Things to watch out for with older houses?
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Investor · SC NC, VA · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 756 votes
6y- Knob and tube wiring, screw-in fuses, low amperage feed to building
- The historical designation prohibits freedom to renovate with modern materials
- unlined chimneys
- egress does not meet modern code (e.g. window opening size, 2nd egress from bedrooms)
- cast iron internal waste or water feed lines
- outlets are out of code (GFI for washers, over counters, in washrooms)
- hardwired, interconnected fire alarms may now be required
- old underground utilities or oil tanks that are not known
- dry rot in floors from old water leaks
- trees have deep roots that entangle waste lines
- nothing, absolutely nothing, is plumb anymore. Expect nothing to fit nicely (replacement windows, kitchen cabinets)
15 Replies
- Investor · SC NC, VA · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 756 votes6y
- Knob and tube wiring, screw-in fuses, low amperage feed to building
- The historical designation prohibits freedom to renovate with modern materials
- unlined chimneys
- egress does not meet modern code (e.g. window opening size, 2nd egress from bedrooms)
- cast iron internal waste or water feed lines
- outlets are out of code (GFI for washers, over counters, in washrooms)
- hardwired, interconnected fire alarms may now be required
- old underground utilities or oil tanks that are not known
- dry rot in floors from old water leaks
- trees have deep roots that entangle waste lines
- nothing, absolutely nothing, is plumb anymore. Expect nothing to fit nicely (replacement windows, kitchen cabinets)
- Investor · PA · Member since 2019 · 54 posts · 51 votes6yTyler.... it's an OLD property. Pros: old buildings are built SOLID. They haven't gone anywhere in 100 + years. They aren't going anywhere soon. Old STRUCTURES tend to be superior to newer ones, real 2x4's etc. CONS: Plumbing...heating... wiring... all are OLD SYSTEMS.... unless were updated. If not updated...count on problems and repairs.
- 6yTyler D.Member since 2019 · 219 posts · 99 votesOP
Originally posted by @Anne Jenkins:
Tyler.... it's an OLD property. Pros: old buildings are built SOLID. They haven't gone anywhere in 100 + years. They aren't going anywhere soon. Old STRUCTURES tend to be superior to newer ones, real 2x4's etc. CONS: Plumbing...heating... wiring... all are OLD SYSTEMS.... unless were updated. If not updated...count on problems and repairs.That's good to hear. As long as the bones are solid, I'm fine replacing some things over the course of time. This house in particular was remodeled, and has new plumbing/ electrical system, so it sounds like I should be solid then?
- Investor · NJ · Member since 2018 · 869 posts · 921 votes6y
Lots of great points, but I'd like to say one thing about the "they were built better back then" philosophy..
Not always true.
First most old houses were ballon framed. The floor joists would sit on ledger boards and your studs would run the whole height of the structure. Horrible for fire protection. Usually the ledger boards were tiny in comparison to the joists they held up. Any older than that and its post and beam. Which had a tendency to rot out. Modern platform framing is far more superior.
Most old houses they dug a hole in the ground on virgin soil and never put any footings in. The mortar on a very old house usually doesnt have any portland cement mixed with it and that's why you always see old houses where the mortar seems crumbly. Those factors are why alot of old houses settle.
Another thing to look out for is old plumbing. Them old time plumbers used to notch 2/3s of a bathroom joist to run a 4" cast iron pipe for the toilet. Then they'd notch every joist over to the bathtub. Alot of the really old houses I worked in they'd then fill the spaces up between the joists with cement thinking it made it stronger. Spoiler alert, it didn't just added more weight to the cut joists. If you're place is really old alot of the waste pipes were lead pipe. A pistol snake will go right through an old lead line if its backed up.
If they insulated anything back then you were very well off and unfortunately it was probably asbestos, vermiculite, newspaper or another material that got damp and compressed no longer doing its job. Plus those are mostly hazardous.
As far as old heating systems go. It was either steam or hot water (hydronic). Steam was much more common because of price and seemed safer because of the lower pressures at the time. Unfortunately most plumbers around today dont know jack about steam systems because thats a bygone era.
my last point that I can think of offhand is that in a more rural area they probably just built thing. Probably very little thought went into how well it would work. Labor was cheap back then material was expensive. So they would cut corners wherever they could on material. Most likely it had no city inspections to make sure it was up to code back then when it was built.
Today when you build a house every little thing is inspected. We have code books that are hundreds of pages long because of problems other people had in the past.
