Looks like Amazon hq2 is NYC and VA
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Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
7yOriginally posted by @Aaron Taylor:
From a pure financial standpoint when you can pick anywhere in the US to build, those two areas seem like odd choices. It's kind of like having the whole US as an option to buy rental property and then buying in the most expensive areas. Obviously it must be non-financially driven to some degree. But what do I know, lol.
I also think that huge headquarters may start to go by the wayside in the future. I live in the midwest, and I've noticed that companies in expensive areas are starting to recruit people to work from home remotely rather than pay someone locally. Like a person in Kansas might be 25% to 50% cheaper than someone in Cali doing the same job. I think that trend is going to continue in the future as companies shrink their offices and hire remotely. I know of two engineers in the last month that were recruited to work at home from now on.
DC makes perfect sense to me as a DC area resident. Cheap housing when measured against income. Sure while we are the 5th or 6th most expensive market, we also make the most money by far making housing very affordable. Housing prices are only about 4 times our income, placing us outside the top 20 most expensive markets when measured against income.
We have the highest percentage of bachelors, masters, and doctoral level degrees by far. Sonhighly educated work force. We also have a culture built around work and careers here.
Biggest tech workforce outside the bay area.
We have a large amazon presence already, and the backbone of the entire internet is here in DC with 70% of the entire internets traffic driving through our data centers.
We have a great public transportation system. We have 3 major airports. We have some of the best school systems in the country.
Bezos owns the Post and the most expensive house in DC...and of course easy access for lobbying. Marriott, Northrop Grumman and many other companies have certainly found it beneficial to be here for the purposes of lobbying
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United States v. Microsoft Corp. 
Court Case history Prior action(s) United States v. Microsoft Corp., 87 F. Supp. 2d 30 (D.D.C.2000); 97 F. Supp. 2d 59(D.D.C. 2000), direct appeal denied, pet. cert. denied, 530U.S. 1301 (2000). Subsequent action(s) Holding That the finding of the District Court that Microsoft violated the Antitrust Act is confirmed, the order of that court is reversed, and remanded for the drafting of a subsequent order. Court membership Judge(s) sitting Case opinions Per curiam. Laws applied 15 U.S.C. § 2 United States v. Microsoft Corporation, 253 F.3d 34 (D.C. Cir. 2001),[1] is a U.S. antitrust law case, settled by the Department of Justice (DOJ), in which the technology company Microsoft was accused of holding a monopoly and engaging in anti-competitive practices contrary to sections 1 and 2 of the Sherman Antitrust Act.
This is what Amazon wants to avoid.
- Investor / Broker · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 665 posts · 1k+ votes7y
If HQ2 actually makes it out to LIC/Queens and the rentals there are most likely to SKYROCKET close by, there will be 2 options for those that are going to staff the new HQ2.
1) You are rich enough to pay the $3k to $4k+ rent for a 1 Bedroom apts that will be available or
2) You are most likely to move close by in an area that has some "reasonable" rents for you and your family.
Usually, that means the transportation to work has to be straight forward and quick.
In NYC, anything along the trains that go directly into Manhattan has skyrocketed if it's within 30 to 60 minutes to the Manhattan.
I suspect this will have a similar effect. The trains that serve the LIC areas are the 7 train, the LIRR, E, F, M and R trains.
There is ONE sleeping DOG train that I think will be woken up if this comes true! the "G" Train.
It's the only one that goes from LIC DIRECTLY to Brooklyn.
I have a feeling that if you were a well paid HQ2 employee, you may want to live in Brooklyn if there was a DIRECT train that takes you there and back within 30 minutes without having to go through Manhattan!
I have been doing GREAT on these residual effects. It will be very interesting to see if the properties along the "G" train will appreciate. That would mean further appreciation for Greenpoint, Bushwick, Bed-Stuy, Clinton Hill, all in Brooklyn.
Of course, I MAY BE a bit biased as I own several Bed-Stuy/Clinton Hill properties!
My bet is that it will, and I have not been wrong on property selection for 21 years!
@Llewelyn A. Based on your impeccable track record in NYC, I can go with that especially if I had an extra mil burning a hole in my pocket and or any physically well positioned combo of investment type vehicles in between all those points of common commutes. The list is near endless for new RE opps there I imagine.
