Investor 路 Miami, FL 路 Member since 2016 路 100 posts 路 22 votes
I've put in offers for over 15 houses and still haven't had an offer accepted. I'm offering cash, 5 day inspections, full price (and sometimes more on some of the houses) and still no luck.
Maybe somebody can shed some light on what's going on or what to expect???
I'm buying in the Miami and Broward areas.
Thanks!
Yoni Ramras Follow up on the houses that you didn't get, meaning check what they sold for and how long it took etc. Perhaps the properties are selling much higher over asking (as some banks/agents under price to create a bidding war on seeing how high people will pay)
Or get a more aggressive realtor ..
Investor 路 Lebanon, OH 路 Member since 2016 路 144 posts 路 87 votes
9y
Yoni Ramras
I scanned a lot of the responses and most seem to focus on things the realtor can do to assist. By all means, you need to have a good realtor. And there are certainly things that your realtor can do or advise you to do to assist. However, I think you will eventually figure out that it's something you are/are not doing vs the root cause being your agent.
If you haven't already done so, I would follow some of the properties you lost. What did they sell for? Was it higher than you offer? Was it an investor that won? Did they flip it? If so, what did they resell for? Reach out to them and see if you can find out how much they put into the renovations. Then - figure out how that compared to your estimates.
I have the same issue with MLS properties. I never win. I still submit offers here and there, but it's not a big focus for me anymore. I learned that I am way too conservative to compete on the open market. In addition, I want higher profits than a lot of my competition. Ultimately, I don't want to change my strategy in a way that would allow me to be more competition. Therefore, I gave up on MLS properties and instead focus on off market deals.
Good luck!
Michelle
Real Estate Investor 路 Sunny Isles Beach, FL 路 Member since 2013 路 788 posts 路 333 votes
9y
@Yoni R. We've sold two of our recent fix-and-flips in the Miami area this month. We immediately had offers above list, less than 24 hours. In assessing the offers, we were looking at cash/financing, proof of funds, inspection/financing/appraisal contingencies, as well offer prices. In both deals, we didn't accept the highest offer. In one case, an above list offer ($5,000 less than competing offers) that had no appraisal contingency we accepted, and in the other, an all cash no contingency offer at list price which was less than the conventional offers.
Things are hopping in South Florida. Properties are consistently selling over list. It's not helpful for securing deals on the MLS, but it does help to sell them fast.
To be honest, I won't even submit offers on MLS properties within the first 4 weeks - and only properties that require substantial rehab. You're just competing with drunk buyers, unethical wholesalers who can't close, and individuals who won't be able to close. The opportunity is to sweep in once the first wave back-out and save the day.
Investor 路 Miami, FL 路 Member since 2015 路 329 posts 路 124 votes
9y
@Peter Sik no I mean the seller pays 6% to the listing agent rather than the listing and buying agent splitting it.
@Russell Brazil noted re: ethical issue, and I totally agree, although consider the market in question. Miami is a city built on cocaine, corruption and money laundering. The market is poisoned by that sort of corruption and it happens every day. The likelihood of something like that getting a licensee in trouble, is minimal, considering the amount of unethical business that occurs in general. It's a sad truth and it's the reason Yoni is having issues getting a deal.
Real Estate Broker 路 Indianapolis, IN 路 Member since 2014 路 3k+ posts 路 2k+ votes
9y
I hate to be this guy... But I'm going to do it.
You're in Miami which is an incredibly hot Real Estate market right now. If you're hoping to land "deals" on the MLS you're going to end up very frustrated. Most of the good deals are being sold as pocket listings or off market. If you really want to get some deals done this year you're going to have to get inventive. I'm in Indianapolis yet there are RARELY good deals on the MLS here. Our Average DOM is way higher than yours. We also have less competition. As well as more inventory.
You should research direct to seller marketing. (Don't waste your time of money on post cards.)
You could also reach out to some of the top agents in the market you want to be in and show them your POF. Let them know that you're wanting to flip houses and if they can help you find a house you'll give them the sell side when it's done.
Rental Property Investor 路 Austin, TX 路 Member since 2017 路 254 posts 路 265 votes
9y
Don't know what you personally are or are not doing but:
- do have a history of low balling?
- have you been difficult to work with?
- have you been under contract and backed out for unusaul reason or get cold feet and bail?
These things matter, if the agent or broker thinks they are wasting their time or that you aren't a serious buyer they may begin to tune you out. Your reputation matters a lot in this industry.
Specialist 路 Grand Rapids, MI 路 Member since 2016 路 1k+ posts 路 611 votes
9y
Yoni Ramras I have had this happen before where my agent said he was submitting offers but he was not because he thought they were to low. Call the other agent a few times to double check. Also 15 offers is nothing. Twice in last 3 years I have submitted over 50 and 80 offers. Just recently I have had 3 out of my last 5 offered. Its a numbers game so keep doing it and they will average out.
Investor 路 Marietta, GA 路 Member since 2014 路 226 posts 路 97 votes
9y
Sometimes it takes large escrow ($10,000), no inspection (take your contractor with you when you see the house), putting the offer in with the listing agent so that they get both sides of the commission.
Investor 路 Miami, FL 路 Member since 2016 路 100 posts 路 22 votes
9y
@Bruce Petersen I haven't been difficult at all. For the simple reason that besides seeing most of the properties within hours after being listed on the MLS and immediately submitting the offers with all required documentation, I haven't really had too much interaction besides that.
My offers are usually market value offers or above. If I see the property too far off I just don't offer...
Investor 路 Miami, FL 路 Member since 2016 路 100 posts 路 22 votes
9y
@Kalimah Jenkins My offers include an escrow of 10k and also a pre-approval letter (even though I buy in cash). I have a good team set up including a very good attorney.
