Is this plan pie in the sky?

Is this plan pie in the sky?

Bill B.Pro Member
Camarillo, CA · Member since 2013 · 217 posts · 86 votes

I'm trying to break the paralysis of analysis. I've done one bad deal.

I see REI as the only viable way to accumulate wealth for my family's circumstances.

1. The following is in outline form so that I don’t worry as much about the prose. We have 50k to invest.
2. We have personal POF of 100k cash.
3. We don’t want to put all our eggs in one basket.
4. We live in Southern California.
5. My plan is to cash flow in Wisconsin because I have family there.
6. I believe that Scott Walker is turning the state and prices will rise.
7. I plan to purchase in emerging or low crime established areas.
8. I'm looking for properties needing little prep/rehab before renting to preserve capital. i.e. limiting to properties that need only paint and carpet and other very minor items.
9. My targets are single story SFR or single story duplexes.
10. My research is showing that market for properties meeting my criteria are anywhere from 85,000 to 150,000.
11. The aim is to have at least three properties cash flowing by the end of 2013.
12. I want to make all cash offers to acquire the properties at 80% of market or less.
13. Analysis of all prospects must determine at least $300 per month net cash after PITI, reserves for repairs, reserves for rehabs, utilities, yard maintenance, management. (what have I forgotten?)
14. The multifamily properties must have separate utilities for each unit. i.e. I have to option of tenants paying for all their own utilities.
15. After acquisition I’d pull 90% of market out at the best rate available for 15 year payoff.
16. I’d repeat steps 10 through 13 until I have at least three properties cash flowing. More if the money is there.
17. We’d save six months of net for “oh no”, (that should be about $5400 of accumulated net cash, on top of reserves)
18. Then we’d accumulate all proceeds until we have enough to purchase another using the same guidelines outlined above.
19. We’d save six months of the net for that new property. After that the net proceeds are added to the accumulation for more purchases.
20. We want to pyramid this until we have at least $10,000 per month in net rental income per month. i.e. before income taxes. That amount would allow my wife to quit working and would replace my income from a job that left town.

To the questions:
Where are the problems with the points I’ve outlined above? Blast away!! Don't hold back!!
Am I delusional? Can I really, REALLY do this?
Where do I get bulk discounts on antacids?
When does the shaking stop?
When does the sleep return?
(i.e. I'm not a know it all newbie. I'm a what am I missing, scared to death newbie.)

Thanks to all in advance.

Bill

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Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by Bill B.:

11. The aim is to have at least three properties cash flowing by the end of 2013.
12. I want to make all cash offers to acquire the properties at 80% of market or less.

15. After acquisition I’d pull 90% of market out at the best rate available for 15 year payoff.

These are the two I see in my cursory look.

12. That is a decent level to shoot for, but you say you have 100K with 50K that you actually want to invest. So on your 80-150K homes after the first one you're stuck and even if there is a cashout refi after the second you'd likely be fairly stuck without infusing some additional cash at least for a short term until you can refi again. Also this is contingent on your personal income qualifying you for mortgages because they will not count rental income until you have 2 years landlording experience so make sure that is doable as well.

15. This one goes with 12 and is the much bigger one. Banks generally only allow cashout refi's after 12 months, some are starting to see 6 months, so this will limit you to completing one deal this year and possibly getting your cash at years end.

There is a new cash purchase refi option here: http://themortgagereports.com/6336/delayed-financing-rule-cash-out

It allows you to get cash out of an all cash purchase up to 70% LTV so buying at 75-80%(of normal market) you would leave approximately 15% in there right? But if the home sold for 80K then isn't fair market 80K since the best comp for a property is itself correct? So I'm not sure how they do the valuation but you may end up leaving 30% of your cash in the home not 10-15%

Also a 90% LTV on an investment isn't going to happen(that I know of). All investment loans go 65-80% LTV max. You can do a HELOC for the additional but it will be a higher rate and fees.

All this is to say make sure whoever is doing your loans knows exactly what it is you need to be able to do after purchase and can do that for you, or you could end up with all your money tied up longer than you plan on.

Another option would be make a cash offer with your POF, then after acceptance if you can find a private investor to fund the deal(cash offer doesn't prohibit financing it is just saying you intend to close cash and have no financing contingency). You could purchase, rehab and rent and then do a rate and term refi which is easier to obtain. So if your investor does 70-80% of the purchase price you could turn around and refi a few months later no problem.

