How I used $38k to generate $17k per year with $26k per year potential

How I used $38k to generate $17k per year with $26k per year potential

gainesville, FL · Member since 2011 · 22 posts · 0 votes

For years I have read about real estate investing but never had the funds to get the ball rolling. I finally had some extras cash laying around and needed to put it somewhere so I decided to pull the trigger and buy my first investment property.

The house that I found was 15 years old, had been on the market for 2 years and was valued around $280k. It was multiplex with a total square footage of around 5000. Upon further investigation I found out it was a foreclosure.

The bank was asking $150k. The house was not maintained at all and had many small issues such as leaky sinks, paint, deck issues, exterior doors, leaky gutters etc. I sent the bank a low ball offer of $75K. They responded with a counter offer of $100k, final offer. I accepted.

Once we were locked into contract I spent 6 hours with an inspector, looking over every square inch of the house. After confirming that there were no major structural issues I proceeded with the deal.

Being an investment property, the bank wanted 25% down ($25k). My closing cost were around $5k.

After closing I spent 8 weeks and $5k fixing everything in the first 2 units. In the meantime I started marketing the house with for rent signs, news paper ads, Craigslist, and several other internet sites. By the time the first two units were completed I had 2 well qualified grade A renters paying $725 each per month.

The third unit is currently being renovated with a total renovation cost of $3k. This unit will rent for $650 per month.

With $700 total in operating expenses and $2,100 per month coming in, this house will be generating $17k net income this year.

This deal gets even better. There is currently an integrated garage that is set up to be finished off. The total unfinished square footage is 1700sqft. I estimate that it will cost around $25k to finish off and will generate an additional $650 per month. I plan to use the rental income generated for 1.5 years to finish off the basement.

When it is all said and done, I will have a total of $38k of my own money and $25k of my renter’s money generating a whopping total net income of $26,600 per year!

I can see how real estate investing can be addicting!

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J ScottPro Member
Moderator
Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
14y
Originally posted by Michael Mcguniess:
This would make my expense ratio around 38%

Am I forgetting anything here?

Yup, lots of stuff...

What about capital costs (depending on the area and property, you'll likely spend at least $20,000 every 20 years to replace roofs, HVAC units, water heaters, etc)?

What about maintenance costs (fixing leaking toilets, etc)?

What about turnover costs (when a tenant leaves, you'll likely have to paint, replace some flooring, repair or replace cabinets/countertops, etc)?

What about utilities (when the units are empty, I assume you'll need to pay for these)?

Then there's lawn care, CPA/attorney costs, termite treatments, etc. And any extra surprises that you assume can't happen (like evictions).

In general, operating expenses plus vacancy and capital costs will fall somewhere in the 45-55% range (based on both my experiences, experiences of others I know, experiences of others I've heard about and national averages I've seen). This does *NOT* include debt service.

A lot of times here on BP, we talk about "the 50% rule," which is basically just shorthand for assuming all expenses will come in around 50% of gross rents. Could be more, could be less, but over a long period of ownership, it's a reasonable estimate.

So, if your gross rents are $33K/year, your NOI is likely somewhere in the $17K/year range. Subtract debt service (P&I), and I'm guessing your cash-flow is somewhere in the $12-14K range.

Your all-in costs to generate that $12-14K in cash-flow is your $38K investment plus the $25K to finish off the fourth unit, or a total of $63K.

That puts your cash-on-cash return at somewhere around 20%. Not a bad deal...

See this reply in the discussion

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  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Michael Mcguniess:

    With $700 total in operating expenses and $2,100 per month coming in, this house will be generating $17k net income this year.

    This indicates an expense ratio of about 33%, which is extremely low unless you're doing the property management and maintenance yourself (in which case, you need to factor that time/effort into your equation).

    The reason your expense ratio seems so low is that you have just rehabbed a couple units and just started filling vacancies. You haven't factored in future vacancy, rent loss, capital expenses, etc. into your equation, which would likely take your expense ratio to somewhere closer to 45-55%, or earning about $1000-1200/month before debt service.

