BP is for beginners, BRO

BP is for beginners, BRO

Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes

Yesterday there was a new post made by an experienced real estate investor whose sole purpose was to take a dump on new investors for no reason other than to feed a delicate ego.

So I felt it appropriate to say my thanks to Biggerpockets for teaching me so much about Real estate when I knew absolutely nothing, and with the massive influx of new members lately, I want to express my opinion that BP is mainly for beginners.

I started out like every investor here does: stupid and driven by ego, but AMBITIOUS to learn and get started. Now I own a bunch of rentals, an apartment building, I've made a ton of great real life friends here, I was on the podcast, and my business is growing faster every day. So if you're new, know that spending time here has nearly a guaranteed return on investment. 

It's also OK TO BE NEW. There are a lot of experienced people who contribute heavily here but the overwhelming majority are new people, and that's who the site is geared towards helping. New investors should feel the most empowered to participate and and post, this is the place to get guidance and there ZERO experience or knowledge requirement to post. I think it's counterproductive to the community to create a situation where the experienced people are laughing at new people, it's also sleazy and embarrassing. 

If you're new, it's ok to post things that might sound stupid. I say embarrassing and stupid things all the time, and I would CRINGE to go through my early post history, but that's ok because we get better as we go, and that's the whole point. Some people will might try to make you feel bad about it, that's just part of human nature, and it's not representative of what BP is trying to do. 

Overall, this is a magical place. So thank you BP, if this place hadn't make me feel ok to be a stupid beginner I would have never been able to grow to where I am now. 

@Mindy Jensen  @Russell Brazil  @Spencer Cornelia  @Jay Hinrichs  

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Russell BrazilBusiness Member
Moderator
Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
6y

Yup. All of us are in different points in our journey. Every investor started with their first purchase. I actually use to feel the pressure to do what some other "big" investors were doing.  Then I became more comfortable with what I was doing, and was like I think Ill just do what I like, and not let these other dudes pressure me into doing what they are doing.  The majority of landlords in the country are small mom and pop investors with 1-3 rentals. Nothing wrong with that. Those people are likely going to end up being millionaires when they retire.

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    6y

    Yup. All of us are in different points in our journey. Every investor started with their first purchase. I actually use to feel the pressure to do what some other "big" investors were doing.  Then I became more comfortable with what I was doing, and was like I think Ill just do what I like, and not let these other dudes pressure me into doing what they are doing.  The majority of landlords in the country are small mom and pop investors with 1-3 rentals. Nothing wrong with that. Those people are likely going to end up being millionaires when they retire.

  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    This is the most meta-Bro post ever. This is peak Bro. You could have made the whole post without referencing me at all or slinging several personal insults. It's meta-Bro when you talk about a post bringing down BP and then trash the OP like a school boy in the post. You missed the point of the post.

    New investor get way too much back patting and yessing along and that enables them to make terrible decisions. Many people are super-helpful on BP, but there are also MANY people selling coaching or their REI program and they encourage investors to follow any path the ends up with them getting money.

    I don't think all posts need to be hearts and flowers for the journey because when the market takes a dive again, Bros are going to be in trouble because they are overextended and overencouraged to keep getting doors instead of building their first investment into something that flows better year after year. Everyone can't invest. Many people need to pump the brakes. Just because you think Broke is a Choice doesn't mean some people won't go broke by making the wrong choice.

    We all don't have to agree, but if you can't find humor and respond to alleged negativity in other posts with your own post with an outright personal attack guised in the community aspect and obvious suck up to BP (including @ to the people who run it), you are just doing meta-Bro, bro. Are you trying to sell new investors on something perhaps?

    And if BP was for beginners only, there would be no one to learn from.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Russell Brazil:

    Yup. All of us are in different points in our journey. Every investor started with their first purchase. I actually use to feel the pressure to do what some other "big" investors were doing.  Then I became more comfortable with what I was doing, and was like I think Ill just do what I like, and not let these other dudes pressure me into doing what they are doing.  The majority of landlords in the country are small mom and pop investors with 1-3 rentals. Nothing wrong with that. Those people are likely going to end up being millionaires when they retire.

    if they buy in high priced markets 1 to 3 rentals that are purchased in the low value asset markets that never appreciate.. not so sure those will set up rosy retirements  LOL

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Jonathan Greene:

    This is the most meta-Bro post ever. This is peak Bro. You could have made the whole post without referencing me at all or slinging several personal insults. It's meta-Bro when you talk about a post bringing down BP and then trash the OP like a school boy in the post. You missed the point of the post.

    New investor get way too much back patting and yessing along and that enables them to make terrible decisions. Many people are super-helpful on BP, but there are also MANY people selling coaching or their REI program and they encourage investors to follow any path the ends up with them getting money.

    I don't think all posts need to be hearts and flowers for the journey because when the market takes a dive again, Bros are going to be in trouble because they are overextended and overencouraged to keep getting doors instead of building their first investment into something that flows better year after year. Everyone can't invest. Many people need to pump the brakes. Just because you think Broke is a Choice doesn't mean some people won't go broke by making the wrong choice.