- Rental Property Investor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2017 · 14 posts · 9 votes7y
I also heard Long Island City. Awww and Pittsburghers were so excited at the prospect of it coming here.
- Olathe, KS · Member since 2018 · 148 posts · 207 votes7y
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
DC makes perfect sense to me as a DC area resident. Cheap housing when measured against income. Sure while we are the 5th or 6th most expensive market, we also make the most money by far making housing very affordable.
That part in bold is why exactly why I said it didn't make much sense to me financially...so you're saying your labor is more expensive there than anywhere else? The company isn't paying for housing, but they're paying for salaries. :)
- Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Aaron Taylor:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
DC makes perfect sense to me as a DC area resident. Cheap housing when measured against income. Sure while we are the 5th or 6th most expensive market, we also make the most money by far making housing very affordable.
That part in bold is why exactly why I said it didn't make much sense to me financially...so you're saying your labor is more expensive there than anywhere else? The company isn't paying for housing, but they're paying for salaries. :)
Thats what comes with the highest educated work force in the country. They wont find the people who can actually do the jobs they need done in Little Rock Arkansas or Tupelo Mississippi. What Amazon currently offers paywise to their white collar workers fits in with salaries in this area already.
If it was just cheap labor they needed, they could outsource to Mexico or India. But they need a skilled and educated labor force to perform the jobs that they have. Software engineers, business managers, supply line chain management experts, etc.
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Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Aaron Taylor:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
DC makes perfect sense to me as a DC area resident. Cheap housing when measured against income. Sure while we are the 5th or 6th most expensive market, we also make the most money by far making housing very affordable.
That part in bold is why exactly why I said it didn't make much sense to me financially...so you're saying your labor is more expensive there than anywhere else? The company isn't paying for housing, but they're paying for salaries. :)
Thats what comes with the highest educated work force in the country. They wont find the people who can actually do the jobs they need done in Little Rock Arkansas or Tupelo Mississippi. What Amazon currently offers paywise to their white collar workers fits in with salaries in this area already.
If it was just cheap labor they needed, they could outsource to Mexico or India. But they need a skilled and educated labor force to perform the jobs that they have. Software engineers, business managers, supply line chain management experts, etc.
This is the same problem that Apple and Google run into too is finding educated people. Even paying top salary it is hard when you have saturated a market like they have. That is why Amazon was forced to a big market and ultimately why it looks like they are splitting between two markets. Smaller remote markets get the manufacturing plants, larger markets get the high skill jobs.
- Rental Property Investor · Mc Kinney, TX · Member since 2015 · 35 posts · 9 votes7y
two hq - 3 potential cities, VA, NY, TX. Think big population pool. Don't speculate with your money. Wait for real news, then invest. There is a difference in gambling and investing.
Very strange. Expensive land. Expensive taxes. Expensive regulations. Expensive labor friendly / employer unfriendly governments. I guess the fact they wanted something with blue politics overrode all the other negatives.
- Olathe, KS · Member since 2018 · 148 posts · 207 votes7y
Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
Originally posted by @Aaron Taylor:
Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:
DC makes perfect sense to me as a DC area resident. Cheap housing when measured against income. Sure while we are the 5th or 6th most expensive market, we also make the most money by far making housing very affordable.
That part in bold is why exactly why I said it didn't make much sense to me financially...so you're saying your labor is more expensive there than anywhere else? The company isn't paying for housing, but they're paying for salaries. :)
Thats what comes with the highest educated work force in the country. They wont find the people who can actually do the jobs they need done in Little Rock Arkansas or Tupelo Mississippi. What Amazon currently offers paywise to their white collar workers fits in with salaries in this area already.
If it was just cheap labor they needed, they could outsource to Mexico or India. But they need a skilled and educated labor force to perform the jobs that they have. Software engineers, business managers, supply line chain management experts, etc.
This is the same problem that Apple and Google run into too is finding educated people. Even paying top salary it is hard when you have saturated a market like they have. That is why Amazon was forced to a big market and ultimately why it looks like they are splitting between two markets. Smaller remote markets get the manufacturing plants, larger markets get the high skill jobs.
As a software engineer myself (17 years experience) I can say the biggest issue with almost all these big companies is that they're unwilling to pay higher salaries. They all want tons of experience for the price of someone with less than 5 years experience. Google is the only company I've heard of who pays their key people ridiculous salaries to prevent poaching.