    Speaking of debt service, you mentioned a $75K loan, but nowhere in your post have you mentioned your debt service payments -- they will detract from your cash flow and cash-on-cash return.

    Not saying this is a bad deal -- I just don't think you've analyzed it correctly to determine how good (or bad) of a deal it is).

  • gainesville, FL · Member since 2011 · 22 posts · 0 votes
    14y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by Michael Mcguniess:

    With $700 total in operating expenses and $2,100 per month coming in, this house will be generating $17k net income this year.

    This indicates an expense ratio of about 33%, which is extremely low unless you're doing the property management and maintenance yourself (in which case, you need to factor that time/effort into your equation).

    The reason your expense ratio seems so low is that you have just rehabbed a couple units and just started filling vacancies. You haven't factored in future vacancy, rent loss, capital expenses, etc. into your equation, which would likely take your expense ratio to somewhere closer to 45-55%, or earning about $1000-1200/month before debt service.

    Speaking of debt service, you mentioned a $75K loan, but nowhere in your post have you mentioned your debt service payments -- they will detract from your cash flow and cash-on-cash return.

    Not saying this is a bad deal -- I just don't think you've analyzed it correctly to determine how good (or bad) of a deal it is).

    As for debt services, my PITI is $650 per month which was included in the operating cost of $700.

    I agree, I failed to factor in rent loss, the vacancy factor, capital expenses, etc. What percentage do you typically use when calculating these costs?

  • Investor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2010 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    14y

    Despite the canned answers usually touted on BP, the expense ratios do vary some with area of the country and class of property. Is this a D class property? Why was it a REO to begin with? What happened with the guy that lost it to the bank?

  • gainesville, FL · Member since 2011 · 22 posts · 0 votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Bryan Hancock:
    Despite the canned answers usually touted on BP, the expense ratios do vary some with area of the country and class of property. Is this a D class property? Why was it a REO to begin with? What happened with the guy that lost it to the bank?

    This is an above average property in a highly sought after area. In other words its not a slum property. My 2 tenants have credit scores above 700 and earn a respectable income over $60k each.

    From what I gather the previous owner got in over his head. His bankruptcy filing shows that he lost over $3 million in property which includes the house I purchased.

  • gainesville, FL · Member since 2011 · 22 posts · 0 votes
    14y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by Michael Mcguniess:

    With $700 total in operating expenses and $2,100 per month coming in, this house will be generating $17k net income this year.

    This indicates an expense ratio of about 33%, which is extremely low unless you're doing the property management and maintenance yourself (in which case, you need to factor that time/effort into your equation).

    The reason your expense ratio seems so low is that you have just rehabbed a couple units and just started filling vacancies. You haven't factored in future vacancy, rent loss, capital expenses, etc. into your equation, which would likely take your expense ratio to somewhere closer to 45-55%, or earning about $1000-1200/month before debt service.

    Speaking of debt service, you mentioned a $75K loan, but nowhere in your post have you mentioned your debt service payments -- they will detract from your cash flow and cash-on-cash return.

    Not saying this is a bad deal -- I just don't think you've analyzed it correctly to determine how good (or bad) of a deal it is).

    Lets try this again, this time assuming that I have all 4 units rented (2 @ $725, 2 @ $650) This property will generate $33,000 per year before any expenses.

    Here are the expenses (annually):

    PITI : $7,800 ($650 per month)
    Property management : $3,300 ($275 monthly)
    Vacancy factor: $1400 (2 unit, 1 month per year) – highly sought after area
    Rent loss: virtually non existent – good tenants with good credit

    Total of $12,500 in expenses per year not including capital expenses

    $33,000 - $12,500 = $20,500 per year (minus capital expenses)

    This would make my expense ratio around 38%

    Am I forgetting anything here?