    We all don't have to agree, but if you can't find humor and respond to alleged negativity in other posts with your own post with an outright personal attack guised in the community aspect and obvious suck up to BP (including @ to the people who run it), you are just doing meta-Bro, bro. Are you trying to sell new investors on something perhaps?

    And if BP was for beginners only, there would be no one to learn from.

    Another way to look at it.. is if everyone was a landlord or owned their own domicile there would be no need for landlords apartments rental houses etc.. half the population basically rents the other half own.  there are many who still rent but buy rentals.. which I guess in cheapo and non appreciating markets that's OK.. but I personally  look back and the properties I bought in the SF bay area through the decades have made me millions just buy owning a home to live in.. that's where real estate makes millions for those who are going to retire. you buy in the right areas to begin with.. OR you do need to amass doors and go through the landlord process..  or you can skip that and flip or build new or buy and sell paper or just broker real estate with no financial commitments to lenders etc.. I know plenty of agents that knock down 500k a year for basically theit entire life.. who needs 200 a month cash flow U make that kind of money basically all on referrals.. ???? Same with really good mortgage brokers and paper buyers and sellers. LOTS more to real estate than just being a collector of doors that make you 200.oo a month.. nothing wrong with it.. its the easiest for folks to understand and the easiest to finance.  But there is a big ole world out there in real estate and if BP is anything its basically a cash flow landlord site.. 

  • Specialist · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2012 · 865 posts · 351 votes
    6y

    @Alexander Felice I think you over exaggerated on the poster in question motives and interntions. I have read many of your post in the past and voted for many of them, but yours here was a bit much. 

  • Alexander FelicePro Member
    OP
    Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Joel S.

    I think this post is consistent with my overall personality: disagreeable, and overboard on everything. 😁

    As for motive, I'm just here to make good TV.

  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    Weird flex but ok

  • Stephanie P.Pro Member
    Washington, DC Mortgage Lender/Broker · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    @Jonathan Greene

    I liked your original post.  I thought it was a nuanced way of telling new investors to do their homework, read, build teams and then act rather than the other way around.  Many in the thread took the ball and ran with it in the post and at times, it was a bit much.  I did laugh at many of the different posts, but it's only because some of those "bro investor" moments brought back flashes of stupidity I've heard (and said) over the years.

    I actually liked @Alexander Felice's post also (although I think he missed the mark on evaluating your post) and I agree that it's good to pay homage to BP.  It's been a tremendous asset to my business as well as many others.

    Merry Christmas

    Stephanie

  • Real Estate Agent · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2017 · 814 posts · 466 votes
    6y

    100% agreed with your post.  Anyone how feels is a waste of time, even for the most seasoned investor, they will be missing on networking, not to mention other perks BP offers.  

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Alexander Felice:

    Yesterday there was a new post made by an experienced real estate investor whose sole purpose was to take a dump on new investors for no reason other than to feed a delicate ego.

    So I felt it appropriate to say my thanks to Biggerpockets for teaching me so much about Real estate when I knew absolutely nothing, and with the massive influx of new members lately, I want to express my opinion that BP is mainly for beginners.

    I started out like every investor here does: stupid and driven by ego, but AMBITIOUS to learn and get started. Now I own a bunch of rentals, an apartment building, I've made a ton of great real life friends here, I was on the podcast, and my business is growing faster every day. So if you're new, know that spending time here has nearly a guaranteed return on investment. 

    It's also OK TO BE NEW. There are a lot of experienced people who contribute heavily here but the overwhelming majority are new people, and that's who the site is geared towards helping. New investors should feel the most empowered to participate and and post, this is the place to get guidance and there ZERO experience or knowledge requirement to post. I think it's counterproductive to the community to create a situation where the experienced people are laughing at new people, it's also sleazy and embarrassing. 

    If you're new, it's ok to post things that might sound stupid. I say embarrassing and stupid things all the time, and I would CRINGE to go through my early post history, but that's ok because we get better as we go, and that's the whole point. Some people will might try to make you feel bad about it, that's just part of human nature, and it's not representative of what BP is trying to do. 

    Overall, this is a magical place. So thank you BP, if this place hadn't make me feel ok to be a stupid beginner I would have never been able to grow to where I am now. 

    @Mindy Jensen  @Russell Brazil  @Spencer Cornelia  @Jay Hinrichs  

    BP is a good place. But it can be challenging dealing with some of the members here...

    what!!

    :)

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    dude if you think this was much.. you should see MY posts!!

    OMG the trouble I get into here! I heard that my list of warnings is bigger than my Ego!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    From the Bro investor post-

    "Yes, everyone has to start somewhere, but the problem with the Bro Investor is that he is ruining good deals for the other real wholesalers and off-market experts in the area."

    He's bitching people are ruining the market by over paying. I agree, people are overpaying these days, but I'm not sure how he though his post was going to do anything about that. Maybe he just wanted to vent.

