First Deal Frustration: What did I do wrong?

First Deal Frustration: What did I do wrong?

McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes

So here's my situation. Looking for some feedback on what I can do differently next time.

I found a multi-unit in a town where I grew up. Five units total, four currently rented. Vacancy rate is low. After getting some really good advice I ran my numbers with the Rental Calculator and I would have been clearing about $900 a month cashflow.

I did my homework, visited some smaller banks. I talked with a great resource I met here on Bigger Pockets.

The property

It is listed at 89,000. We found that it was under contract at one point back in October. We asked the realtor what happened, and he willfully told us that two days before closing the buyer backed out because they didn't have enough funds to close. He also said the property appraised for 85,000.

I visited the property and it wasn't in terrible shape. The apartments were clean, and the buildings maintenance guy walked us through. The biggest red flag was there was water in the basement. The sellers disclosed this, and the guy told us this has been going on for 20 years. I believed him for whatever reason and was willing to still proceed.

* Major footnote after first reading the seller disclosure I discovered the house was owned by my moms first cousin. I originally reached because of this to see if seller finance would be considered. This got shot down.

The Finance

So like I said I visited some banks, tried to understand what my options were. Really the same across the board. 25% down. I did talk to one bank that would do 20%. I have the cash for the down payment, but it wouldn’t leave me in a comfortable spot. So, one of the awesome folks on here I’ve met helped me work something out. He would finance 90% of the deal, I’d put down 10k with him. 12% interest and then I could re-fi out in 12 months.

The Offer

So, after running comps, I submitted an all-cash offer of 65k. I put contingencies on a inspections, and receiving the security deposits from the current tenants. Probably the wrong move, but I 1.) don't think the property is worth 89k. 2.) Know, according to the realtor, that it only appraised at 85.

Probably not a great first offer.

The rejection

The Sellers rejected it. In nice enough terms they said the offer was unreasonable. They said they would consider a lower offer, but they would not consider contingencies. I decided not to counter because I am not a seasoned enough investor to take on a 5 unit without an inspection.

So back to square one. This would have been my first deal, and I probably got too excited. I am a bit frustrated, but I did learn a ton, and honestly that’s better than nothing.

Any advice on how a more seasoned investor would handle? I would love to hear.

Thanks!

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Investor · Columbus, GA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y

Those numbers are incorrect. 2175- 1614= 826. 826 x 12 = 9912 NOI. At a 6% cap rate that would give a value of $165,200. If you bought it for $85K, that puts it at an 11.6% cap rate. This means it's in a pretty bad area of town, but it is a great return. I would buy it, fix the water problem, and make gradual improvements for the next 10 years, then sell it for $165,000 after enjoying the income for 10 years, then buy something better.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Gerrardstown, WV · Member since 2016 · 3 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    As a Realtor I've seen the amount of times that buyers use the inspection to renegotiate - which is ALWAYS! A prepared seller knows this - why accept a lowball offer then get beat up again after inspections? And get some education or a mentor re: NOI, etc. It will protect you in the future.

  • Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Lemme' put this into my spreadsheet... 

    1. 5 unit building
    2. Standing water in the basement 
    3. Significant market time to the public on the MLS
    4. Declining neighborhood
    5. Purchase price $85k
    6. Insufficient reserves for a 25% down payment
    7. No REI experience
    8. No stated value add opportunity

    Spreadsheet says: "Divide by zero error"

    I'm the first one to acknowledge every person's market, strategy, and definition of success is different, but man ... this just sounds like a terrible, terrible introduction to REI. I own and manage enough small MFRs that I would never recommend something like this to someone who's undercapitalized and lacking experience.

    But, if you go for it against this advice, I'll cheer you on like no other.  I always root for underdogs.  :)

  • Investor · Mount Laurel, NJ · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 0 votes
    9y

    I wouldn't say that you ever "lost the deal" . . . No deal is lost until the property is sold to someone else.  You can't lose a deal by making a low offer either.  You can only be hurting yourself if your first offer is accepted.  When your first offer is accepted, there is no way of knowing if you could have gotten the property for less. 

