Bought 175k condo in 2011, neighbor closed today for 285k. Refi or sell?

Bought 175k condo in 2011, neighbor closed today for 285k. Refi or sell?

Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 348 posts · 111 votes

August of 2011 I bought my condo for 175k. We did 5% down and spend quite a bit of money remodeling it to meet our needs. Back that time we couldn't find anything we liked, and this was cheap enough that we could spend a little extra to make it comfortable for us.

The neighbor was pending for 30 days, and today it finalized the sale for 289k. It is the same floor plan, same level, pretty much the same. He didn't remodel, mostly have the 1983 kitchen, and old appliances.
Another neighbor is also pending, it went for sale after the one above, for 315k and after talking to their agent, he said it will close escrow in a couple weeks for 315k.

I don't have plans to move right away, but in a couple years I will need a bigger place. We planned to rent this condo, when that time came. Now we are considering between selling and realizing the profit or refinancing and getting money back, and buying a second condo/house to rent.

So far the pros of refi and buying another place as rental are:
- we don't have to move, nor remodel our next place
- we don't pay taxes for what we cash out (until we sell)
- we don't have to pay real estate agent fee

What I'm afraid is to pass the opportunity to sell at a good price.
If we refi and leave 25% only (we have 50% equity), we would be able to rent it with cashflow close to 0.

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Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
13y

Emilio R,

That would be two full years plus a day that you LIVED IN IT. 731 days.

It is called the Section 121 Exclusion (Home Sale Exclusion).

-Steven

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  • Homeowner · El Paso, TX · Member since 2012 · 81 posts · 22 votes
    13y

    This is merely my 2 cents:

    You purchased it in 2011 and it's selling for quite a bit more now. Most things I'm reading are pointing to the housing market being a sellers market now, so overall prices should start to go up.

    That being said, waiting on appreciation is typically a gamble unless you know your market well.

    What -I- would do, since you already stated that the possible cashflow would be close to 0, is wait until you hit your 2 year mark in your condo, then sell it. Maybe even try for a little bit higher than the going market price since you're not in a hurry to move. At least then, you get whatever capital gains off the condo tax-free.

    Then move on to another property. Maybe something that could actually cashflow if the time/need comes for you to move.

    Again just my 2 cents.

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Rafael,

    It's a little premature to sell now in my opinion. Real estate doesn't go up only one year. Its run typically lasts about 3-5 years. Here is the catch. When you cash out on this condo, you will likely overpay for the single family house at that time. My suggestion is to do a refinance or cash out refinance and get rid of that PMI since you only put 5% down. That should save you some money.

  • Real Estate Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2009 · 183 posts · 153 votes
    13y

    Just make sure you hit your 2 year anniversary before you sell so you can pocket the profit tax free.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 348 posts · 111 votes
    13y

    Michael P. can you explain what you mean by tax free?

  • Real Estate Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2009 · 183 posts · 153 votes
    13y

    I just found this on google which seems to explain it pretty well.

    http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/avoid-capital-gains-tax-selling-home-29901.html

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 348 posts · 111 votes
    13y

    Thank you! I wasn't aware of that.

  • Contractor · Denver, CO · Member since 2009 · 399 posts · 166 votes
    13y

    I remember reading in one of John Reeds books that the irs has no definition of what defines a two year period and for tax purposes that can be as little as one year and a day. Anyone read this before or know if there is a more precise definition by the IRS.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 732 votes
    13y

    Congrats on getting some good appreciation. Looks like homes in SoCal have already gone up a lot in a short period.

    If you sold would you be buying another house in San Diego?

    If you refinanced would you be buying a rental property in San Diego?..

    I don't know the San Diego market too well..but im guess it's going to be hard to cashflow there as well.

    I wouldn't worry about prices falling again...it seems that people now have the mentality that it's a great time to buy a home now that prices have gone up...and things seem to be trending up.

    I would definitely wait until you've owned 2 years before selling for tax reasons as well.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    I'd wait and revisit the issue again this summer. If it's been your primary residence for the past two years, you'll pay no tax on the gains if you sell after August.

    While I agree with Minh L. that appreciation swings usually go up for longer than a year, I'm not too sure about this particular time in So Cal. We could be in a mini-bubble. Good financing has to stay available in order for prices to continue to go up. Interest rates are low, but if we run into any strange regulations that limit buyers' ability to get loans, things will slow down. Interest rates were reasonable when the lending slowed down in 2008. I doubt will see anything as bad as that again, but banking/lending is a wild card. Just my opinion.

