Cash Flow AND Appreciation areas???

Cash Flow AND Appreciation areas???

Queens, NY · Member since 2014 · 153 posts · 64 votes
I'm considering investing out of state, and from what I've read here on BP, the best cash flow areas are in or around cities in the Midwest or South. Cities like Kansas City, Indianapolis, and Milwaukee frequently come up as great cash flow areas, but always come with the caveat that in 10 years the properties will be worth basically the same when adjusting for inflation. My understanding is that these areas have healthy and diverse economies, stable populations, and strong rental demand, all of which create high cap rates and above average rental returns. My question is, where can I find cash flow AND appreciation? Cities like NYC where I live are highly speculative in nature, meaning the only way to make money is through appreciation (there is no cash flow when cap rates are 3% and rent to purchase price ratios are below 0.3%. I know some people did really well in the last 6-7 years in several Texas cities (Austin/Dallas/Houston etc) where they enjoyed cash flow and then a sudden boom of appreciation. But I'm assuming I missed the boat on those cities at this point in the RE cycle. Has anyone done some good research and is willing to share predictions for which cities might be the next Austin/Dallas? Or can anyone make the case for a particular city as being strong for both cash flow and appreciation? Or am I searching for a unicorn?
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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
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Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
9y

You can't have your cake and eat it too typically. A property will typically give you one or the other, but not both. Buy some properties for cash flow, and buy others for appreciation so you diversify your risk and get a little of both.

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  • Investor · Greenville, SC · Member since 2016 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    9y

    @Eric A. I like this one as well (see below).  You can search based on different criteria (time period, state specific, all states, etc.)  There are different versions of these types of projections on the web based primarily on census bureau data and most of them have the same suspects towards the top of the list.

    http://www.bizjournals.com/bizjournals/news/2016/1...

    @Cindy Donley Las Vegas is an international resort city and the population is growing to support the growing entertainment industry.  What can you say...people like to eat, shop and party when they get a few bucks in their pocket and, contrary to popular belief, there is much more to do in Las Vegas than gamble.  It is also a popular retirement city.  It's my understanding that Utah's growth is primarily driven by high tech and oil and gas but I'm not familiar beyond that high level.

  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 16 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    Thanks @Mike Dymski, maybe would could say these areas are to be the next "Florida" as far as retirement and such.

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 24 votes
    9y

    Great tip @Account Closed! Thanks!!

  • Shawn AckermanPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Mid West, East Coast · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Eric A. If your looking for cash flow, the Mid-West is where it is my friend.  I'm from NYC and I invest in Milwaukee WI where $300 - $450 in cash flow is not uncommon.  Cap rates in the mid to high teens and relatively low cost of entry.  Best of luck to you!

  • Queens, NY · Member since 2014 · 153 posts · 64 votes
    9y
    Thanks for the tip Shawn Ackerman what is the out of pocket investment to get that 300-450 / month? Meaning what's the cash on cash return?
  • Shawn AckermanPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Mid West, East Coast · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Eric A.  The example that I gave is based on duplexes that I own and keep in mind that it is not per unit but per property.  40K all in will get you a Duplex that yield this sort of return day in and day out. I'll send you an example through PM. 

  • Shawn AckermanPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Mid West, East Coast · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Eric A. Just sent you an example of a duplex I purchased in September which I paid below the 40K threshold and just had it appraised for 40% higher than what I purchased it for.  Cap rate is 15% and yields $485 per month in cash flow.

  • Contractor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2016 · 142 posts · 52 votes
    9y
    Shawn Ackerman would you be able to shoot that my way as well, I am interested in taking a look at it
  • Shawn AckermanPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Mid West, East Coast · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @JOE MILL interested to learn more about how you turn 5% cap rates into 10% cap rates in Brooklyn NY in 24 months.  @Eric A. the numbers are the numbers.  You cannot fit a square peg into a round hole.  New investors should never buy based on the future.  You make your money when you buy property.  Hope to see you next week.  Best of luck to you!

  • Shawn AckermanPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Mid West, East Coast · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Tyler 

    @Tyler Mutch I sent you a PM earlier today.  Be well.

  • Kevin PolitePro Member
    Investor · Decatur Atlanta, GA · Member since 2011 · 610 posts · 232 votes
    9y

    Interesting thread here. I would like to think I'm investing for both and so far have had been doing so. It seems all of the higher casher flowing properties are lower income areas. No problem with that, but if there is NO appreciation doesn't that mean at some point it will go from bad to worse and you're stuck with a property that doesn't cashflow anymore? Of course, it could be the opposite. As @John Ford mentioned the Beltline in Atlanta, I know some guys that bought over here years and years ago and man, talk about appreciation and they're cash flowing like crazy.  But that was more risk and then I would take and more headache than what I'd want. These were some seriously depressed areas back then. But I guess that's what high risk/high reward is all about. 

  • Investor · Binyamina, Israel · Member since 2016 · 73 posts · 12 votes
    9y

    @Kevin Polite Which areas do you recommand to invest in Atlanta for buy && hold at the moment?

  • Real Estate Investor · Philadephia, PA · Member since 2016 · 214 posts · 36 votes
    9y

    @Shawn Ackerman Very interested in your business model you mentioned.

    Cash flow is easy to understand,just would like to know how to get the property apprised 40% higher then what you paid?

    Would like to know more detail if you like to share, thank you.

  • Shawn AckermanPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Mid West, East Coast · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Vincent Chen shoot me a PM to get started. 

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