But that's the biggest hole I see in your plan is the lending side. You just need to make sure that you take care of that and that you know exactly what is expected of you by the lender, and they can actually do what you need them to do for you.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Bill B.:

    11. The aim is to have at least three properties cash flowing by the end of 2013.
    12. I want to make all cash offers to acquire the properties at 80% of market or less.

    15. After acquisition I’d pull 90% of market out at the best rate available for 15 year payoff.

    These are the two I see in my cursory look.

    12. That is a decent level to shoot for, but you say you have 100K with 50K that you actually want to invest. So on your 80-150K homes after the first one you're stuck and even if there is a cashout refi after the second you'd likely be fairly stuck without infusing some additional cash at least for a short term until you can refi again. Also this is contingent on your personal income qualifying you for mortgages because they will not count rental income until you have 2 years landlording experience so make sure that is doable as well.

    15. This one goes with 12 and is the much bigger one. Banks generally only allow cashout refi's after 12 months, some are starting to see 6 months, so this will limit you to completing one deal this year and possibly getting your cash at years end.

    There is a new cash purchase refi option here: http://themortgagereports.com/6336/delayed-financing-rule-cash-out

    It allows you to get cash out of an all cash purchase up to 70% LTV so buying at 75-80%(of normal market) you would leave approximately 15% in there right? But if the home sold for 80K then isn't fair market 80K since the best comp for a property is itself correct? So I'm not sure how they do the valuation but you may end up leaving 30% of your cash in the home not 10-15%

    Also a 90% LTV on an investment isn't going to happen(that I know of). All investment loans go 65-80% LTV max. You can do a HELOC for the additional but it will be a higher rate and fees.

    All this is to say make sure whoever is doing your loans knows exactly what it is you need to be able to do after purchase and can do that for you, or you could end up with all your money tied up longer than you plan on.

    Another option would be make a cash offer with your POF, then after acceptance if you can find a private investor to fund the deal(cash offer doesn't prohibit financing it is just saying you intend to close cash and have no financing contingency). You could purchase, rehab and rent and then do a rate and term refi which is easier to obtain. So if your investor does 70-80% of the purchase price you could turn around and refi a few months later no problem.

    But that's the biggest hole I see in your plan is the lending side. You just need to make sure that you take care of that and that you know exactly what is expected of you by the lender, and they can actually do what you need them to do for you.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Bill B.:

    1. The following is in outline form so that I don’t worry as much about the prose. We have 50k to invest.
    3. We don’t want to put all our eggs in one basket.
    10. My research is showing that market for properties meeting my criteria are anywhere from 85,000 to 150,000.
    12. I want to make all cash offers to acquire the properties at 80% of market or less.

    The numbers don't work here. You have $50K to invest, don't want to invest it all in one place and you want to make cash offers for houses in the $85-150K range.

    If you only have $50K and don't want to put it all in one place, how can you even come close to buying an $85K house for all cash?

  • Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y

    I agree that the numbers do not work.

    I also recommend much more preparation and research without assumptions. Become the Best Prepared and Informed Person in the Room. Then you will be able to make a decision based upon your research and comfort level, not others.

  • Bill B.Pro Member
    OP
    Camarillo, CA · Member since 2013 · 217 posts · 86 votes
    13y

    Thank you all. Matt Devincenzo

    We have other resources we can tap in the short term to get the deal done. Assuming that we can take the cash back out in a reasonably short period of time.

    I did not know. Understood. That may extend my timeline.

    Point two that I did not know.

    Thanks for the link from TheMortgageReports. That site is now in my favorites.

    I LIKE this!!! A LOT!!! That can restore my timeline!! I understand!! Thank you!! I’ll be vetting that next and BIG TIME.

    J Scott and Tom Goans Thank you for your replys and help. The scenario I thought I could do was to purchase a SFR for 80k CASH that should appraise for 100k (buying "right" at a discount to market) I'd then get a loan for 70k (70% LTV of 100k appraisal) so I only have 10k in the SFR. That means I've put 10k in the deal for a SFR appraised at 100k. (10% down, again, simplified for the example, no closing costs, no rehab) That means I have 90k of my original 100k to repeat the same thing. In the simplified example above, I could tie up five properties for 10k each (total of 50k that I want to invest) and own 500k of property. I limited the goal to three properties to account for closing costs and paint/carpet. (I have other resources to purchase for cash after the first and second deals.) Given the vast experience you both have, I want and need your insights, too. Does that make better sense now, or as the title to my post asks, is it pie in the sky?

  • Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y

    Pie in the sky.

    I NEVER include appreciation in my numbers. Approximately every ten years there is a real estate market correction to bring prices and opinions back to a more realistic viewpoint.

