Duplex with Bedrooms without windows

Duplex with Bedrooms without windows

Real Estate Agent · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 5 votes

Hi everyone just hoping to get some help/suggestions on a duplex I have under contract with a couple more days left in my inspection contingency period.  Property is a built in 1978 2 bed/2bath on each side with enough room to easily add a third bedroom.

I was really excited about getting my first property/duplex under contract and went through inspections and was moving forward to closing.

After working through what it would need to add the third bedroom it dawned on me that the main bedroom(and 3rd bedroom if added) in each side does not have any windows (no escape route).  However, each of them have a set of french doors leading into the bedroom on one wall with a normal door on another wall.  The only way I could see to add a window would be to remove the closet and put it on the back wall of the closet.  This would require me to rebuild the closet on another wall.  Not only would I have to move the closet, in order to add the window I would need to cut through outer brick wall, which is also right next to where the electric meter, and gas lines are.

So right now I do not think that the duplex is up to code (right?).  The inspection reported that there was not a firewall between the units in the attic either, but figured that would be grandfathered in with the old code.  Unfortunately, I am wondering if I need to walk away and chalk this one up as a learning experience and lose out on inspection, appraisal, and title costs that will need paid for.

Sorry for such a long post, but trying to provide all of the info.  Any suggestions or experience in this situation?

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Kansas City MO · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 349 votes
7y

@Mason Wade Morris from what I know a bedroom has to have a window and a closet otherwise it’s not technically a bedroom. Any RE agent I know or ever worked with would advertise this as a one bedroom if the second bedroom doesn’t have a window. Maybe they’d call that second bedroom a ‘bonus room’ but not a bedroom.  

If it’s a good deal as a one bedroom then I would move forward. But if it drastically changes your numbers and gives you negative equity & there’s no way to add windows then I guess that’s something to think about. 

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  • Kansas City MO · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 349 votes
    7y

    @Mason Wade Morris from what I know a bedroom has to have a window and a closet otherwise it’s not technically a bedroom. Any RE agent I know or ever worked with would advertise this as a one bedroom if the second bedroom doesn’t have a window. Maybe they’d call that second bedroom a ‘bonus room’ but not a bedroom.  

    If it’s a good deal as a one bedroom then I would move forward. But if it drastically changes your numbers and gives you negative equity & there’s no way to add windows then I guess that’s something to think about. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    Thanks @Laura Williams that is what I figured.  It made sense as a 2 bedroom and was great as a 3 bedroom, but just simply would not make money as a 1 bedroom.  While I think it might be possible to add a window, it would make the room L-shaped and cost more than I think it would be worth not making it a good deal.

    While you could be use that room as a bedroom (the rented side does), I was more worried about the liability or getting sued, insurability, and if someone decided later that it would need to be changed that would be a large expense.  Otherwords more worried about the safety side of things.  Not sure how they got away with this for so long and the country records show 2 bedrooms.

  • Kansas City MO · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 349 votes
    7y

    @Mason Wade Morris I think tenants could probably use that room for whatever they wanted but you couldn't advertise it as a bedroom for rent without the window and closet and it would effect resale value of the building since the second bedroom isn't legal. You might get a bid to see how much it would cost to add a window before making a final call. I had a friend who added an egress window in the basement where they actually had to cut through the foundation and he got it done for $1800 which I thought was really cheap for something like that so it might be less than you think. 

    Or the other possibility is that it will get a nice rent as a one bedroom since it has the "bonus" room and all that extra space and you still go through with the sale. I would comp this duplex as spacious one bedrooms for running the numbers.

  • Corby GoadeBusiness Member
    Investor · Boise, ID · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    7y

    Personally, I wouldn't want to rent a house without legal egress in a basement bedroom, regardless of how you advertise it. Chances are it will be rented by a family, and chances are they will have their kids in the basement. What if there were a fire and the kids couldn't get out? That peace of mind is worth the cost of the egress windows.

    I know you aren't asking if you should add them, but if you are trying to figure out if it's worth the expense, yes, it is. Peace of mind is invaluable. 

    Good luck!

  • Rental Property Investor · Evansville, IN · Member since 2018 · 62 posts · 53 votes
    7y

    @Mason Wade Morris check your actual codes . Don’t guess at what it is . Bring up the county’s website and look up building codes . Should have a section on bedrooms . Window size needed along with minimum square footage . I do not know the building configuration . The county I invest in allows skylights as a window as long as the ceiling height is also in compliance . While you’re there you might want to bring up the local tenant laws .

    I do add ons in basements all the time, but I do it to code . It’s easy just look up the code . Even if this one doesn’t work out . You’ll know the code for the next property you look at . Self educate on anything that has to do with building code . Next time you’ll see a lot more about a house then you would normally .

