Cash out Refi - Want to tap equity

Cash out Refi - Want to tap equity

Investor · Cape cod MA · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 9 votes

Hi everyone, this post is about my parent's situation.  They own a 4 family property.  Property is zoned as 4 but they owner occupy the renovated attic suite which has 4 bedrooms , 2 baths and 2 large common rooms.  They used to occupy one of the second floor units (1 bedroom) and the attic, the over the years started renting the 2nd floor unit(electricity is included in that unit because they don't have a separate meet for the attic suite area).  Access to the attic can be had on either side of the building but can only be accessed on one side without entering an apt (there's a common hallway area). The other side could be reconfigured for less than $5k to make a common hallway as if they ever rezoned it to make 6 legal units.

Legality issues aside, they need some equity and are considering selling. Both my parents are around 75.  My dad has been managing the property for the last 30 years.  They redid the attic about 15 years ago (carpet, basic amenities etc..). They didn't really do much to the units themselves for a long time until recently.  It (2) 2 bedroom units and (2) 1 bedroom units.  They're all good size though , the 1 bedrooms are about 1000 sq ft and the 2 befroom units are closer to 1250 sq ft.  They renovated one of the larger 2 bedrooms about 10 years ago (its a fairly nice apt) and then in the last 2 years renovated the other 3 (~$60k in renovations).  They need to access the equity and are considering selling it outright. 

Rent rolls are about $1500/month/unit = $6000/month. They could prob be getting closer to 1750/2000/month for the 2 bedroom units but use $6k/month for this exercise.  Building would prob sell for $750-900k based on comps, location etc... and probably closer to the $900k based on the location.  There is no mortgage on the property, they own it outright. A smart investor would buy it , rezone and make it a 6 family with 2 additional nice size (1200ish Sq ft 1 bedrooms in the attic suite area).

Im trying to convince my dad to keep the property and do some kind of cash out refinance. They don't need that kind of equity infusion, they wouldn't know what to do with the money, aren't great investors and is safer tied up in the appreciation of the MFR. I think there best bet is to take a new 15 year loan on $400k, get a property manager and call it a day. In this example, they would relocate to a single family property we grew up in the same town. This house has great bones (new roof, siding, windows, furnace etc.. but needs a lot of interior cosmetic work. a basic kitchen and bath reno and new drywall and flooring throughout. Call it $100k. It's not creating any revenue and wouldn't be rented for reasons not relevant here. They also own a small house in FL they split time with. The balance of their withdrawal would fund their day to day expenses for the next 10 years.

Here's my back of the envelope math, does this work?  Other thoughts on how they can access approx $400k of equity? Can they get a rate of 2.5% on a cash out refi?

- 15 year loan at 2.5% on $400k = $2688/month. 

- property manger = $6k/year (1 months rent roll) -i think that standard but not sure if there is a discount for a multi family

- Taxes = 10k/year

- water/sewer = $2k/year

-maintenance = $5k/year

Total Revenue = $72k

Total costs = $55,256

Profit = $16,744/year or ~$1400/month

Thanks in advance everyone!!

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  • Rental Property Investor · NJ and PA · Member since 2019 · 206 posts · 105 votes
    5y

    Hi @Luca Mastrangelo. For sure they shouldn't sell if before deciding how to invest the $750-900k they'd get. But what would they do with the $400k they'd pull out of a refi? They shouldn't refi without figuring that out either.

    On the question of sell or refi: To me those rental numbers don't look so good. To begin with they fail the 1% rule by quite a bit (monthly rent divided by purchase price -- or in this case, sale price). It's just a rough rule of thumb, but it suggests the property doesn't cash flow so well relative to what they'd get if they sold.

    If they take out $400k, they're leaving $350k-$500k tied up in the property. If their net income is $16,744 per year, the cash-on-cash return ranges from 3.3% ($16,744/$500k) to 4.5% ($16,744/$350k), depending on how much equity there really is. That's a pretty weak return. They could do better with a conservative mutual fund.

    I don't know your market and whether any better deals are available, but I'd consider alternatives. However if this return will support their lifestyle and there aren't better alternatives, it may be wise to refi. I'm not in a position to judge those things.

  • Investor · Cape cod MA · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 9 votes
    5y

    Hi Gary Parilis - thanks for taking the time to read my post and reply with your thoughts. 

    1. Regarding the investment , yes completely agree that they could and should just invest in a simple 3 fund portfolio but my parents are 75 and pretty stuck in their ways. They like having a hard asset. The only reason they're considering selling is because they need an infusion of liquidity. 

    2. Regarding the amount - I posted some details about this. $100k would go to renovating a separate home they'd use as home base up north for the rest of their lives. The remaining $300k would get invested into that 3 fund portfolio and they would withdraw $30k/year for day to day living over the next 10 years.

     3. They're currently stuck on either/or. Selling or holding. They see anything else as "complicated".  Spelling out the real world example for them would help them understand there's more options available. 

    my fundamental questions are:

    1. What refi rates exist for them in this scenario and what's the approx cost?

    2. Is there another better option for them to access some of the equity and still hold the property?

    thanks again

  • Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2017 · 29 posts · 25 votes
    5y

    @Luca Mastrangelo

    Whatever you do not sell. The capital gains tax will be sticker shock since you don’t plan to use a 1031 exchange. If you need money refinance some out (tax free) but do not sell and pay capital gains tax

    I don’t agree with people’s numbers on this thread. Your parents didn’t put 900,000 usd into this deal. The maybe bought it for nothing OOP and have been crushing it ever since LOL. If that really did happen you can imagine why they don’t want to sell.

  • Investor · Cape cod MA · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 9 votes
    5y
    Originally posted by @Ben Lapane:

    @Luca Mastrangelo

    Whatever you do not sell. The capital gains tax will be sticker shock since you don’t plan to use a 1031 exchange. If you need money refinance some out (tax free) but do not sell and pay capital gains tax

    I don’t agree with people’s numbers on this thread. Your parents didn’t put 900,000 usd into this deal. The maybe bought it for nothing OOP and have been crushing it ever since LOL. If that really did happen you can imagine why they don’t want to sell.

    Capitals gains would definitely have some sticker shock. They've owned the property for 30 years so the appreciation is significant. Looks like refi rates for 15-30 year aren't much different and between 4.5-4.75%

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