    During the past 25 years, there have been major corrections that were much greater. For example, the Savings and Loan crash of the 1980s and the resulting Resolution Trust Corporation formed by the US government when it took over the assets. The recent crash.

    My experience suggests to me that within 2 years, there will be another major crash in the real estate market.

    Whether you agree or not, if your numbers include appreciation and what you have determined to be the present and future values, you may find yourself in the middle of another market correction and the appreciation portion of the computation is out the window. Now, will your investment survive?

  • Hales Corners, WI · Member since 2013 · 229 posts · 80 votes
    13y

    Hi Bill, interesting strategy. I am in SE WI and looking to get started with similar parameters. Trying to firm up my budget, timeline and buying criteria. Finding the winning properties sounds like the hard part. I am struggling with looking in great communities and not finding the discounts. Are you thinking of working with wholesalers to get your criteria met?? I personally am most interested in acquiring rentals and managing. I am looking at our total investments and how to manage them, and need to firm up our goals.

    I would think wholesalers or foreclosures or getting a great agent may help. But I am learning too. What is your method of finding deals. Are you going to do marketing?

  • Hales Corners, WI · Member since 2013 · 229 posts · 80 votes
    13y

    I agree w/others who say do not count on appreciation, but I agree to look where neighborhoods are solid. :)

  • Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    13y

    Bill B. your 90% LTV (which is actually 70% of the appraised LTV) makes more sense after your last post. That may be do able, question being if you bought it for 80 then that is its comp so will a bank appraise it for more? I don't know the answer, so you need to research the loan options to figure out what the best course of action is.

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    13y

    Reg financing at 70%-90% of LTV will seriously eat into your cash flow. I didn't notice a compensating factor for that.

  • Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes
    13y

    I think you have some work to do yet. How do you believe that you are going to be able to purchase a property that just needs paint and carpet from across the country at 80% of market value? How are you going to generate these leads and verify.

    The other problem mentioned is getting a bank to finance you at even 70% of value. If you tell a bank that you slapped some paint on the walls and replaced the carpet and increased the value 30% on a property you found on the MLS they are gonna ask you to not waste their time. You need to show them in detail how you created value and be able to justify that to an appraiser. I think that will be an uphill battle again.

    Another big question I have would be how do you plan to accomplish all of this from CA. You said that you have family in wisconsin but are they versed in real estate or is it just that you uave them as a connection in the area.you need to develope a team and become familiarized with your target areas trends and rules and laws. I am from Wisconsin myself in the fox cities. I would recommend that you look up "the wisconsin way", it is a guide to wisconsins landlord tenant laws.

  • Bill B.Pro Member
    OP
    Camarillo, CA · Member since 2013 · 217 posts · 86 votes
    13y

    Tom Goans Thanks for your reply. I COMPLETELY agree with your assessment of the national/global economy. Those are the kind of issues that I wrestle with most. I am afraid that we’re headed for another very, very major correction in the economy and that real estate is going to get hit very, very hard.

    All that said, while your estimate of two years is what I’ve heard several times, it can be five years or more until the house of cards falls. Do I buy gold and ammo and just wait? Do I scale back and buy only one or two instead of three or more? If I understand properly, you believe that the 10% down on a discounted price is an inadequate cushion. So, what percent equity should a starter shoot for in these times?

    Karen Mikolainis I’m feeling my way along here, too! I am SO pleased I learned about BP! My budget is set, I’m trying to figure out the strategy so I can pick the best ways to find the properties. Like I posted earlier, I have family in Wisconsin. But, they can’t give me the insight you have by living there. You’re correct, finding the deals is how we are going to make money. I’ve not gotten that far. Dawn A. is a colleague of mine here on BP. If you have not already connected with her you should ask her the same questions. She is already well on her way and she lives in Milwaukee. I plan to connect with her when I’m ready. Maybe all three of us can partner up in a way that we all progress faster. I have NO idea how to do that yet, but, we can all learn together.

    Matt Devincenzo Thanks! Telling me that ANYTHING I think makes ANY kind of sense is very encouraging!!! :-) I’ll be clarifying financing with local bankers before I make any offers. Wait, do I need to work with local bankers? I’ll be checking that out, too!

    Hi Ned Carey I appreciate your input. Besides more down, are there other ways that I can compensate for the tighter cash flow?

