 

    Questions about renovations?

    Does anyone have experience with using all in one washer/dryer combos? I feel like I could them fit and work in most units especially one bedroom I wouldnt need run any 220v amps or much additional plumbing. Also will only be allowing one person to be living there in each unit so not like many loads will be done on a weekly basis. 

    Also because I don't want blow out many walls. What are peoples experiences with PTAC and Mitsubishi units? My first impression was PTAC but the 1 bedroom units, the bedrooms are separated from the living space so would need two for those. Also some bathrooms have base heaters. That is why I thought about Mitsubishi units. 

    On to my loan options. 

    I have loan commitment letter. Where we have already agreed to 80% LTV on total acquisition cost of 700k. 1/2 point closing costs and 4.25 interest fixed for 5 years and 25 year amortization. No other closing costs except appraisal fee which I already paid.

    600k for purchase and 100k that will be in escrow account to used for exterior code violations and interior deferred maintenance etc. I like the escrow option vs construction because dont have to worry about draws, fees, inspections etc. I originally asked for 50k more because at time I was only going to renovate the studios and few things to the 1 bedroom units. I was told by the loan officer that is the most they can do but depending on the appraisal can request more.  We were both expecting the appraisal to come back very strong and it indeed it did. Just received it. Mind the appraisial was done by very reputable commercial appraisal group.

    As is value nothing done came back at...

    700k!

    Proposing 150k worth of renovations and stabilized after 12 months with proposed rents of $750 for studios and $900 for 1 bedrooms. Came back at....

    1.12 million

    Now this was more than both the Bank and I thought so I feel I def have some leverage to work against them and since I already paid for the appraiser and can take it to anywhere I want. 

    This is what the bank came back with they will not increase the amount in escrow, but after code violations are complete they will give me 100k line of credit for prime plus 1%. 

    Option 1

    Push for additional amount for escrow having 150k instead of 100k. They didnt want do this but now that I have appraisal in hand may be different.

    Pros - No draws, or title fees, its in escrow by third party and anything I don't use just gets check written back to me. So if I come under budget by 40k thats a check I can have to put down on another property or do work on another property with etc.

    Cons - Paying for something I may not need? Larger monthly payment and down payment. 

    Option 2

    100k in escow and 100k  line of credit.

    Pros - Pay for only what I need. Can use it whenever I want

    Cons - Two different payments, as of now slightly higher interest rate. Payment is not amortized over 25 years believe will be 10 year fixed, need to confirm this. 

    Option 3 construction loan

    Pros- Interest only for 9 months. This is big becasue I am going to renovate unit by unit renovating 2 - 3 units at a time at most. So I can still be collecting rent for from other 8 units while only paying interest. I estimate I can pocket additional 30k since I will not have mortgage payment. 

    Cons- Higher interest rate 4.75%, have to pay additional fees, title fees, draws, inspections etc. 

    Lastly I am still talking to other banks and now that I have appraisal in hand would help when trying find other financing options..  I still have 45 days before I need to close and can request extension but would need to pay $100 per day for an extension. 

    Any advice on any option would be helpful to include anything I should consider that I may have missed. 

    Thank you bigger pocket community! Forgive me for typos I typed this in a hurry.

    Eric 

     Eric, who'd did you end up using for this purchase for funding? I know the property you are talking about on Neil Ave in Vic Village (close to downtown columbus ). It looks like you already closed on it. Awesome job!

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2014 · 15 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    Eric- I have a hybrid washer/dryer. It does not work well. The washing is fine.. but it takes 3 hours to dry which waste a lot of electric

  • Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2014 · 73 posts · 22 votes
    9y
    Great job indeed! I'm curious about your lender as well. P.s. I have heard poor things about combo washer dryers. I would look into the apartment style ones that are attached up and down but not actually combo.
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