$7,000 purchase, now the rehab

Buying & Selling Real Estate
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$7,000 purchase, now the rehab

Derrick E.
Investor · The Creek, WV · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 1k+ votes

Some of you may have read my post and/or watched the video of my $11,000 house. That is all in after all rehabbing. Currently rented out for $500/month. Could have easily gotten $550/month.

Well we are now rehabbing another house. Initial purchase price is also $7,000 (same as the $11,000 house.) I wanted to show some videos of this house as we update and go through the rehab process. Please keep in mind that I am a small timer still starting out. I do most of the work myself and I contract out some of the work through a local handyman that I use. 

I also invest strictly for cash flow and plan to keep my properties for a long long time. 

Anyways. I started on this house this week and here are the videos I made from this week with my phone. Also please remember I am not into film and such, just a guy with a phone who films stuff when I think about it and also have a few minutes to do so.

This house had a tenant in it for $441/month with around 2 months left on the lease when we bought it.

1st Video

2nd Video

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Account Closed
Rental Property Investor · Torrance, CA · Member since 2016 · 724 posts · 1k+ votes
8y
I’m looking in Birmingham at houses that cost $20,000-$40,000. The rental demand in these areas is strong and always will be. To put it bluntly, poor people rent, they don’t buy. There will never be a shortage of people living paycheck to paycheck that need a roof over their head. The way things are headed with income inequality I think catering to the lower income is a safer bet. I read that 75% of America will be renters by 2050. The middle class are a shrinking demographic. Why would I build my business around a customer base that is decreasing? The property I own now is in a less than desirable part of town in Seattle. I would call it a C+. It’s not a “war zone” but there is a higher rate of crime and even some gang activity. I’ve had it four years and it’s been fine. My property manager is good at what he does. I think management is the key to the low income puzzle.
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  • Ed L.
    Mancelona, MI · Member since 2017 · 17 posts · 9 votes
    8y

    Looks like a nice project with #s that will work.. 

    I am interested in doing something similar.. 

    0Reply
  • Derrick E.
    OP
    Investor · The Creek, WV · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Ed L.:

    Looks like a nice project with #s that will work.. 

    I am interested in doing something similar.. 

    Seeing that you are from Michigan I know you could do this in your area. Lots of deals out there my friend. 

    3Reply
  • Liz Cole
    Camano Island, WA · Member since 2017 · 91 posts · 42 votes
    8y

    @Derrick E. 

    I get that you are planning on holding for a long time, but I can only imagine buying a house - regardless of what State - for $7,000 must be in a high crime/low school rated area. (Maybe I'm wrong as I'm making assumptions, so correct me if not).

    What I've seen as I investigate where to put my starting money, I noticed that these type of areas tend to be fairly stagnant in equity growth, some areas houses under $25k just sit empty for months. Basically, you can't give them away unless one of these "turnkey" companies buy them and then convince somebody in another State it's a great way to get started.. 

    Can you share with me your experience? Are you investing in this type of area? 

    I was looking for a way to start flipping and then keeping one every two or so as a rental to build up a more passive RE income. Any thoughts on this?  

    Thanks! 

    Liz

    3Reply
  • Derrick E.
    OP
    Investor · The Creek, WV · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Liz Cole The $11,000 house is in a high crime area and first one I have bought in a location like that. It's been rough but honestly not as bad as I thought. Then again I live here and manage it myself. Definitely wouldn't trust a PM to run it for me.

    As for this house that I'm currently working on... It's not a bad area. I'd live on this street (then again I grew up poor so maybe most people wouldn't.) This home is 2-3 blocks from a major hospital and a redevelopment area. It is about 5 blocks from a university. In a few years it could be a very desirable area, just depends on what happens with the redevelopment 2-3 blocks away. 

    You are correct that there is little to no equity in these homes, but I don't care as they are so cheap and the cash flow is insane. I also think that at some point (hopefully in my life, but I'm 33) I will see the market turn back around. I think it will happen as mid west cities continue to tear down dilapidated homes, and as homes burn/go empty they just stay that way until torn down. Sooner or later the supply/demand will balance out imo. I plan on leaving my properties to my children some day so I invest strictly for cash flow right now. 

