First time investor - fourplex in Portland area

First time investor - fourplex in Portland area

Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 0 votes

Hi all, my husband and I have been looking to invest in real estate in the Portland or Vancouver WA area. We are moving up there from CA so ideally want to live in the property first to get a good loan, then move to a bigger place and rent this one out. Initially our though was to do SFH, but we've started looking into duplex and fourplexes. We've found a multi unit complex that seems to cashflow pretty well based on the current lease rents and what our mortgage would be. While living in this fourplex we'd only be paying about $500/mo out of pocket. Once we move the total monthly cash flow on top of mortgage but before other costs would be around $1500/mo. The place has been recently updated, however one unit (the one we'd initially live in) would require some rehab which we are fine with. Does this initially sound like a good investment? Or what more information would you need to get to determine?

Also, we aren't familiar with demographics of tenants in Portland, we felt very comfortable with renting a SFH in Vancouver (likely to young families) but this four plex would likely be to singles, working professionals, etc and would likely have higher turnover we'd have to factor.

Any insight or things to consider?

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Mike NussPro Member
Real Estate Entrepreneur · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 451 posts · 328 votes
8y

@Wendy McIntire what are the size and br/bath counts on those units? I own a few very well located, fully renovated, historic 4plexes and not one of them brings in $8,800 per month. I have a couple that bring in around 8k, but to get $8,800 this building should have larger units. 

Be careful using “projected rents”. Brokers in Portland tend to get a little aggressive in their marketing of small multi family props. If your potential property really brings in $8800, it would fly off the market at 1.1mm here. 

I’m definitely making some assumptions, but wanted to point this out as I have seen a lot of bad purchases for 2-4 units in Portland. I’ve also seen some awesome 2-4 unit purchases though and highly agree with @Neal Collins about a 4 unit building being a great house hack opportunity. 

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  • Rental Property Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2017 · 181 posts · 115 votes
    8y

    Make sure to do your research on landlord/tenant laws in Portland. It’s easy to get into trouble if you don’t follow them. 

  • Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Would need to know what your purchase price is and the area it is located to give any meaningful advice
  • Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    It’s located East Portland about 2 Miles from downtown.  Purchase price of $1.15sM we’d put 25% down

  • Realtor · Portland, OR · Member since 2017 · 7 posts · 3 votes
    8y

    @Wendy McIntire

    One thing to keep in mind, if you are planning on occupying one of the units and it is currently occupied you may have to pay the Portland relocation fee to do an eviction. 

    1bd is $3,300, 2bd is $4,200

    Here is some more info on that: https://www.portlandoregon.gov/eudaly/article/6274...

  • Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    Thanks! That unit is actually empty right now so we are good with that!

  • Portland, OR · Member since 2008 · 123 posts · 73 votes
    8y

    If my calculator is correct (which is might nop be), in order to cashflow $1500 on a $1.15M 4 plex each unit would rent at around $2200. That's only calculating 9% CapEx and no owner-paid utilities. Does that sound about right?

  • Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    Yes that’s the average rent amount per month For all units, some are bigger than others.  I didn’t calculate any owner paid utilities in the 1500 amount. Since we are living in it as well we plan to get around 5% interest loan 

  • Vancouver, WA · Member since 2014 · 127 posts · 60 votes
    8y

    @Wendy McIntire I would run that straight line math on the cap rate of the property and include property management and appropriate maintenance / vacancy into that. If the cap rate is 1%-2% higher then your fixed debt then I think it should be a fairly attractive investment. Regarding multi-family I would say I am more bearish vs SFH because there is just so much multi-family supply coming online that is putting pressure and will continue to put pressure on rents. Also, someone that is looking to rent a SFH is a completely different renter then someone in a multi-family unit.

    Finally, take a look at Vancouver, WA as you stated.  If you goal is to retire then I think it would be wise to pick the suburb of Portland that has no income taxes.

    These are just my opinions but hope it helps.