    Kyle Hipp Thank's for your reply. When I think I understand the major things I plan to spend a month or two flopping with relatives and doing my due diligence locally. I'll also work to build a local team at that time, too. I'm going to be REALLY burning up BP with questions during that time!! I understand your point about loan valuation. That was also Matt's point above. But, if I can't buy at a meaningful discount to market, everything I've read says it is much harder to make things work. There are a lot of REO properties where I'm looking. I'm hoping to get some of those at a discount. I understand that they may need more than paint and carpet, but that is why I'm going there for a month or two. Hopefully cash offers will help me get a few plums. Even if I pull out less of the equity after the purchase, it is imperative that I buy at a discount. The higher equity is critical with the very, very real possibility of another severe real estate correction coming.

    That said, I believe that Wisconsin is going to improve in general going forward because of Scott Walker’s policies. Indiana withstood the last melt down better than many states due to the work of Mitch Daniels. I think Walker is doing the same for Wisconsin. As a Wisconsin local, I’d especially like your thoughts on those feelings.

    I am MOST appreciative of the reference to “the Wisconsin way”. I’m finding that and getting it immediately after finishing this post.

    Thanks to ALL of you again. This is exactly the kind of information that I need. Feel free to add anything else that may occur to you.

  • Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Bill B.:
    If I understand properly, you believe that the 10% down on a discounted price is an inadequate cushion. So, what percent equity should a starter shoot for in these times?

    Bill, I don't believe I mentioned 10 percent down payment. Many times in my transactions, I require ZERO down. However, I am well covered no matter what happens or happens in the market. I own the property Free and Clear at a price lever that began at less than 25 percent of my current asking price.

    What I am trying to say is 25 percent down may still be very risky for the lender should the property be overvalued or a challenge to sell should the lender find itself as the owner.

    If the thought that the appraisal will support the sale price, consider all the appraisals in the file folders for foreclosed and underwater properties. Appraisals support current hype and do not consider future possibilities or changing trends and economic conditions.

  • Ned CareyPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Bill B.:

    Hi Ned Carey I appreciate your input. Besides more down, are there other ways that I can compensate for the tighter cash flow?

    Find better deals is the best way.

    You can also have higher cash reserves which helps mitigate your risk. Or you can partner on deals. You may be able to structure it so you get more that 1/2, perhaps becuase you are the one bringing the deal to the table, superior knowledge, or managing the property.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    Bill B. and Karen Mikolainis regarding partnering, I wouldn't think that would be a possibility unless we were all on the same page.

    All my single-family homes are purchased for the $20k-$25k range and I'm trying to stick to a single zip code in the city of Milwaukee. That's not the same as investing in the suburbs for $80k per property.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Bill B.:
    ... The scenario I thought I could do was to purchase a SFR for 80k CASH that should appraise for 100k (buying “right” at a discount to market) I'd then get a loan for 70k (70% LTV of 100k appraisal) so I only have 10k in the SFR. That means I’ve put 10k in the deal for a SFR appraised at 100k. (10% down, again, simplified for the example, no closing costs, no rehab) That means I have 90k of my original 100k to repeat the same thing.
    ...

    Wow, you make money from thin air, that's pretty clever (or not so bright). So let's do this with REAL numbers from your example, and identify the IMAGINARY numbers from that example too.

    You buy at 80K CASH. You get a loan for 70K, leaving 10K into the deal. Those numbers are all OK (under your original assumptions, that is). Your imaginary numbers come from you posting that you "have 90K of ...[your] original 100K" - but really you only have 70K in your pocket, out of your original 80K (again under assumptions you originally made).

    Originally posted by Bill B.:
    ...
    In the simplified example above, I could tie up five properties for 10k each (total of 50k that I want to invest) and own 500k of property. I limited the goal to three properties to account for closing costs and paint/carpet. (I have other resources to purchase for cash after the first and second deals.) Given the vast experience you both have, I want and need your insights, too. Does that make better sense now, or as the title to my post asks, is it pie in the sky?

    You won't get 5 total properties that way with only 50K of funds, because first of all you had to get up to 80K in the first place to do even the first one. But more importantly, you will have to keep some funds in what is known as "reserves"; how much could vary, but be assured it won't be zero.

    So, I call this "pie in the sky", just like most others.

  • Hales Corners, WI · Member since 2013 · 229 posts · 80 votes
    13y

    Hey Bill B., I've met Dawn A. and she's great. Like she said, she's got a specific niche. I'm figuring out my path, but hope to focus on one or two suburbs, if I can find good opportunities! I feel I need to learn the ropes a bit before joining efforts with a partner, but I would be happy to stay in touch with both of you as we progress.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    Thanks for the kudos Karen Mikolainis! I enjoyed meeting you too!