Whenever you hear big companies say "we can't find people" what they really mean is we're not willing to pay higher salaries to get people. So it's hard for me to feel too sorry for them when they're making billions of dollars. If you're willing to pay more, there are always people available. It's only an education issue because these companies want cheap college grads and those are more limited in supply, lol.
- 7yKerry Noble JrPro MemberInvestor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
The city Of Indianapolis was one of the 20 finalist but I kinda figured it was over for us when they announced plans for a new redistribution center in greenwood.......also, we couldnt compete with those tax breaks that other cities were offering.....
- Real Estate Agent · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes7y
These decisions have to be politically motivated. They do not make economic sense. Companies are leaving these areas not moving in. They are already too expensive. LIC is great because it is 39 sq ft as opposed to 57 for Manhattan.
In terms of pure economics, moving to a location like the Leigh Valley or West Virginia would seem to be a more sensible choice. Land and labor are significantly cheaper and will not price most of their employees out of the area due to the cost. Further, some of these areas would offer tax breaks and building concessions.
From a purely speculative approach, you could make money buying property in these areas.
- Real Estate Agent · Orlando, FL · Member since 2015 · 55 posts · 22 votes7y@Llewelyn A. I think that's a fair assesment as Brooklyn is a great place to live. However, the G train is the worst so if that happens hopefully the city fixes that line and makes it so trains run more frequently.
- Real Estate Broker · Alexandria, VA · Member since 2018 · 89 posts · 30 votes7y
Crystal City makes perfect sense for the area here because there is an abundance of empty office space, a few vacant lots, on two Metro lines, urban, adjacent to the airport, inside the Beltway and only one major developer with which to deal ... it makes a ton more sense than the techy area out by Dulles.
- Investor / Broker · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 665 posts · 1k+ votes7y
Hi Ray! Good to hear from a fellow NYC Investor!
I think the City can improve things QUICKLY by ordering more G-Trains from Amazon! I am sure the City has Amazon Prime! haha!
It's going to hard to ignore living in Brooklyn along the G-Train. I just mapped it with Google and it only takes 15 minutes to get from LIC to Clinton Hill, Brooklyn.
It's a GREAT commute for those younger and hip Amazon employees!
I can see that there are a lot of people scratching their heads when it comes to picking a very expensive City for HQ2.
It would be easier to understand if you were to think like a Wealthy person.
Imagine you were wealthy, where would you live? In a place that makes sense to the working class or a place that gives you Status?
The wealthy tend to choose Status, which is why fancy brands are so popular, especially when the economy is really good.
NYC is a fancy brand and Amazon is RICH.
I remember watching an episode of "Mad Men", which is about the Advertising field in NYC on Madison Ave. They were tasked by Jaguar to advertise one of their luxury cars. The slogan was "Don't buy this car because it's Practical, buy it because it's NOT!"
I am a practical person but I recognize the need for the wealthy to be impractical, in other words, not like everyone else.
We all do it to certain degrees, for instance, if you were hungry and wanted good food, sometimes we choose atmosphere for the same food because we want something "special."
Practical is BORING. Impractical, EXCITING!
Anyway, I don't want to beat a dead horse. I think the readers of this post gets it!
- Real Estate Agent · Orlando, FL · Member since 2015 · 55 posts · 22 votes7y
Originally posted by @Llewelyn A.:
Hi Ray! Good to hear from a fellow NYC Investor!
I think the City can improve things QUICKLY by ordering more G-Trains from Amazon! I am sure the City has Amazon Prime! haha!
It's going to hard to ignore living in Brooklyn along the G-Train. I just mapped it with Google and it only takes 15 minutes to get from LIC to Clinton Hill, Brooklyn.
It's a GREAT commute for those younger and hip Amazon employees!
I can see that there are a lot of people scratching their heads when it comes to picking a very expensive City for HQ2.
It would be easier to understand if you were to think like a Wealthy person.
Imagine you were wealthy, where would you live? In a place that makes sense to the working class or a place that gives you Status?
The wealthy tend to choose Status, which is why fancy brands are so popular, especially when the economy is really good.
NYC is a fancy brand and Amazon is RICH.