  • Developer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 732 posts · 490 votes
    8y
    Wendy McIntire The fourplex has got to be one of the best property investments out there to house jack simply because you get the most units with solid, low interest rate 30 year amortized financing. One of my original acquisitions was a four-plex in the Buckman neighborhood in Portland and we did a similar thing by living in a unit and renting out the rest. Our living expenses were zero. Those were one bedroom units and if we didn’t end up having a family and needing more space then we would still be there. The demographics can be very solid on multi families and we have tenants of all ages in our portfolio. In one four plex we own there is an older lady that is the mother hen and takes care of all the common area cleaning, sweeps the front area, puts out fresh flowers, etc. I finally started to give her a $75/month credit but this is one of the nice things about a smaller community. If you are going to live there and the choice comes down to Portland and Vancouver then choose where you want to live. Are landlord tenant laws getting stricter in Portland? Sure, however, I’m not very worried about prices taking a nose dive. Vancouver is also an attractive marketing simply because it rides the coat tails of Portland. But if I worked in Portland and lived in Vancouver then I’d be getting taxed at Portland’s income tax, be paying Washington’s sales taxes, would constantly be fighting horrendous I-5 traffic on the bridge, and would have less neighborhood amenities. @Uwe Show me where all the increased supply is for For Sale residential multiplexes? Still low inventory out there.
  • Member since 2018 · 12 posts · 0 votes
    8y

    @Neal Collins thanks so much for your insight! Yes we feel it’s the way to go.  What do you use as your criteria for ensuring the fourplex is truly profitable.  We are just torn because right now the numbers looks great, the house has been mostly renovated however it is an older Victorian style home and will likely need future repairs.  However, it has a new roof and lots of updates.  Our loan amount is close to $900k.  Our monthly figures are 1500 net cashflow before expenses  and we plan to manage it ourselves. Thank you again! 

  • Developer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 732 posts · 490 votes
    8y

    @Wendy McIntire It sounds like you've done your due diligence. Our underwriting criteria varies on the kind of deal, but for something like this I look carefully at the systems and major costs that you mentioned: 

    • Age, style, and type of roof
    • Age of furnace or other heating mechanisms
    • Condition and material of plumbing
    • Electrical panels - what type and is there sufficient load
    • Foundation condition
    • Ongoing maintenance concerns - trees!
    • Utilities setup - who is responsible for what
    • Future capital expenses (ie removing carpet, redoing a porch, etc)
    • Taxes- if the property is rehabbed is the new tax rate encompassed in your numbers?
    • Areas for expanded revenue potential like garages or storage area

    It all boils down to a numbers game. Let me know if you want to connect offline.

  • Engineer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Wendy McIntire so your saying your going to be able to rent out each unit for about $2,200?
  • Mike NussPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 451 posts · 328 votes
    8y

    @Wendy McIntire what are the size and br/bath counts on those units? I own a few very well located, fully renovated, historic 4plexes and not one of them brings in $8,800 per month. I have a couple that bring in around 8k, but to get $8,800 this building should have larger units. 

    Be careful using “projected rents”. Brokers in Portland tend to get a little aggressive in their marketing of small multi family props. If your potential property really brings in $8800, it would fly off the market at 1.1mm here. 

    I’m definitely making some assumptions, but wanted to point this out as I have seen a lot of bad purchases for 2-4 units in Portland. I’ve also seen some awesome 2-4 unit purchases though and highly agree with @Neal Collins about a 4 unit building being a great house hack opportunity. 

  • Brad HammondBusiness Member
    Real Estate Agent · Portland, OR · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 605 votes
    8y

    Hi Wendy.  I've got a 5 unit building in NE Portland.  For fixed costs I pay about $75/mo for landscaping, $50/mo for electric (washer & dryer and exterior lights), $130/mo for trash removal and $250/mo for water/sewer.  I'm sure your numbers will very but that will give you an idea of what the fixed costs will look like  

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