Bad experiences with others? Greedy People?

Bad experiences with others? Greedy People?

Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 27 posts · 9 votes

I have a friend who had a JV agreement with another wholesaler today but the JV was written up for the sale of a 2 for 1 deal which was written as 2 separate houses for 1 price. The total price was 250k (for BOTH properties) so the JV said anything over 250K (Thats what the owner gets) we split 50/50 and it was listed for 275k. My friend brought the cash buyer into the equation after several days of non-stop work bringing people to see the property (and he lives over an hour away) and having tons of leads.

A buyer stepped forward and agreed on only 1 of the 2 properties for 65k. The seller let them be sold separately after speaking with him so around 3pm today they all came to a mutual agreement, shook hands and 65k was set to be signed and earnest money deposited first thing monday morning (because its Saturday and everything was closed). The buyer was notified and happily agreed (as they did go back and fourth a little bit).

2 hours later, my friends partner who he has the JV with gets another offer for slightly higher (68k) and behind his back accepts his offer as well (since he didn't have to split it, so it was all profit for him). Now he approaches my friend who already told his buyer that the deal was set for Monday morning that there is another offer. So, Now he goes back on his original deal with him and leaves BOTH deals open and set for Monday so come Monday morning there will be someone thinking they are buying a property who will be very upset.

To make things WORSE, a 3rd deal came in about 30 mins after the second deal and its for 65k but the person bringing the cash buyer only wants $2500, where my friend who was in the JV for 50/50 would have made $7500.

My friend does NOT want to go back on his cash buyer so he offers part of his profit to match the second deal of 68K (so he would come off an additional $1500 from his profit and give it to the other wholesaler JUST to make the deal work and to keep everyone happy.

The wholesaler still leaves ALL 3 deals open for Monday morning and tells my friend that he will take HIS deal from his buyers at 65k but he will only give him $1800......which is just absolutely crazy from what the original deal was....and my friend said, well can you at least make it an even 2k and he says NO, and says the MOST I will give you is $1850, when the other best offer was the same 65k with paying $2500.

THIS WHOLESALER IS MAKING $15,000 PROFIT, But won't give my friend $2,000?

What do you guys think about this scenario. Has anything happened to you of this nature? Is my friend wrong for feeling some type of way since they originally agreed on his deal etc...? I would love to hear your feedback

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Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
9y

JV agreements to broker real estate without a license are illegal. See FL statutes. Violation could include 3rd degree felony charges. Using contracts to broker real estate without a license is illegal under the law. See 475. The ONLY way to legally "wholesale" is to OWN it or be licensed. Any other method is illegal.

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  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    JV agreements to broker real estate without a license are illegal. See FL statutes. Violation could include 3rd degree felony charges. Using contracts to broker real estate without a license is illegal under the law. See 475. The ONLY way to legally "wholesale" is to OWN it or be licensed. Any other method is illegal.

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Samuel Roth I have to admit I'm not the most empathetic person when it comes to wholesalers but: 1.) It doesn't sound like your friend met the threshold of helping both deals close (2 for 1 term you mentioned). 2.) The JV didn't get above $250K in terms of sales price. 3.) If 1 & 2 didn't happen then is your friend owed anything? 4.) It sounds like your friend didn't have the owner contact and may not have put down any EMD. Consequently, it sounds like the "seller" (the other wholesaler) just chose a different buyer. 5.) I guess they could both report each other for brokering without a license! There is some irony here about a wholesaler potentially signing a bad contract for a JV. Especially with wholesalers always telling the world how nobody forces the owner to sign and they are just good negotiators. Sounds like your friend (based on what you're saying) signed a bad JV agreement and got out-negotiated.
  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    @Andrew Johnson

    Unlicensed brokers are scammers breaking laws. I chuckle when one claims they were a victim. I turn in probably at least 5 a week for their BS games. Some are BP members and others use CL to broker without a license. Quite a few have gotten cease and desist letters from the state. I will NOT quit my fight against these FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS.