I remember watching an episode of "Mad Men", which is about the Advertising field in NYC on Madison Ave. They were tasked by Jaguar to advertise one of their luxury cars. The slogan was "Don't buy this car because it's Practical, buy it because it's NOT!"
I am a practical person but I recognize the need for the wealthy to be impractical, in other words, not like everyone else.
We all do it to certain degrees, for instance, if you were hungry and wanted good food, sometimes we choose atmosphere for the same food because we want something "special."
Practical is BORING. Impractical, EXCITING!
Anyway, I don't want to beat a dead horse. I think the readers of this post gets it!
Haha, I'm sure Amazon can make a way better version of the G-train. Then again I'm sure my 10-year old niece can as well. But your pretty spot on... it'll definitely be exciting to see the ripple effect, hopefully, it sticks.
- 7yPaul DeSilvaPro MemberInvestor · New York, NY · Member since 2017 · 148 posts · 252 votes@Matt R. Amazon is building possibly 4- 1,000,000 sqft distribution centers in the NYC area. The first one in Staten Island is just about complete and the second is started. They are talking about the third one in Queens and the fourth building in the Bronx.
- Real Estate Agent · Merritt Island, FL · Member since 2017 · 986 posts · 1k+ votes7y
@Eric Giovannucci - Crystal City *is* in Arlington.....it's south side (and it's not a separate city). Fort Myer is also in Arlington.
@Loretta Gray - agree mostly, however the "techy" area by Dulles is good IF there's going to be any distribution. If not, then Crystal City is better. Time to buy stock in Crystal City Restaurant. >:-)
- Olathe, KS · Member since 2018 · 148 posts · 207 votes7y
Originally posted by @Llewelyn A.:
Hi Ray! Good to hear from a fellow NYC Investor!
I think the City can improve things QUICKLY by ordering more G-Trains from Amazon! I am sure the City has Amazon Prime! haha!
It's going to hard to ignore living in Brooklyn along the G-Train. I just mapped it with Google and it only takes 15 minutes to get from LIC to Clinton Hill, Brooklyn.
It's a GREAT commute for those younger and hip Amazon employees!
I can see that there are a lot of people scratching their heads when it comes to picking a very expensive City for HQ2.
It would be easier to understand if you were to think like a Wealthy person.
Imagine you were wealthy, where would you live? In a place that makes sense to the working class or a place that gives you Status?
The wealthy tend to choose Status, which is why fancy brands are so popular, especially when the economy is really good.
NYC is a fancy brand and Amazon is RICH.
I remember watching an episode of "Mad Men", which is about the Advertising field in NYC on Madison Ave. They were tasked by Jaguar to advertise one of their luxury cars. The slogan was "Don't buy this car because it's Practical, buy it because it's NOT!"
I am a practical person but I recognize the need for the wealthy to be impractical, in other words, not like everyone else.
We all do it to certain degrees, for instance, if you were hungry and wanted good food, sometimes we choose atmosphere for the same food because we want something "special."
Practical is BORING. Impractical, EXCITING!
Anyway, I don't want to beat a dead horse. I think the readers of this post gets it!
According to all the research done by The Millionaire Next Door, the large majority of the wealthy do not choose status. High income earners who don't save do choose status according to all their research.
- Lender · Bethesda MD · Member since 2017 · 283 posts · 123 votes7y
Originally posted by @Aaron Taylor:
From a pure financial standpoint when you can pick anywhere in the US to build, those two areas seem like odd choices. It's kind of like having the whole US as an option to buy rental property and then buying in the most expensive areas. Obviously it must be non-financially driven to some degree. But what do I know, lol.
I also think that huge headquarters may start to go by the wayside in the future. I live in the midwest, and I've noticed that companies in expensive areas are starting to recruit people to work from home remotely rather than pay someone locally. Like a person in Kansas might be 25% to 50% cheaper than someone in Cali doing the same job. I think that trend is going to continue in the future as companies shrink their offices and hire remotely. I know of two engineers in the last month that were recruited to work at home from now on.
The original reason to create HQ2 was because Seattle is running out of talent and the company is having trouble accommodating a growing company with a stagnant hiring pool. Can you think of two places that have higher education percentages than NYC and DC hubs?