    I truly feel blessed to live in an area like I do and have the opportunity to buy homes so cheap. I wouldn't trust a turnkey provider and I am leery of most people when it comes to investing/business anyways. I only do the videos and make the posts as I see a lot of people living in similar markets throughout the Mid West but they aren't taking advantage of these opportunities. 

    Hope I answered your questions.

    14Reply
  • Liz Cole
    Camano Island, WA · Member since 2017 · 91 posts · 42 votes
    8y

    @Derrick E.

    My family all lives in South Bend and Niles area, and I have been seriously looking at moving back there to invest. My biggest concern is being able to find something to flip. I mean seriously I just looked at a cute house for under $10K, fix it and live in it and then find another one to flip. BUT, it's on the West side. 

    I'm way too Type A to do a Turnkey and trust in that process! I'm a hands-on kinda girl. 

    2Reply
  • Caleb Heimsoth
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y
    Derek E. This Is fantastic. What’s the rent going to be after you rehab? The one similar to this that I got (cost a whopping 35k, worth around 45k now) seems like a really good deal now that I’ve got new tenants in there. I may buy another similar one. It’s in a higher C class area, so it’s not a war zone at all but everyone thinks it is. I grew up in the Midwest so I know what it’s like. People who have only been on the coasts can’t even understand this type of property
    2Reply
  • Liz Cole
    Camano Island, WA · Member since 2017 · 91 posts · 42 votes
    8y

    @Caleb Heimsoth

    I'm originally from Mesa, AZ. But you're correct. Looking at houses that cost the same or less than a car in 2018 seems unbelievable. I also think it's why these TK's can dupe newbies. I've lived in Washington North of Seattle an hour for about 8 years. You would be hard pressed to find a residential lot for $35k. 

    I was looking in Mt Vernon, WA but a dump was over $225k. Will they keep going up? Probably, but I wouldn't live in the area I saw those. I would live in a couple of the under $25k's in SB though.

    The island I live on.. $300K to start. 

    I guess I don't understand how the neighborhood is rated (A-D) in a place like South Bend. 

    1Reply
  • Caleb Heimsoth
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y

    @Liz Cole not all turnkeys are bad.  I’ve bought turnkey.  You just have to know what you’re getting into.  Most the neighborhoods these companies operate in have wild swings in property value depending on if they have been renovated or not.  

    1Reply
  • Derrick E.
    OP
    Investor · The Creek, WV · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Liz Cole:

    @Derrick E.

    My family all lives in South Bend and Niles area, and I have been seriously looking at moving back there to invest. My biggest concern is being able to find something to flip. I mean seriously I just looked at a cute house for under $10K, fix it and live in it and then find another one to flip. BUT, it's on the West side. 

    I'm way too Type A to do a Turnkey and trust in that process! I'm a hands-on kinda girl. 

    I think these are tough markets to flip in and even harder for this price range. Best shot at selling something in this price range would be seller financing options which I don't see the point of. There are definitely pockets and certain streets/neighborhoods where you can flip but it's definitely a buyers market out here. 

    I have no idea how rough those areas on the West side of your town are, but it's something I would personally consider if I lived there.

    0Reply
  • Derrick E.
    OP
    Investor · The Creek, WV · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Caleb Heimsoth:

    Derek E. This Is fantastic. What’s the rent going to be after you rehab? The one similar to this that I got (cost a whopping 35k, worth around 45k now) seems like a really good deal now that I’ve got new tenants in there.

    I may buy another similar one. It’s in a higher C class area, so it’s not a war zone at all but everyone thinks it is.

    I grew up in the Midwest so I know what it’s like. People who have only been on the coasts can’t even understand this type of property

    Market rent will be $500-$550/month depending on what I decide to do with it. You are correct, totally different world than the coasts lol.

    1Reply
  • Liz Cole
    Camano Island, WA · Member since 2017 · 91 posts · 42 votes
    8y

    @Derrick E.

    @Derrick E.Derrick were one/both properties listed through an agent or did you find the sellers through other methods?

    What would you say your ARV is on both?

    And is the ARV close to say, the Zillow estimate?