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @John Thedford No argument here, I just chose to focus my answer on the "contractor non-performance" side as it relates to "greed".  You had already hit the Florida statute in your reply.

  • Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 27 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    @John Thedford and @Andrew Johnson Both my friend and I are licensed. I am not sure about the other guy though. I recently got my license before I started any deals because I do not want to have any trouble. I personally know the owner of the school where I got my license. I wish you would write something OTHER then how good you are at turning people in for wholesaling. The fact that 85% of your posts and comments on others posts are all centered around that. Why don't you just leave folks alone and stop harassing them. They aren't harming you and unless you can address the users actual post, stop commenting about how bad and evil wholesalers are. This has been numerous times you have commented BLINDLY and ASSUMING on my posts alone when in fact I DO have a license, I just don't have it posted here. I Pay the same fees you do and I would appreciate if you never commented on anything of mine again. Thanks. 

  • Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    9y

    You are in shark infested waters in the co-wholesaling world.  The wild west with no barriers to entry and few ethics.  Most are focused on the 'easy money' and don't care who is in the way.

    To expand on @Account Closed 's point, you may try recording a Memorandum of Agreement on your next property.  This will alert title people there is something with you and the seller.  To get it cleared, the shade will have to compensate you.

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    @Samuel R.

    Funny how things change! This morning your profile said samuel roth. Now samuel r.
    I looked up licensing for all samuel roth...NONE SHOWN IN STATE DATABASE! This leads me back to wondering about my favorite phrase for unlicensed brokers skirting laws: FRAUDS AND SCAMMERS. 

    BTW--these are PUBLIC forums.

  • Spring, TX · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 203 votes
    9y

    He was also marketing the properties on here if you look at his marketplace posts :)

  • Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 27 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    I don't care what database you claim to look in. I HAVE a license. I don't need to prove anything to you or anyone else....and yes, I did post properties...is there something wrong with that?? 

  • Rental Property Investor · Arlington, VA · Member since 2016 · 23 posts · 30 votes
    9y
    John Thedford -- I appreciate the work some of you more experienced operators and BP posters do to keep this forum honest and above board. Thank you.
  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Samuel R. I believe I did give you specific feedback on your post about contract non-performance. Your friend signed a deal to sell 2 properties and 1 was sold. You said there was a $250K threshold and it wasn't met. Based on what you've said the terms of the contract were never met. You've responded to neither of those points and become myopic in your response instead. Neither of those points is predicated in any way on having a license, they are contract dependent. If you can't handle feedback that your friend may have signed a contract with bad terms, I don't know what to tell you. There is some irony about not liking any wholesaler negativity while you throw your friends JV partner (a wholesaler) under the bus as "greedy".
  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    @Kevin Coggins

    @Jason Ross

    I won't stand by and watch these players without speaking out. They have a sense of entitlement that they can break laws they don't agree with. 

    I wanted to work for FHP..but my day job I am stuck as a mall cop LOL!

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    For those wanting to check if someone is licensed:
    https://www.myfloridalicense.com/wl11.asp?mode=0&S...

    Not long ago a con posting on BP claimed he was licensed. When I stated his name did not appear his comment was pretty much the same as above:)

    I REALLY wonder if I hit a nerve when their name on their profile changes? I have to wonder what they have to hide. 

  • Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 27 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    @Andrew Johnson That other post was not toward you. I will not feed into anything else as it is out of my character, especially online. So, back to the original post, yes, he originally signed a JV agreement that was for 2 properties under one total price.

    Where he has the issue is that they all accepted my friend's cash buyer offer and so he had a conversation with the cash buyer on the phone right in front him (apparently) and everyone was in agreement and said to close first thing Monday morning. 

    My friend and I both operate to where a handshake and our word are just as good as a contract. I have ALWAYS been like that but I am quickly seeing that others are not, especially when money gets involved. I understand the situation where he got out offered etc...but if it were me, and I already accepted an offer, I wouldn't go back on my word and handshake. That's all. Just seeing if others have been in a similar situation etc... or if this is common in this world of Real Estate Investing. Thank you for the responses pertaining to the original posts. 

  • Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 27 posts · 9 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Steve Vaughan:

    You are in shark infested waters in the co-wholesaling world.  The wild west with no barriers to entry and few ethics.  Most are focused on the 'easy money' and don't care who is in the way.

    To expand on @Account Closed 's point, you may try recording a Memorandum of Agreement on your next property.  This will alert title people there is something with you and the seller.  To get it cleared, the shade will have to compensate you.

     Yes, I am realizing that and its unfortunate. I have never conducted business that way (outside of Real Estate, and I own several businesses) but from what I have seen with myself and others, its really cut throat. Just eye opening for me, nothing I cannot handle though. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Samuel R.:

    I don't care what database you claim to look in. I HAVE a license. I don't need to prove anything to you or anyone else....and yes, I did post properties...is there something wrong with that?? 

     SO--since you are a "licensee" CERTAINLY you KNOW by law you must post your name AND brokerage in all real estate advertisements? 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    9y

    @Samuel R.  I am not getting it .

    your both licensed agents.. and you have a listing agreement with the seller correct that dictates your profit or commission on the deal... thinking net listing are illegal in most states..  so you just put 15k as your commission in the listing agreement then . you both co broker it ..

    your broker gets the commissions the other agent puts his commission demand in for whatever you agree to as a co broker fee.

    UNLESS of course your not disclosing to the seller how much your making.. and doing this as a principal.. then in that case does not matter if your licensed or not.. still probably a violation of FLA law if you do it that way...

    so did you guys have a listing or did you not ?

  • Real Estate Investor · Encinitas, CA · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Samuel R. Taking the wholesale discussion out of it, it's no accident that offers aren't accepted until documents (these days) are e-signed.  With a handshake the original seller, wholesaler 1, wholesaler 2, etc. can't demand performance from the buyer.  It's why so many agents are sending Docusigns in literally minutes (not hours).  Personally, I think it's also why you see 24 hour expirations on written deal terms even after a verbal offer has been accepted.  

    To throw out another example, nobody takes a tenants word (or handshake) that they are going to pay the rent, stay for 12 months, not damage the property, etc.  They have a signed lease agreement.  Another would be that nobody enters into a PM agreement with verbal talks on what is (and isn't) paid for by the owner.  There's a signed agreement with a listed fee structure.  Both are real estate examples. 

    I guessing you'd never advise taking a handshake deal from a tenant based on their word that their credit score is good, that they'll have the deposit in a little while, etc.  

    Profit margin aside, Wholesaler 1 has a verbal from a client of a Wholesaler 2.  Wholesalers 1 doesn't know the client of Wholesaler 2 so there is a non-performance risk (I'm guessing Wholesaler 2 didn't guarantee specific performance in writing).  Wholesaler 2 then has one of their buyers make an offer and they have personal knowledge of them performing in the past.  Playing Devil's Advocate:  Wholesaler 1 now has 1.) a better dollar offer, 2.) has derisked the potential (in their mind) for non-performance, 3.) and gets to keep more of the profit.   

    In short, handshakes work well until they don't.  Verbal agreements work well, until they don't.  And that's not unique to wholesaling, Florida, or real estate.

    For better or worse, one person's "greed" is another person's "abide by the terms of the contract".

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    @Jay Hinrichs

    If you read the entire thread, you MAY get the idea some representations are less than honest. Typical for some scammers. I talked to the DBPR last week and they stated that BP and CL are a "HOTBED OF ILLEGAL ACTIVITY".  

    This poster CLAIMS they are licensed, but do NOT show up in the state database as a licensee.

  • Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 27 posts · 9 votes
    9y

    @Andrew Johnson Yep, absolutely 100%. I totally agree with you since you put it in those terms. I appreciate the response. I suppose its all a learning experience for him and even for myself as to avoid any potential happenings like that. Next time he will probably get that contract immediately signed as you mentioned LOL. 

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