I agree about work from home stuff though. I wonder what the statistics around productivity are from full time stay-at-home vs some amount of time in the office. - Investor / Broker · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2016 · 665 posts · 1k+ votes7y
Originally posted by @Aaron Taylor:
Originally posted by @Llewelyn A.:
Hi Ray! Good to hear from a fellow NYC Investor!
I think the City can improve things QUICKLY by ordering more G-Trains from Amazon! I am sure the City has Amazon Prime! haha!
It's going to hard to ignore living in Brooklyn along the G-Train. I just mapped it with Google and it only takes 15 minutes to get from LIC to Clinton Hill, Brooklyn.
It's a GREAT commute for those younger and hip Amazon employees!
I can see that there are a lot of people scratching their heads when it comes to picking a very expensive City for HQ2.
It would be easier to understand if you were to think like a Wealthy person.
Imagine you were wealthy, where would you live? In a place that makes sense to the working class or a place that gives you Status?
The wealthy tend to choose Status, which is why fancy brands are so popular, especially when the economy is really good.
NYC is a fancy brand and Amazon is RICH.
I remember watching an episode of "Mad Men", which is about the Advertising field in NYC on Madison Ave. They were tasked by Jaguar to advertise one of their luxury cars. The slogan was "Don't buy this car because it's Practical, buy it because it's NOT!"
I am a practical person but I recognize the need for the wealthy to be impractical, in other words, not like everyone else.
We all do it to certain degrees, for instance, if you were hungry and wanted good food, sometimes we choose atmosphere for the same food because we want something "special."
Practical is BORING. Impractical, EXCITING!
Anyway, I don't want to beat a dead horse. I think the readers of this post gets it!
According to all the research done by The Millionaire Next Door, the large majority of the wealthy do not choose status. High income earners who don't save do choose status according to all their research.
I read the Millionaire Next Door and it really described me to a TEE!! haha!
BUT, what it didn't do was to go as deep to look into what Families do when they get rich. For instance, you, the father, may have made Millions buying properties. BUT, you will probably push your children to do something else, like become a Doctor or a Lawyer, even though your children won't make as much money as you do as a business Entrepreneur.
The reality is that there isn't much status to a Millionaire who is the owner of a ball bearing company even if those ball bearings are selling in every machine in the world!
NOW.... if your Child was a Medical Doctor or fancy lawyer, well... that's impressive! And has a lot of status attached to it.
I also wanted to mention that when I was talking about being wealthy, we are a little spoiled, thinking that someone who makes $100k a year IS NOT wealthy. But the reality is that this person IS Wealthy, especially if the spouse equally makes over $100k for a combined household income of over $200k, by the average American standard and certainly by world standards.
Status is something that those Millionaires who have made it by many of the things we should be doing, such as living below our means, etc. don't really seem to care about until their children go to College. Then you will really see if they are seeking status!
The Millionaire Next Door is a good book. I think everyone should read it. But we should all keep in mind that status may be chased in many indirect ways, including having your children achieve it for you.
I remember the story of Consuelo Vanderbilt. The fabulously wealthy Vanderbilts wanted Status so badly, they literally bought their daugher's husband because of his Royal status. The one thing they really couldn't get by buying was the Royal blood.......... until they found a willing Royal to give it to them! haha!
- Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes7y
Originally posted by :
The original reason to create HQ2 was because Seattle is running out of talent and the company is having trouble accommodating a growing company with a stagnant hiring pool. Can you think of two places that have higher education percentages than NYC and DC hubs?
I agree about work from home stuff though. I wonder what the statistics around productivity are from full time stay-at-home vs some amount of time in the office.Yup Kerry you are spot on. This chart is the perfect illustrator.
http://www.decisionsciencenews.com/2016/04/15/educ...
DC has a huge population of of people with graduate degrees, and even multiple gradute degress competing for entry level jobs. I mean heck we have a huge population of people with law degrees that work as paralegals. A graduate degree doesnt even guarantee you an entry level job. Its not elitist, its a fact about the population andnits a fact about the work force that Amazon needs, and the entire reason they are seeking a second head quarters. 50,000 software engineers and business executives is a hard thing to find out if thin air. 2/3rds of the population have a bachelor's degree and 1/3 have a graduate degree, and it has the 2nd largest tech work force in the country. Its the same reason apple is looking at putting a 2nd hq here with 20,000 employees. And the DC area, unlike most coastal cities is generally business friendly, much more so than the west coast metro areas.
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