    Regardless, you'll want to have a plan for your replacement property. If you're planning to live long term in the new house, then you can commit to buying the right house in the right area. While it will need to be affordable, you can be less concerned about whether you overpay or not. I'm guessing that SFHs in the better areas of SD are hot right now. So keep your eye on property values for both your condo and the areas where you would like to move.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 348 posts · 111 votes
    13y

    Joseph M, Yes on both. I would buy my home and a rental in SD.

    There are still houses that would cashflow in San Diego, given you can get a good rate on the loan and do 25%. Rent here is really high.

  • Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Emilio R,

    That would be two full years plus a day that you LIVED IN IT. 731 days.

    It is called the Section 121 Exclusion (Home Sale Exclusion).

    -Steven

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 348 posts · 111 votes
    13y

    Steven Hamilton II, I remodeled before I moved in. That took around 2 months. Should I account that as well? How can they measure if I never rented it?

  • Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Rafael Floresta,

    No, that remodel time would not count unless you were actually residing at the premises.

    -Steven

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    13y

    Hi Kristine,

    I agree with you that we're having a mini-bubble now. My theory is that we will have another nice run up this spring and summer. Things should slow down this 4th quarter. Next year will be a buyer's market. It will remain a buyer's market till mid 2015. The next market top is 2018-2020. Hope I'm correct since I'm going all in here in NorCal. Kind of like go big or go home kind of thing.

    Nervously crossing my fingers. :)

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 732 votes
    13y

    Not disagreeing but why do you think next year will be a buyer's market? It seems like that would be pretty quick since the seller's market started pretty recently?

  • Contractor · Denver, CO · Member since 2009 · 399 posts · 166 votes
    13y

    @Steven Hamilton II

    Steve - thanks for the clarification on the rule. Must be like most of the other information in my brain, half of it gets lost ;)

  • Birmingham, AL · Member since 2012 · 12 posts · 3 votes
    13y

    slightly off subject but in reference to capital tax, i've been told by a banker and accountant, (neither of which I have used, just friends of mine) that if it's your primary residence, you would not have to pay capital gains tax on the profit even if sold under the 2 year window. Am I wrong about this?

    ** just saw link above, please disregard**

  • Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Evan Crawford,

    They are wrong. You will pay based upon your tax rate. For some people that rate is 0%. It could be 0%, 15%, 20% depending upon your other income.

    There are certain exclusions to that 2 year window; however, it is prorated by the number of days lived in.

    -Steven

  • Rehabber / Flipper · Simi Valley, CA · Member since 2010 · 597 posts · 259 votes
    13y

    I think renting your current place at 0 cashflow is not the best plan. You are betting on appreciation. Prices are going up now, but what if the market drops again? Then would you sell at a loss or ride it out with 0 cashflow? And does that 0 cashflow number include buffer for expenses down the road?

    I also don't think taking more money out by refinancing is a great idea, either. That's one of the tactics that contributed to the housing collapse. Let's say you refi in 6 months when prices are high, and then they drop again and you're underwater. What then?

    If you're planning on moving anyway, like everybody else is saying, wait at least until the 2 year residence duration is up, and take advantage of continuing price increases this year.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 348 posts · 111 votes
    13y

    When I calculate my cash flow, I calculate the cost as mortgage (principal + interest) + other values. By my calculations, I consider 1 month vacant and have a 5% (80 bucks) repair cost.
    So I would be counting on appreciation and build up on the principal of the loan as profit.

    Getting money out is a way to get money for cheaper than the investor Interest rate I would get as first time landlord.

    Still not worth it?

  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Pensacola, FL · Member since 2012 · 221 posts · 49 votes
    13y

    Sell it, realize the only true "free capital gains" income the tax code allows. Steven Hamilton II is always right on the taxation rules. The amount of grossly wrong tax/legal advice passed out is insane. Go find another primary residence, buy cheap, sell high again in another two years. Rinse, repeat. Lifetime of tax free income. I'm starting to do such a program myself starting the end of this year. IMO:)

  • Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Sandy Blanton,

    I have clients who move every two years. That is how they make 90% of their living.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 348 posts · 111 votes
    13y

    Steven Hamilton II, doesn't that eventually get you broke? Eventually you will make a bad deal and be in a hard spot. How do they manage to do it? Did they survive thru 2007?

  • Accountant, Enrolled Agent · Grayslake, IL · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    @Rafael Floresta,

    They didn't buy then. They saw it didn't make sense. There was no true margin to make. They did both work during 2006-2008.

    Now she works; however, they have very little taxable income.

    It also helps when you have money to play with. Old money.

    -Steven

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 348 posts · 111 votes
    13y

    Just to follow up on it, we ended up selling it, we are currently in escrow with closing in the end of the month.

    We will use the proceeds to buy a new place, maybe even a duplex/fourplex.

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