    I take the stand that NO ONE is over paying  these are willing buyers willing sellers.. markets move up.. why else would anyone buy real estate ?? to have the assets devalue or never go up.. that would be a poor investment I would think.

  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Account Closed that quote that David pulled out was about wholesaling. My contention is that non-distressed off-market sellers who do not HAVE to sell can get turned off selling by an inexperienced wholesaler who does everything wrong. Then the other wholesalers in the market have to either try to clean up their mess or wait. And sure, that's all business, but that was the point of that one quote.

    I also made this point in multiple follow-ups, it's not about supply and demand. Of course, the market itself dictates the sale. Specifically for bro investors and the original post, they sometimes are acting and buying on bravado and false information so even though that creates a current market value, it was inflated based on lack of knowledge. And when that happens, the value comes back down and jams up everyone else on the block who thought they were going up only to realize the overpayment prices were not sustainable and it comes back down.

    So many people are buying RE now as a flex and ignoring signs of bad investments. I know it's stupid, but it happens every day. That was all a part of the OP. I see it in every market. People want to win, they want to be a REI, they can get the financing so they go up, but there are trickle down effects to constant overbidding in a market. It can't sustain overvaluation. Supply and demand shifts and then everyone is pissed.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y

    @Jonathan Greene  i have made this statement many times.. so sorry for saying I again.

    there is no question some markets are what my old logging partner called a false market.. for us it was the middle 90s when the Japanese were paying double what the local mills would pay for a clean number 1 sort log.. the locals mills still got there logs at say 500 to 600 bucks when all you had to do was talk to the export buyers who were paying 900 t 1200 .. So as it relates to SFR's in many of the cash flow markets locals will only pay one price but you import outside investors and they will pay another.. because so much inventory is sold off market or Off MLS @Russell Brazil  Like where Russ works there is not nearly the amount of off market deals you use the MLS .. and it goes to the sophistication of the sellers many times or if they are burnt out landlords with vacant properties that wholesalers pick up we all know the kind.  so real estate is totally regional in many ways.. 

  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Jay Hinrichs agree on that all. It's just that the smaller markets adjust both ways much quicker and with much more of an effect on all owners.

  • Broomfield, CO · Member since 2012 · 47 posts · 43 votes
    6y

    My fellow gen X’ers can relate

  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Account Closed find that quote in my posts, please, that no one who overpays is a willing buyer. 

  • Specialist · Miami, FL · Member since 2018 · 2 posts · 2 votes
    6y

    @Alexander Felice Thank you for this post!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    From the Bro investor post-

    "Yes, everyone has to start somewhere, but the problem with the Bro Investor is that he is ruining good deals for the other real wholesalers and off-market experts in the area."

    He's bitching people are ruining the market by over paying. I agree, people are overpaying these days, but I'm not sure how he though his post was going to do anything about that. Maybe he just wanted to vent.

    I take the stand that NO ONE is over paying  these are willing buyers willing sellers.. markets move up.. why else would anyone buy real estate ?? to have the assets devalue or never go up.. that would be a poor investment I would think.

    Just for the record, you claim no one who's a willing buyer overpays in Real Estate? This is your claim?

    Not making any claims or proclamations.  value is described as willing buyer willing seller.. now if there is fraud or misrepresentation involved that's totally a separate matter..  

  • WorldWide · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Usually when somebody gets so worked up about something (especially an online post), there must be something there. I took Jonathan's post as mostly satire with some truth nuggets in there. I can see why someone listening to Grant Cardone and the rest of the gang could be upset about the actual truth (i.e., it's not all cash and exotic cars, it's broken furnaces and plumbing), instead of flashy 10Xs and other mambo-jumbo lingo. Carry on, though. It's a rainy day here, and I quite like your back-and-forth on this subject. 

  • Sippy HiraPro Member
    Professional · Bothell, WA · Member since 2016 · 25 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    @Alexander Felice - love the words of encouragement. We are all new to something at some point in our career. Being a newbie myself, I listen to BP podcasts every day on my commute and read these forums to learn as much as I can. We all have to start somewhere to begin our journey!

    Sippy

  • Rental Property Investor · Yakima, WA · Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    @Jonathan Greene I love bluebery pancakes

  • Jonathan GreeneBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Madison, NJ · Member since 2016 · 6k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    @Roman Roy Barrett welcome to BP! Congratulations on starting your real estate investment journey. If you are in the market for blueberry pancakes, I know a guy who knows a guy where you can get them. There is also a coaching program on how to acquire blueberry pancakes and several webinars on the same. It seems like you are off to a great start.

  • Rental Property Investor · Yakima, WA · Member since 2019 · 15 posts · 4 votes
    6y

    @Jonathan Greene lol thank you

  • Rental Property Investor · Concord, GA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Well, I guess if no one has any valuable content to fill a BP thread, we can just argue about stuff. It's sort of the norm on internet forums so carry on ya'll.

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