    I can understand the seller not wanting to accept an offer with contingencies after they got burned once before.  What I don't understand is why you couldn't get an inspection done before submitting your offer.  The water in the basement is bad news and could easily mean a major problem and could cost tens of thousands to repair.  If that's the case then this wasn't even a "deal" at the $65,000 that you offered.  This would be a reason that the seller wouldn't consider financing the deal. 

    Remember . . . It's not a "deal" unless it works at your numbers.  If the property is still on the market ask if you can get a foundation contractor in to see the basement and get an idea about the damage and the repairs needed.  If you can't, walk away and be happy while you do it.  If they do not allow you get a proper inspection, it may that they will need to disclose any report that you provide to OTHER potential buyers.  If they already suspect $30,000 in foundation repair, they don't want to KNOW that it is there.

  • Real Estate Investor · Saskatoon, Saskatchewan · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    If your wife is the buyers agent,  can you not just view it again, and have a foundation expert accompany you at that time to look at the water issue? you can do this instead of having the inspection as a contingency.

    Either way I would suggest that the water in the basement shouldnt be left as is, and is likely a repair in 5 digit numbers at least,  Im guessing you wont have the reserves set out for that large repair off the start since you dont have 20% or 25% down

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    I was all set to read another real estate book but this thread just keeps getting more informative.

    Looking at the title I probably made it a little more dramatic than it really is. 

    Honestly I'm glad they didn't accept the offer because I think I would have put myself in a bad spot. It dropped to 4 degrees the other day here in Pittsburgh and all I could think of is how that basement is probably a skating rink.

    I'm going to respond to some question  posed here in a bit.

     Thanks again to everyone for their advice!

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Steve Vaughan I am def kicking myself for maybe not making it more of a eye-appealing number. I tried the seller financing route and it got rejected.

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @William Kwong yea when they nixed contingencies I was taken back for sure. Another contingency they declined was giving the up the security deposits for the current tenants. I forgot to mention that.

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Jennifer Cornforth thanks, that is a great point. I guess I was hoping to get anything started with the offer, but it may have been too low to start.

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @William Kwong I own my home currently so the FHA route is out for me. I have thought about that for a friend of mine who wants to get into real estate. Can you get an FHA on a 4-unit?

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Wendell De Guzman thanks so much for your breakdown. 

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Shawn Ginder thanks man. I love the analogy. The no inspection thing was probably the deal breaker for me.

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Doug Hurst man that formula is going to stay with me. From what the seller has said the place has always rented, I believe them. But like you said, it's really my big picture view. Thanks again for the calculations.

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Derek Christian Thanks. Did you update the property after you bought it?

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Justin R. lol I think my dad said the same thing.

  • Levi T.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Derek Rocco:

    The Sellers rejected it. In nice enough terms they said the offer was unreasonable. They said they would consider a lower offer, but they would not consider contingencies. I decided not to counter because I am not a seasoned enough investor to take on a 5 unit without an inspection.

    So what's the problem? That's like deal heaven. I'd be all over it, and picking it up for pennies on the dollar if someone responded to one of my offers like that. I'd hit them with an offer and close so fast it would take them a month just to realize they should have taken my first offer.

    Go back and make an AS IS offer, but give yourself a 30 day DD period, yup your going to sneak your inspection in under the DD period when you "walk the property" to see if it's 100% to your liking, if it don't pass your liking, get he hell out. The security deposits are peanuts, I have plenty of deals that LL's said they spent it, or never really got it. I don't care, it works out to about 10% of the deal value in most cases. anyways add that into your price.. this is why your winning on this one. You go back and calculate all that in along with added risk, then make a new offer, 20%, 30%, hell 50% lower than your current, do your DD/study period on the leases, and taking a look at the property with your wife and the inspector or a contractor if you must. Win-win, you got a huge discount because someone did not want to deal with a inspection and any cost that could be taken off the offer price. So slice it in half, look around the property (inside and out), go to closing. Done done!

    I bought an apartment building once like that, and got it for about 40% less than I had offered the first time around. Hell of a deal!