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Michael Mcguniess:
    This would make my expense ratio around 38%

    Am I forgetting anything here?

    Yup, lots of stuff...

    What about capital costs (depending on the area and property, you'll likely spend at least $20,000 every 20 years to replace roofs, HVAC units, water heaters, etc)?

    What about maintenance costs (fixing leaking toilets, etc)?

    What about turnover costs (when a tenant leaves, you'll likely have to paint, replace some flooring, repair or replace cabinets/countertops, etc)?

    What about utilities (when the units are empty, I assume you'll need to pay for these)?

    Then there's lawn care, CPA/attorney costs, termite treatments, etc. And any extra surprises that you assume can't happen (like evictions).

    In general, operating expenses plus vacancy and capital costs will fall somewhere in the 45-55% range (based on both my experiences, experiences of others I know, experiences of others I've heard about and national averages I've seen). This does *NOT* include debt service.

    A lot of times here on BP, we talk about "the 50% rule," which is basically just shorthand for assuming all expenses will come in around 50% of gross rents. Could be more, could be less, but over a long period of ownership, it's a reasonable estimate.

    So, if your gross rents are $33K/year, your NOI is likely somewhere in the $17K/year range. Subtract debt service (P&I), and I'm guessing your cash-flow is somewhere in the $12-14K range.

    Your all-in costs to generate that $12-14K in cash-flow is your $38K investment plus the $25K to finish off the fourth unit, or a total of $63K.

    That puts your cash-on-cash return at somewhere around 20%. Not a bad deal...

  • Investor · Duncansville, PA · Member since 2011 · 26 posts · 5 votes
    14y

    i did not see RE taxes and insurance either

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Payson, AZ · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Vince Greenland:
    i did not see RE taxes and insurance either
    Originally posted by Michael Mcguniess:

    PITI : $7,800 ($650 per month)
  • Jesse PollPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · St George, UT · Member since 2012 · 78 posts · 8 votes
    14y

    Thanks for this thread. Very informative.

  • Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 450 votes
    14y

    It's pretty tough to accurately predict what your actual expenses will be. So, you really can't tout how much money you made until after you made it. If you use the 50 percent rule, which is probably about as accurate of a crystal ball as any other method (and will still not hit the mark on many individual years) then, of your gross rents you would have 1050/month to count toward your debt service (principal and interest) and the remaining toward your cash flow.

    So, I can't tell what percent of your PITI is T&I, but I would guess it is around 300/month. So,you might, more conservatively estimate your future return to be about 700-800 per month which would be about 8400 to 9600 per year. Add to this your mortgage pay down plus any additional money you earn doing your own property management and maintenance and you are likely over 10,000 per year. I still think you made a solid investment.

  • Investor · Rancho Cucamonga, CA · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 684 votes
    14y

    Why is everyone beating this guy up so bad? Not all of his numbers are right but it seems like he got a great deal.

    Good work Michael. After about 10 of those you probably could retire.

    I am really surprised the bank came off 33%. Why do you think no one else offered on it? Getting 2,700 rent for 130k total is pretty good.

  • Real Estate Investor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2011 · 252 posts · 56 votes
    14y

    Nobody is beating this guy up. The other responses are merely advising him that his costs will be higher than he expects in the future so he should be socking away the proper amount of cash just in case he needs to replace a roof, ac unit etc.
    He's got about a 12 cap property using the 50% rule. The tenants sound great as well which will be a great blessing to him as well as this is his first property.

  • gainesville, FL · Member since 2011 · 22 posts · 0 votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Brian Adamson:
    Who's paying for the utilites...heat, electric and water? I'd also include professional fees..accountant and legal as well and a monthly repair and maintence exp as well.

    Each unit has its own meters, therefore all utilities are tenant paid. I will perform all repairs so this cost is whatever I would like to pay myself per hour.

  • gainesville, FL · Member since 2011 · 22 posts · 0 votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Steve L.:
    Why is everyone beating this guy up so bad? Not all of his numbers are right but it seems like he got a great deal.

