Negotiating our 1st deal - Counter Offer Advice Needed

Negotiating our 1st deal - Counter Offer Advice Needed

Investor · Warren County, MO · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 4 votes

We are downsizing our home to increase our buying power (and simplify life a bit).  We will be living in this property (3 bed, 1 bath, 1100 sqft) but have decided that whatever property we purchase will have the ability to cash flow if we need to live in a different property in the future. We are not attached to this house emotionally. So even though we are looking at it to live in we are evaluating it as a rental property. 

MY QUESTIONS - Fannie mae has asked for our highest and best by May 2nd, is there a strategy to win in this type of negotiation? What is a reasonable highest and best offer in this situation if we still want a decent ROI and Cash flow?

The Specs:

Fannie Mae Homepath Property  - First look expires May 2. 

Currently not livable because HVAC and plumbing are not in working order. 

59,900 List Price

90,000 Realtor Provided ARV

37,500 our cash offer (no lending because it's not liveable)

40-45k - Repair estimate (roof+double layer removal, foundation and sump pump, asbestos siding removal/replacement, HVAC replacement including about 40% of ductwork, electrical panel replacement, plumbing updated from cast iron, complete kitchen and bath, chimney removal, 1100 sq ft flooring, all interior doors and hardware, single garage door, windows and 5 exterior doors, yard drainage issues and tree removal, drywall repair and other finishes, possible mold remediation)

$345 Expenses (excluding mortgage) 

$950 Monthly Rent 

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Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
9y

@Rebecca Bauer @Christopher Phillips If you have asbestos issues don't forget about the fun of lead-based paint remediation.  Either through encapsulation or abatement you're going to pay a nice little premium.  With your list is sounds like you're pretty much buying a shell.  And with all that you're digging into I'd guess you'll run into a few more bumps along the way.

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  • Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Rebecca Bauer

    Your repair list sounds more like $60,000 -$80,000.

    Just tossing out a few numbers:

    Roof $8K - $10K

    HVAC $6K (just to replace unit)

    Elec. Panel $1.6K

    Kitchen $15K

    Bathroom $9K

    Flooring $3K

    Doors $2K

    Tree removal $3K

    Asbestos siding cover up with Vinyl $7K (more to remove it).

    Mold remediation ?

    Landscaping issues?

    Drywall and paint ?

  • Investor · Warren County, MO · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    Hmmm... With those numbers they should pay us to take the house. Thank you very much for the insight. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Rebecca Bauer @Christopher Phillips If you have asbestos issues don't forget about the fun of lead-based paint remediation.  Either through encapsulation or abatement you're going to pay a nice little premium.  With your list is sounds like you're pretty much buying a shell.  And with all that you're digging into I'd guess you'll run into a few more bumps along the way.

  • Investor · Warren County, MO · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 4 votes
    9y

    Thanks, the windows and trim are all stained wood and not painted but the soffits could be an issue. 

  • Investor · Hyattsville, MD · Member since 2012 · 822 posts · 441 votes
    9y

    you'll encounter the best and highest gig from many sellers. You pretty much have to bid the highest you are willing to bid where the numbers still make sense for you. sometimes that could be over asking, othertimes, not so much. lets assume you did your own research and confirmed the 90k ARV is correct, you could use the 70% ARV-repairs to get a good idea of your maximum allowable offer. You also need to identify your cashflow requirements to make it worthwhile to you, run the numbers in one of the BP spreadsheets, then see if the positive cashflow gets you a good ROI financed or unfinanced depending on your long-term goals for leverage. I agree, I dont see repairs less than 50k even if the stars align and you find a reasonable contractor to bid you that amount and also is high quality. I also don't recommend this level of rehab to be your very first project. You will likely have time and money overruns and its better to test your chops on a house that does not need lead/asbestos/mold remediation trifecta on the same property. These are all wildcards that usually you dont know how much it costs until you begin working on the project(there can be surprises behind walls). Even with quotes from your contractors...

    with the 70% rule: 90k ARV means you can bid 90x.75-50k repairs= 37.5k or

    90x.75-60k repairs (if your repair calculations turn out higher)= 27.5k

    I would say you shouldnt be bidding any higher than you already have, and if by luck you get that offer accepted, you get a contractor to bid on the project before the end of the inspection period to double check your repair figures are accurate. Back out of contract if the repairs are any higher than 50k... dont be afraid to walk away if the numbers dont work.... 

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    Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    FNMA is not going to discount a property even 10% during the First Look period no matter the condition.  They will open it up to investor bidding.  

  • Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Rebecca Bauer

    Which town is this in?

    I'm wondering about the $90,000 ARV. If that's correct it makes rough deal. If the ARV is more like $120,000, then things look a little different.

  • Investor · Warren County, MO · Member since 2017 · 5 posts · 4 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Christopher Phillips:

    @Rebecca Bauer

    Which town is this in?

    I'm wondering about the $90,000 ARV. If that's correct it makes rough deal. If the ARV is more like $120,000, then things look a little different.

     The realtor and I came up with the same number. Warrenton, MO is smack in the middle of St. Louis and Columbia. I am encouraged because the town is adding a new overpass and a Large Commerce center with plans for a new commercial/business route but none of that is there yet. Neighborhood is half renovated half dilapidated 1950's homes. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Rebecca Bauer

    Okay.

    Took a poke around. I see that relatively new homes are running around $120K - $135K.

    Older homes around $90k to $100k.

    I did find a recently rehabbed home for $112,000, that was 4 bed 2 bath, 2,032 sq ft.

    If you are stretching to get $90,000, even with $45,000 in renovations, it wouldn't make sense to buy for anywhere near list.

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