  • Real Estate Investor · Kilauea, HI · Member since 2016 · 7 posts · 2 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Derek Rocco:

    @Jennifer Cornforth thanks, that is a great point. I guess I was hoping to get anything started with the offer, but it may have been too low to start.

     Yeah, norms vary depending on where you are in the country, but most decent realtors won't let their clients list things for far more money than the property is worth. In cases where I've seen houses listed for way more than any sane person would pay, I've been especially hesitant to get involved. I figure that either the owner or the agent are delusional. Best to let them figure it out on their own and drop the price. THEN, once there's been a price drop, you can come in still lower. But I'm very gunshy—I never want to buy a property unless I feel that other people would also want to buy it. Because if I ever wanted to sell it, especially sell it fast, it needs to be a property that's desirable.

    Back in Seattle, there were always great deals on houses along major roads and at busy corners. One could have put in a lowball offer and maybe even get accepted. But then *I* would be stuck with a property I couldn't unload. 

    Anyway, that's my uber conservative take on it. But as a comment or pointed out above, I'I've only ever bought in hot or stubborn markets. I don't know what goes on in the middle of the country. :)

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Levi T. oh thats hilarious. So offer less than what I did before, but with no contingencies? My only real lose would be any hand money I put down which isn't much. Just when I was talking myself out of this one haha. Thanks man.

  • Levi T.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Derek Rocco:

    @Levi T. oh thats hilarious. So offer less than what I did before, but with no contingencies? My only real lose would be any hand money I put down which isn't much. Just when I was talking myself out of this one haha. Thanks man.

     Yes offer a hell of a lot less, if they are that hot to trot, you could get a steal of a deal. BUT, figure how to work in an inspection with that AS IS offer. For example, I personally walk all the properties I buy AS IS, look at them inside and out with the owners, that's my inspection "that's not an inspection", I just want to take a look at what I'm buying before the ink is put on paper. I've been doing this a while so it's real easy for me to spot most things... it's not hard to tell if you have a roof leak or something like that. If in doubt, just bring your guy along with you, and pretend they are your employee, business partner, friend. You may not get to go running around crawl spaces and attics, but you will get a good idea if it's a good fit for you. Good luck!

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Levi T. thanks man, great stuff.

  • Investor · Fairfax, VA · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    So it sounds to me as if the sellers weren't too offended by the number itself, but more-so with the contingencies? If that's the case, you may be close in terms of the numbers, what you can do in that situation is as follows (keep in mind my experience is limited to single family residencies so this may be a bit different with commercial properties):

    1) Take a look at the contract and make sure the offer is contingent on your agreement of the existing leases in place. Most contracts that I have seen automatically include this provision for properties with existing tenants in place, so you'll need to agree to honor/inherit existing leases and that process actually creates sort of an automatic contingency that you don't even have to ask for - double check your contract to make sure that's the case and the timeline for it. 

    Submit a new contract with a similar or slightly higher offer with no contingencies this time (assuming you have to accept the lease agreements in place on the units). Have an inspector scheduled and ready to go immediately post contract acceptance, you can start this process in advance of actual contract ratification to ensure you move quick. If the inspection comes back and changes your position on the property, deny the terms of the existing lease agreements and your out of the contract minus the cost of the inspection. 

    2) Depending on the earnest money involved, if it's not much, just put another offer on with no contingencies, pay for a proper inspection and if it doesn't make sense post-inspection pull out and consider the loss in earnest money / home inspection the cost of doing business. It may be a small price to pay for a the chance of getting a property with numbers like this in today's market. 

    Hope that helps.    

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Nabeel Haider really interesting. My only question is when do I get the inspector in there?

  • Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 6 votes
    9y
  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Steve Salvini thanks buddy

  • McMurray, PA · Member since 2016 · 50 posts · 17 votes
    9y

    @Nabeel Haider just went back and read that line in our first offer. Can't thank you enough for pointing that out.

  • Investor · Jackson, MS · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 769 votes
    9y

    My gut feeling is that if a seller would settle for a cheaper price but doesn't want contingencies, he has got something to hide. The only thing you did wrong IMO is imagine that the first property you make an offer on is going to end up as a sale. Don't be afraid to walk away. 

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