- 6yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Stay ahead of repairs. It is cheaper to do a planned replacement for say a furnace then wait for it to go out and maybe you are dealing with a non-standard setup. Another surprise can be planking under roofing and flooring. This increases replacement cost/time because you have to lay plywood before re-roofing.
@George W. They used a lot of nice wood finishes in older homes so I guess the material cost went into what you can see.
- Rental Property Investor · Woodstock, GA · Member since 2017 · 517 posts · 772 votes6y
Biggest (most expensive) issues are
1) Obviously foundational movements
2) Sewer and water line destruction/break after 100 years. These can get expensive especially if you have to replace the whole thing. Run a camera down the lines...give a plumber a couple hundred bucks to do it.
- Rental Property Investor · TN · Member since 2018 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes6y
I invest in old houses, and have a few from 1900 to 1920.
One thing I have found that is not already listed is room additions. Quite often rooms were added as the family grew. Sometimes these rooms are not really attached to the other rooms, but built adjacent. On one house I am rehabbing we could not figure out why/how the floor was sinking the way it was. Eventually I gave up and we pulled up the hardwood floor. The 2 floors -one from one addition, one from another- were not attached to each other and they were pulling away from each other. The hardwood on top was continuous, but the subfloor was not joined.
In some houses, to put in heating and air there is no way to use one unit. The 'attic' area between the room ceiling and roofs are not connected between the additions. There are layers of old roof and eves in the area above the ceilings, even an entire porch roof in one house. Also each addition has its own footing and foundation of sorts so there is not continuous access under the house either. So duct work can not be put in above or below. I ended up with installing 1 central unit for part of a house and 2 mini-splits serving 2 rooms each for HVAC, cost of over $18k. And I have HVAC for two more old houses being rehabbed coming up this year. OUCH!
The room additions can make things much more expensive.
- Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2016 · 530 posts · 398 votes6y
I had a duplex built in the 1880-1890's and my main problem was foundation. Stay away from houses too dated.
- Investor · US · Member since 2017 · 71 posts · 80 votes6y
One thing not mentioned is lead paint. You can buy cheap and easy kits to test. I also understand retro insulation in walls can be an issue because old houses are not air/water/vapor sealed and require air flow to dry out the framing and prevent rot. Definitely inspect for termite damage. There is a lot to look out for but, at least where I live, the return is much better with older homes.
- Investor · Marion, IA · Member since 2010 · 177 posts · 117 votes6y
@Tyler D'Alessandro
Galvanized water supply piping immediately comes to mind!
This piping fills up with rust and sediment and limits the flow. I've seen water in some older houses just trickle out because the galvanized pipes.
If you have access in the basement to replace it that is not as bad but still a big expense.
- Investor · PA · Member since 2019 · 54 posts · 51 votes6y
Okay..... yep I tend to generalize and you all are right....all those things do happen with older homes. There is A LOT to consider. In my experience ....I have 13 rentals... two built in 1880-1910 and a number of the above issues did materialize. But my houses built in the 40's have given me the most headaches and surprises. I agree that if there have been add on's to older homes specifically, but in general....there are often things done wrong. But newer doesn't mean well built either. Where I live we only got building codes in the last 20 years. My husband was zoning officer 30 years ago and often was distressed by the way new houses were being built then. But no building code meant he could not do anything about it. So the code issue exists in homes even as late as the 70's maybe later depending on the area. My brother was doing construction in DC on really expensive homes 30 years ago and he told me that a lot of short cuts and substandard materials were used then....you know inspectors can be persuaded to look the other way.... so BUYER BEWARE.... hard to know what you are getting behind the walls. So far....my really old homes have been a better buy than my not so old homes.
- Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2020 · 1 post · 0 votes6y
...do a full main line / lateral line inspection - we had a 20k issue with roots after purchase.
- 6yMindy JensenPro MemberBiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
Cast Iron pipes rot from the inside-out. My sewer pipe rotted from the inside out. I discovered this when the basement was suddenly filled with disgustingness.
- Real Estate Agent · Warrior Run, PA · Member since 2016 · 341 posts · 146 votes6y
Pipes, plumbing, fixtures, outlets, wiring, foundation. as time goes you'll "investor proof" the property. What I mean is that essentially everything will eventually go or need updating depending on how long you keep the place. Update preemptively what you can that would cause operational issues and the rest will happen in dribs and drabs. When you do new cabinets and counter tops you wind up doing the plumbing too.
the biggest things are going to be the roof/foundation/siding/HVAC/Plumbing/Electric. if the bones are good, then these will just need updating over time.
THIS is why always budgeting cap ex cost in your monthly numbers is so important. its how you stabilize a building for holding.
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