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Investor · Saskatchewan , Saskatchewan · Member since 2017 · 311 posts · 233 votes
    8y
    Tough for my brain to process this as there isn’t even a 25’ lot for less than $135k in my town. I spent more than $7k on my last guitar!
    1Reply
  • Liz Cole
    Camano Island, WA · Member since 2017 · 91 posts · 42 votes
    8y

    @Caleb Heimsoth

    Yeah, I didn't mean to imply that all TK's are bad. I just meant; you tell someone from SoCal or WA they can buy a fully reno house and rent it at a profit and they're onboard, and often to their detriment because of the due diligence. Maybe if I had a few hundred thousand to invest and no time, I would think about that. But I'm Type A, and love the hands-on part. 

    I'm old too, so I do have to be in a now or never mode, and get my money to grow a little faster than someone in their thirties or forties. Don't get me wrong, I do want to have some semi-passive RE income. I just can't start out that way. 

    I DO appreciate all the input and @Derrick E. I didn't mean to hijack your thread. :) 

    1Reply
  • Derrick E.
    OP
    Investor · The Creek, WV · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Liz Cole:

    @Derrick E.

    @Derrick E.Derrick were one/both properties listed through an agent or did you find the sellers through other methods?

    What would you say your ARV is on both?

    And is the ARV close to say, the Zillow estimate?

    I found both homes listed on Craigslist. The $11,000 house was listed for $15,900. I offered them $7,000 with no inspections or contingencies and stuck with it for 3-4 days until they accepted it.

    The current house was listed at $7,000 cash and had a tenant on HUD for $441/month and 2-3 months left on lease. I offered him full price with no inspections or contingencies. He was a weird old man lol

    I walk through every house and check things out myself. At this price range I feel comfortable checking them out myself. Once I hit that $20k price range I will pay for a true home inspection.

    The $11,000 house would probably appraise for around $25-$30k but I don't think I could sell it for anything close to that. As of right now it'd be hard to sell this house for more than $15k imo. Which I have no intentions of selling but if I wanted to.

    The current house I'm working on is probably around $20-25k but would sell for the low end of that ($18-20k) once I'm finished. 

    The city is doing work around both of these two particular properties of ours. The $11k house has an old commercial building across the street from it. The building has been dilapidated/abandoned since around 2001 or so. The city is in process of tearing it down right now. Doing this is going to make that immediate area so much better. Even if the vacant commercial lot sits there empty.

    The current house is 2-3 blocks away from where the city tore down some projects. The main road in to the city is between my property and where the projects used to sit. 3-4 years ago I probably wouldn't have bought this particular house as it was a rough neighborhood. Now that the projects have been tore down this area is immediately better. I can't wait to see what they put in that location. I have a major hospital about 3-4 blocks to one side and sits right beside the old projects where the redevelopment is taking place. In the other direction from this house is actually about 5-6 blocks to a University. 

    4Reply
  • Derrick E.
    OP
    Investor · The Creek, WV · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Tough for my brain to process this as there isn’t even a 25’ lot for less than $135k in my town. I spent more than $7k on my last guitar!

    There are places like this throughout the entire Mid West. Also my other in law and her family is from Saskatchewan. I didn't realize things were that expensive there.

    0Reply
  • Jarrell D.
    Country Club Hills, IL · Member since 2018 · 51 posts · 45 votes
    8y

    @Derrick E. congrats to you on your purchase and being able to identify with and invest in your C-/D neighborhood. Here in Chicagoland, there are plenty of places like this, including in Northwest Indiana. I myself just picked up a brick 2 unit in Gary for $7.1k and also like you, plan on cash flow only. I bought based on what's developing around it and maybe way down the line it'll rise in value as far as ARV, but for right now it's strictly a cash flow play.

    @Liz Cole I hear what you're saying and I have a friend who works in Seattle and is from Tacoma. I speak to her about these types of numbers all the time and she can't fathom them, but it's true. The A thru F rating system of neighborhoods is a bit subjective but it truly comes down to getting outside your comfort zone. I myself grew up in what some would consider a "C" neighborhood (some, a "B") but was bordering some "A" neighborhoods and also very close to some "D" and even "F" neighborhoods (high crime, very unstable local government, dilapidated homes, huge loss of residential tax revenue) but it allowed me learn and know these neighborhoods and also become more comfortable, and "used" to them.  They aren't the big bad wolf that folks from 20 miles up the road only read about, and have never been to.