  • Rental Property Investor · Wichita, KS · Member since 2018 · 52 posts · 33 votes
    7y
    @Laura Williams Renegotiate the price? If youre thinking about walking away from the deal with then why not shoot them a lower offer and just see what happens. Also, I wouldn't worry about the window being in a word place, as long as it meets code. Good luck !
  • Kansas City MO · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 349 votes
    7y

    @Account Closed Good point. It never hurts to try. I've been told to pi** off on some of my low bids or in one case the seller was so insulted they didn't even counter lol but then again I've been surprised at some of my bids that was accepted. My friend once got a seller down from asking price of 250K to only 50K. So lesson is it doesn't hurt to ask for a lower price lol

  • Real Estate Agent · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Laura Williams I agree it may not be too terrible much to put in a window, but I am a little worried since that is where the electrical box and meter are located along with the where the gas comes into the property.  Along with I would need to build the closet somewhere else.

    @Corby GoadeI agree and that is why I wanted to ask before I am out of the contingency period. However, this is not a basement bedroom just a normal bedroom on the side-by-side duplex where the master bedrooms are against the adjoining wall of the duplex with a closet and bathroom on the only outside wall (which is where are window could go if I removed one).

    @Scott Schaar Thanks for the suggestions, I've been looking at the code and looks like they just refer to the standard International codes.

    @Account Closed I agree Derek that is a good idea, I will ask if they would fix by adding the window or lower the price.  I presume they will walk away and get a buyer who doesn't care, but doesn't hurt to ask.

    Thanks for everyone's help and suggestions, I included some photos of the bedroom to help show what I am talking about.

  • Rental Property Investor · Jacksonville, Florida Area · Member since 2016 · 106 posts · 48 votes
    7y
    @Laura Williams Laura, I have a question. How big does a closet need to be in a bedroom? Is there a minimum requirement? Thanks
  • Kansas City MO · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 349 votes
    7y

    @Account Closed that's a good question. I'm not sure what code is or if there is a code for that. I have a put a couple closets in that were pretty tiny. More than anything I've done it for the appraisal since I try to BRRR as much as possible. When it comes to appraisals is where the extra legal ‘bedrooms' really count more than in the rents prices ...in my opinion. Tenants can see the size of the space and probably don't care about having a 2 foot closet or a window in a bedroom but the appraisers do.

  • WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    only realtors need a closet to consider something a bedroom. i've never read (code) about having a closet as a requirement for a room to be called "bed" room. yes, an egress window and door + min. 7ft ceilings are in those requirements.

  • Investor · Hudson, WI · Member since 2016 · 82 posts · 18 votes
    7y

    Victor is correct. There is no code requiring a closet to be a legal bedroom. It is a MLS/realtor thing. Also, you could put a wardrobe (furniture) in it and it counts as a closet for resale.

    Code does specify exterior egress access.  I would do like others have mentioned and use it as a negotiation tool.  

  • Real Estate Agent · West Chester, PA · Member since 2018 · 63 posts · 46 votes
    7y

    @Victor S.

    In my area appraisers require that rooms have closets to be called bedrooms.

  • Rental Property Investor · Jacksonville, Florida Area · Member since 2016 · 106 posts · 48 votes
    7y
    @Laura Williams Thanks, I'm not sure what the minimum size is for a closet here in Florida.
  • Investor · FL · Member since 2017 · 266 posts · 220 votes
    7y

    @Mason Wade Morris

    I would ask for an extension on your contingency period.

    Find any available microfilm from city or tax jacket from taxing authority.

    If i understand right your 2nd/potential 3rd bed doesnt have a window.

    In my area I would immediately be concerned about the 2nd bath as well. If its a true 1 bed then why the 2nd bath? They dont build 1bed/2baths in south florida.

  • Real Estate Agent · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    @Account Closed Thanks for the recommendation, you are correct that the duplex is/was originally a 2 bedroom - 2 bathroom on each side.  However, I believe when originally built there was a small courtyard (roughly 10'x10') with a sliding glass door leading from the bedroom to the outside courtyard.  My guess is that since it led to outside it met code when it was built, but probably still doesn't qualify for code now.  At some point an owner decided to close it in, I presume to increase square footage, and potentially reduce roof leaks in this area.

    The only reason I say this is because the seller has another duplex that is the same type of build down the street (I was hoping to purchase as well). See the photo below to see what I am talking about (each bedroom outlined in orange).

  • Rental Property Investor · Jacksonville, Florida Area · Member since 2016 · 106 posts · 48 votes
    7y
    @Mason Wade Morris Thank you Mason, that's great information!
  • Real Estate Agent · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 5 votes
    7y

    Hi everyone,

    Since a lot of posts I read are left open ended and I often wonder what the end result is, I wanted to close out this post with the results.

    I requested that they add windows to the bedrooms in accordance with the code R310 (along with other things that came out in the inspection). They assured me that since it has two doors and a closet it is indeed a bedroom.  They didn't offer to pay for a 3rd of the things that needed to be fixed prior to renting not including the windows so I had to walk away.  Windows or not, they would not make any adjustments for foundation, roof repairs, and would only treat for termites on one unit.

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