    Good work Michael. After about 10 of those you probably could retire.

    I am really surprised the bank came off 33%. Why do you think no one else offered on it? Getting 2,700 rent for 130k total is pretty good.

    The bank sat on this house for 2 years. From my understanding less than 3 people looked at this house and there were no offers.

    I believe no one else made an offer on it because although the house is only 15 years old, zero maintenance was performed. Every faucet had to be replaced, door seals were shot, many rooms needed flooring, paint, etc. I worked on the house for 8 solid weeks just to get it up to par.

    I am still in disbelief this house sat for so long without an offer. After owning it for a few months, I still have found no surprises.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 18k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Steve L.:
    Why is everyone beating this guy up so bad? Not all of his numbers are right but it seems like he got a great deal.

    Not beating him up at all...just trying to educate a bit, so that next time he does a deal we don't need to beat him up... :)

    As I ended my last post with, his COC return is probably around 20%, which is pretty good, especially for a first deal (just not as good as he originally thought).

  • Involved In Real Estate · Rochester Hills, MI · Member since 2010 · 812 posts · 178 votes
    14y

    I don't see him getting beat up.

    There is so much inventory out there. Floor, paint, faucets aren't going to drive investors away. The total cost of doing it all could of however. Not every investor wants to be a contractor like you've chosen to do. Had you hired the work out, your rehab would be a ton more. Like you said, 8 weeks of your life dedicated to getting this back up to shape. Had you come out of pocket on your repairs for labor, your CoC rate would be much lower. Regardless, 20% CoC is great. Keep plugging and on your next deal budget as if you HAD to hire out the work. Then, any work you do yourself you are "Paying yourself" for the work you did.

  • gainesville, FL · Member since 2011 · 22 posts · 0 votes
    14y
    Originally posted by J Scott:
    Originally posted by Steve L.:
    Why is everyone beating this guy up so bad? Not all of his numbers are right but it seems like he got a great deal.

    Not beating him up at all...just trying to educate a bit, so that next time he does a deal we don't need to beat him up... :)

    As I ended my last post with, his COC return is probably around 20%, which is pretty good, especially for a first deal (just not as good as he originally thought).

    I have to admit, my numbers may be off but I still feel good about the deal that I made. Perhaps I should have titled my post differently and not made such a bold claim.

    Thanks for all of the great information. I am after all new to the game and may have jumped the gun making such claims. What can I say; I’m excited about my first deal.

  • Investor · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2011 · 68 posts · 12 votes
    14y

    Michael, it sounds like you bought correctly - congrats on your success!

    It is addicting to have that extra money coming in!

  • gainesville, FL · Member since 2011 · 22 posts · 0 votes
    14y
    Originally posted by Jason Kosowan:
    Michael, it sounds like you bought correctly - congrats on your success!

    It is addicting to have that extra money coming in!

    Thank you Jason

  • Real Estate Investor · Little Elm, TX · Member since 2012 · 8 posts · 1 vote
    14y
    Originally posted by Michael Mcguniess:
    I am after all new to the game and may have jumped the gun making such claims. What can I say; I’m excited about my first deal.

    From one noob to another, good job! I'm just starting my REI education. I hope I can get as good a deal done the first time. Don't know that I want my first deal to be a buy and hold though. :)

    One thing I learned back in 1989 when I bought my first home, which happened to be a REO, was that banks aren't in the RE business so they don't want to hold properties and may well end up selling for what was owed on their loan. Low balling the offer was an excellent way to go!

  • Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    14y

    go gators!

    class of 99

  • Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2008 · 244 posts · 36 votes
    14y

    Congrats on your first deal. This is the way I started, do the rehab yourself and learn as you go. This gives a great understanding of the rehab process so you know what to pay if you hire contractors or laborers in the future. Now on to your next deal! Be sure to let us know about it.

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