    $300k would get you a 2.5k-3k square foot brick home with a concrete driveway, brick mailbox, in a gated community and highly rated schools near where I live, while conversely <$30K and a <$15k reno can get you a cashflowing rental with double digit cap rates. All of these types of areas are bordering each other where I live. We literally have towns full of crime and dilapidation bordering towns with great school districts and strong ARV's. Every market is different, needless to say. PM me, let's talk

    @Account Closed there are areas where you can (with some research) buy a cashflowing property (with light to moderate reno) for $7k.

    4Reply
  • Account Closed
    Rental Property Investor · Torrance, CA · Member since 2016 · 724 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    I’m looking in Birmingham at houses that cost $20,000-$40,000. The rental demand in these areas is strong and always will be. To put it bluntly, poor people rent, they don’t buy. There will never be a shortage of people living paycheck to paycheck that need a roof over their head. The way things are headed with income inequality I think catering to the lower income is a safer bet. I read that 75% of America will be renters by 2050. The middle class are a shrinking demographic. Why would I build my business around a customer base that is decreasing? The property I own now is in a less than desirable part of town in Seattle. I would call it a C+. It’s not a “war zone” but there is a higher rate of crime and even some gang activity. I’ve had it four years and it’s been fine. My property manager is good at what he does. I think management is the key to the low income puzzle.
    5Reply
  • Jason CoryPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2018 · 264 posts · 381 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    I’m looking in Birmingham at houses that cost $20,000-$40,000. The rental demand in these areas is strong and always will be. To put it bluntly, poor people rent, they don’t buy. There will never be a shortage of people living paycheck to paycheck that need a roof over their head. The way things are headed with income inequality I think catering to the lower income is a safer bet. I read that 75% of America will be renters by 2050. The middle class are a shrinking demographic. Why would I build my business around a customer base that is decreasing? The property I own now is in a less than desirable part of town in Seattle. I would call it a C+. It’s not a “war zone” but there is a higher rate of crime and even some gang activity. I’ve had it four years and it’s been fine. My property manager is good at what he does. I think management is the key to the low income puzzle.

     Lower the purchase price/investment, higher the return. 

    You'll make money because you're buying for highest & best use of the property. Everyone that keeps buying in the suburbs will lose their backside in the next downturn netting $100-$200/mo on a $100,000 + investment. 

    The 1% rule in actually is a 1% net return not a 10% return. The wool is over many eyes unfortunately. 

    It's great to net $500 on a $50,000 house. Maybe one day people will see the light. 

    5Reply
  • Derrick E.
    OP
    Investor · The Creek, WV · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by :

    congrats to you on your purchase and being able to identify with and invest in your C-/D neighborhood. Here in Chicagoland, there are plenty of places like this, including in Northwest Indiana. I myself just picked up a brick 2 unit in Gary for $7.1k and also like you, plan on cash flow only. I bought based on what's developing around it and maybe way down the line it'll rise in value as far as ARV, but for right now it's strictly a cash flow play.

    Wow. A duplex for $7,100. That might be the best deal yet. Congrats to you. Sounds like we have the same philosophy on the places and people in the rougher areas. I honestly wondered how this was working in the bigger cities. How much do you think it will cost to rehab the duplex and get it rented?

    1Reply
  • Derrick E.
    OP
    Investor · The Creek, WV · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    I’m looking in Birmingham at houses that cost $20,000-$40,000. The rental demand in these areas is strong and always will be. To put it bluntly, poor people rent, they don’t buy. There will never be a shortage of people living paycheck to paycheck that need a roof over their head. The way things are headed with income inequality I think catering to the lower income is a safer bet. I read that 75% of America will be renters by 2050. The middle class are a shrinking demographic. Why would I build my business around a customer base that is decreasing? The property I own now is in a less than desirable part of town in Seattle. I would call it a C+. It’s not a “war zone” but there is a higher rate of crime and even some gang activity. I’ve had it four years and it’s been fine. My property manager is good at what he does. I think management is the key to the low income puzzle.