Investor 路 Miami, FL 路 Member since 2016 路 100 posts 路 22 votes
9y
@Kalimah Jenkins I haven't tried dealing directly with listing agents. I think that will be my next step. Wonder if that will get things moving if the agent can take the full 6%.
Yoni Ramras drop your realtor, go straight to the listing agent and offer them the full 6% commission. That should motivate them to get you in "first place."
Not as effective as one might think. One of the things most real estate commissions audit for n hot markets is if the seller is being stared towards the best offer for them, or towards a dual agent offer. Many unethical agents lose their licenses, end up with huge financial liability because of things like that...and that scares off a lot of listing agents from acting unethically.
Unfortunately, in Miami, acting unethically is the norm, not the exception. The consequences may make agents reconsider in other markets, but not here.
If Yoni wants to improve his odds, I still think this is the best way to go.
Investor 路 Miami, FL 路 Member since 2016 路 100 posts 路 22 votes
9y
@Ryan Dossey Most of the properties I am offering on are from the MLS. I can't understand why I can't land a deal on the MLS. What's wrong with the MLS. Somebody is getting the deal on the MLS. Why not me?
I have thought a lot about direct marketing. Intersection signs, mailing letters to specific neighborhoods etc...
Investor 路 Marietta, GA 路 Member since 2014 路 226 posts 路 97 votes
9y
@Yoni R. Also if you think it's a good deal and can support it, come in strong AND go some amount over list in your first offer to avoid the H&B crap which I totally hate.
Wholesaler 路 Cincinnati, OH 路 Member since 2017 路 2 posts 路 0 votes
9y
I am a reo broker including Fannie Mae direct and have sold close to 2000 reo properties .Trust me when I say that 90% of realtors don't know or understand selling Bank owned homes. I recommend finding an agent that works reo. Many say they do but when the rubber meets the road they lack experience at writing them correctly and or communicating with the listing agent.
My advice would be to vet the agent well and have them show you their previous sales from the mls and prove their name was on them as purchasers agent.
Wholesaler 路 Cincinnati, OH 路 Member since 2017 路 2 posts 路 0 votes
9y
By the way to the gentleman that writes a lot of contracts and has to back out of many because of more work than was thought after inspections.
That process will catch up with you by the way of reputation with agents and lenders.
Listing agents receive negative scores for deals that get busted and its a lot of time and work for the asset managers and they have long memories as do the listing agents...
Real Estate Agent 路 Miami, FL 路 Member since 2017 路 506 posts 路 205 votes
9y
Maybe time to move onto a realtor who can find off market properties? And, to reiterate with what was said earlier: unethical (& illegal in Florida) for the agent to push an offer strictly on their commission desires. Are you comfortable having that kind of person represent YOUR interests? good agent should have the relationships, prescience & expertise necessary to put you in the first position.
Rental Property Investor 路 Gilbert, AZ 路 Member since 2016 路 3k+ posts 路 4k+ votes
9y
@Yoni Ramras What are the ways you are finding properties? Because my time to find properties is very limited do to traveling back and forth from Gilbert, Arizona, to Burbank, California, and having a full therapy practice, I have to rely on others to help me find properties. I partnered up with a good buddy of mine who is a realtor @Jason Moss who has experience with real estate investing. We find properties through 3 main sources 1) wholesalers, 2) Realtor.com/Zillow.com/MLS, 3) leads from partner's marketing. I am on 5 or 6 wholesaler lists and I have gotten to know the wholesalers through talking with them on the phone and buying properties from them. When we get a list sent out I will give it a quick look over to see if any of the properties fall within our buying criteria and whichever ones do, I then send them over to my partner who will comp out the properties and will make the offers. I also spend the first 30 minutes of the day looking at realtor.com and zillow.com to see what the new properties that hit the market and then I send him the listings that I think looked like there is some spread and he makes offers that make sense with our numbers on the properties that make sense. He also finds deals through some leads he pays for.
Once we get a property under contract and our contractor has given us his bid (usually within 3-4 days to stay within the inspection period), we then contact one of our hard money lenders who will usually fund 80-100% depending on the purchase price (one of our hard money lenders will lend up to 100% on the lower end deals because of our relationship we have with him that has been built over time). When we close on the property my partner puts his commission back in the deal to help fund the rehab, closing costs, holding costs, etc. This is his contribution to the partnership. I will put up the money for the rehab or find the money from an investor. Then, after the property is rehabbed and sold, we split the profits 50/50.
Creating a system makes it so that making offers everyday is fairly easy. I spend about 1-2 hours a day either looking at listings, looking through emails from wholesalers, and talking with my realtor partner, contractors, or office assistant by phone.
I hope this post is more helpful than it is long. Good luck to you and as Rocky says in Rocky 6 "when life knocks you down, you got to get up and keep moving forward." He said something like like... its been awhile.
Yoni Ramras drop your realtor, go straight to the listing agent and offer them the full 6% commission. That should motivate them to get you in "first place."
This is really the best way especially for an experienced buyer and investor. The seller's agent has so much more to gain by selling a particular house. There is also so much that is lost in communication when there is so many middlemen. The lack of communication is very apparent by the fact that the OP has been through 15 offers and doesn't know why his offers aren't being accepted.
I'm from Bear, Delaware and i have been placing offer after offer on a plethora of properties within the area with conventional loan pre-approval and 20% down. Let me tell you all this. There are sharks out there who are throwing hard cash on the table and and purchasing properties regardless of their condition. It's almost like a mafia is running within our area and gulping any for sale, short sale, FHA property or anything that even looks half way like a house. I swear in God's name i have been so darn frustrated with their cheap tactics of throwing hard cash on the table and stealing the deal that i abhor these investors. What gets me the nausea