    I agree with everything you said. I never even thought about Birmingham but judging by what you say in terms of pricing and rental demand it sounds like my area and most of the mid west.

    I agree with you. Poor people always rent. It never makes sense to me. If 75% of America is renters by 2050 that would be insane. I can't even fathom the thought of that to be honest. Where did you read this? 

    My most expensive house is around $32,000 all in after purchase and a few minor updates. I rent it for $800/month to an excellent tenant. I overpaid looking back but it was my first purchase. You can find nice houses in nice areas for the $25k-45k price range in these markets. 

    1Reply
  • Liz Cole
    Camano Island, WA · Member since 2017 · 91 posts · 42 votes
    8y

    @Jarrell D.

    I have a background in things like marketing, desktop publishing and web design so making things beautiful is in my blood. I look at beat up areas and want to rebuild neighborhoods one house at a time! Not very practical. 

    @Jarrell D.  I looked a little in Gary, because if i move to SB it's not that far, but there were all these super cheap houses sitting vacant. Almost ghost towny. Not being from there makes that seem like a big leap of faith for me.

    @Derrick E.  @Account Closed

    So how do you fund property like this that you're holding when you get started? I have some money, but we rented when first moving to WA and my husband has refused to buy.. thats another story, and he lives in Mesa, AZ now and I'm in WA. So, I'm doing this on my own and with the money I have. 

    I don't have money from the big equity windfall many here in WA have if they sold-out.

    I think about only putting $4-5000 in a property and it seems unreal and I can do things like paint, install cabinets, and tile, etc myself. I get how fresh paint, a power wash can go a long way, but most of what I've seen need more than that.

    0Reply
  • Jason CoryPro Member
    Real Estate Broker · Birmingham, AL · Member since 2018 · 264 posts · 381 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Liz Cole:

    @Jarrell D.

    I have a background in things like marketing, desktop publishing and web design so making things beautiful is in my blood. I look at beat up areas and want to rebuild neighborhoods one house at a time! Not very practical. 

    @Jarrell D.  I looked a little in Gary, because if i move to SB it's not that far, but there were all these super cheap houses sitting vacant. Almost ghost towny. Not being from there makes that seem like a big leap of faith for me.

    @Derrick E.  @Account Closed

    So how do you fund property like this that you're holding when you get started? I have some money, but we rented when first moving to WA and my husband has refused to buy.. thats another story, and he lives in Mesa, AZ now and I'm in WA. So, I'm doing this on my own and with the money I have. 

    I don't have money from the big equity windfall many here in WA have if they sold-out.

    I think about only putting $4-5000 in a property and it seems unreal and I can do things like paint, install cabinets, and tile, etc myself. I get how fresh paint, a power wash can go a long way, but most of what I've seen need more than that.

     It takes one house to turn a hood into a neighborhood. Even low income areas have to keep up with Mr. Jones next door. Gentrification doesn't happen in pretty areas. Degentrification happens in pretty areas when all the investors start putting tenants in owner occupied areas. 

    I'd be interested in a BP case study for the investors that bought in owner occupied areas using the correct value approach as occupied. That's the income approach not sales comparison. Current usage controls sales price. Owner occupants don't buy houses with tenants. Investors buy houses with tenants based on the income. If investors got the correct value approach appraisals based on current usage it would likely make many backsides pucker. 

    If you're buying to rent you buy where value is controlled by rent, i.e., lower income areas. 

    If not, you come out of pocket to renovate once you kick the tenant out to realize the value, sales comparison, you bought it at. The appraiser saw it vacant & pretty in an area where the highest & best use was owner occupied. TK providers switch the usage to an investor & they start underwater because they bought the wrong way, the wrong approach to value. It's not the appraiser's fault because they stated the highest & best use. Investors change the use therefore, change the value. 

    I have a company that finances properties I sell so investors can buy based on the correct usage & value approach. Benefits of being a former appraiser. 

    I also want to see people make money because I was there when investor's bought in the suburbs in the last downturn when the lender was foreclosing. 

    1Reply
  • Derrick E.
    OP
    Investor · The Creek, WV · Member since 2014 · 890 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Liz Cole I have so far saved up and paid for each one with my own cash. First one is the hardest one to get. After that you can grow much faster as now you continue putting in what you were and you put the rent from house #1 towards next purchase and so on. 

    With these kind of prices anyone can save up and get going with this. It would be hard to do and trust as an OOS investor though. JMO.

    2Reply
  • Caleb Heimsoth
    Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2016 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y
    Liz Cole yeah you’re in a different mode then me. I’m in my early 20s and probably about 35 years from retirement. I hope to have 15-20 rentals by 30
    2Reply
  • Ed L.
    Mancelona, MI · Member since 2017 · 17 posts · 9 votes
    8y

    It's pretty tricky because property values drastically change in a few miles here in Northern Michigan.. 

    Just raw land for example drops by about 10X from property on/near lakes like Torch and in tourist towns, to a few miles down the road, or the next town over..

    Houses IN my town for example, including property, are worth less than it would cost to build one, or even put a decent manufactured house.. 

    Take a decent $50k 2 story in my town, put the same thing on a 4 acre property out of town 3 miles, and it's worth $150k.. On a prime lake it would be $1mm.. 

    Their are fixer uppers in town for grabs from time to time from $1500 to $10k, but building materials and labor aren't cheaper when you use them in town, so the numbers don't seem to work.. 

    Everything is listed so high IMO but they seem to stay listed for quite some time.. 

    I think lowball offers are going to be where it's at around here but I need a solid preapproval to do that I think, to even find out.. 

    Their is some stuff listed available on land contract at what seem to me to be predatory rates..

    BUT, I have found that I see the best deals on property that financing isn't available for.. 

    Their was an awesome place in great shape on 4 acres with a nice garage (I am a garage guy), but their was some problem with the title on the doublewide so you couldn't get a loan on it.. 

    I bet it sold for $30-$35k and could be rented out for $700 a month.. 

    If you wanted to pay cash for it or some unconventional financing, but then you might run into huge problems refinancing it somehow so you could move onto your next property.. 

    I would have liked to have had it to live in myself though, and rent out my current trailer for $400-$450.. 

    My trailer is not in great shape so putting a lot of $ into it is like money down the drain but a LOT of people around here rent places in MUCH worse shape so I think it's best to just leave it in it's current bracket and move on to something else.. 

    I have been thinking a lot.. 

    I am a complete amateur in real estate so my assessment may be way wrong.. 

    I wish I was as good at real estate as I am cars.. 

    I can appraise the crap out of cars, diagnose them, quote repairs on them, and am confident dealing with them.. 

    Infact, I have a lot of asset $ in my cars, more than I have into them because I buy cars I can value add to. 

    I daily drive pretty sweet cars this way and don't lose money on them.. Most people lose stupid money on their cars and drive boring kias/hondas (no offence).. 

    If you think about how much an average person loses on their cars, between depreciation and interest on loan after loan, every car saves about enough money for a down payment on a house.. 

    If I can translate this into real estate I think I could make REAL money doing it..

    I have done a lot of residential construction work and even built (with family) the house my mother lives in now from scratch..

    So I can diagnose real estate and repair real estate, I'm pretty confident in that.. 

    But, I am not so confident in my ability to quote the costs of these repairs, quote their value before and after, quote their expected appreciation/depreciation, market conditions, and such, like I can cars.. 

    What are some good ways to learn to quote all of these facets of real estate value and cost?

    I could probably sit down and price a job, draw up plans, and price it out in materials cost for every 2x4, sheet of drywall, and box of screws.. But that would be a lot of work getting so detailed.. 

    And the time/labor cost of such a quote, I am not the lest bit confident that I could make a good educated guess.. 

    For now all I am really doing is looking at listings to get a better idea of real estate values, but to me they mostly all seem outrageously expensive anyway, or not worth putting money into, maybe some rare interesting deals that I am probably not ready for yet creditwise..

    Getting there.. 

    Sorry for getting off topic and talking so much about MY situation in YOUR thread.. 

    0Reply
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