    More on why I do what I do:
    1) I don't want to invest in a warzone, but I also don't want to invest where I can't buy properties quickly for cash.
    2) I want to invest close to home, so I buy in the same zip code where I live.
    3) I don't want okay deals or good deals, I want GREAT deals.
    4) I don't invest at all for appreciation. I invest for cash flow.
    5) All of the properties I have purchased so far have been strictly from the MLS, so they are easy to find. I have been targeting short sales and foreclosures.

    If I had $50K more cash to invest, I would either buy 2 SFH renting each at $750-$800 per month, or buy one duplex with some money left over and rent out at $1300/month.

  • Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y
    Originally posted by Dawn A.:
    More on why I do what I do:
    1) I don't want to invest in a warzone, but I also don't want to invest where I can't buy properties quickly for cash.
    2) I want to invest close to home, so I buy in the same zip code where I live.
    3) I don't want okay deals or good deals, I want GREAT deals.
    4) I don't invest at all for appreciation. I invest for cash flow.
    5) All of the properties I have purchased so far have been strictly from the MLS, so they are easy to find. I have been targeting short sales and foreclosures.

    If I had $50K more cash to invest, I would either buy 2 SFH renting each at $750-$800 per month, or buy one duplex with some money left over and rent out at $1300/month.

    An investor with a great defined business plan and the conviction to work within it. I predict great success is your future. Your numbers will be confirmed by the monthly bank statements.

  • Bill B.Pro Member
    OP
    Camarillo, CA · Member since 2013 · 217 posts · 86 votes
    13y

    Tom Goans Thanks for the reply. I understand the numbers can be misleading and the basis of the numbers can be suspect. (my BS is in accounting and I've seen a LOT of accounting that was BS....) The deal must make sense beyond the numbers. That is, the market must support the numbers and the numbers must reflect the market. Then a stellar plan like Dawn’s has a chance of working.

    Ned Carey Thanks, I’m starting to see a trend in all the posts about being conservative.

    Dawn A. Partnering works ONLY when everyone is on the same page. That is why prudent partners start with a comprehensive agreement in writing spelling out the targeted activity, targeted markets, goals, price ranges, and mechanisms for dissolution in the (hopefully unnecessary) event that dissolution becomes necessary. AND, I thank you for spelling out your plan and methods in detail. I hope to be as successful.

    Steve Babiak

    Well, I’ve heard that Ben Bernanke may be stepping down from the Fed. I seem to be qualified to take the spot!!! Or maybe I should just run for Congress?! :-) I appreciate your input and made the post to test my thinking. Obviously I must regroup and reevaluate. That is why I created the post. I’d rather lose money in this forum than in the market.

    Karen Mikolainis

    ” That is why I’m contemplating Wisconsin. My capital would not make a down payment on a down payment in Southern California. I agree that partnering with anyone is somewhere in the future. I also agree that we should all stay in touch as we progress. Sharing ideas and helping each other with questions or other issues (as everyone has helped me with this post) is partnering to a degree. I hope to be of some help to members of BP at some time in the future.
  • Real Estate Investor · Englewood, CO · Member since 2013 · 988 posts · 258 votes
    13y

    Bill, since I was knee high to a grasshopper, my father always repeated; "You can make numbers say anything you want."

  • Real Estate Agent · Milwaukee County, WI · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 525 votes
    13y

    Okay Dawn A.
    You peak some of my interest

    What your ultimate goals ?
    ( total number of eventually free clear properties )

    I understand your purchasing on Northwest side of town
    I understand your loans for 3 to 4 years maximum ( estimate )
    I understand your handling your own repairs / rehabs

    Do you handle the property management side also ?
    ( collecting rent, evicting tenants, etc )

    Can you provide example of two of your deals
    ( current monthly cash flow, property taxes, insurance,
    closing cost, legal fees, utilities, agent fees, and etc )

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    13y

    Hi Jenkins Ramon.

    My ultimate goal is to do real estate full time, and by full time I mean hardly any of my time as I would like more freedom to pursue my own hobbies and passions beyond real estate. (Reading books, writing, etc.)

    Yes you are correct that I purchase on the Northwest side of Milwaukee. This is where I live and also where I invest.

    Yes I handle a good deal of repairs/rehab work myself, although there are always things that I leave to contractors. Some examples are: plumbing, permitted electrical, carpet install or hardwood floor refinishing.

    I also handle the property management side as well. I show the property, I screen, I select tenants. I handle the payments and take tenant phone calls. I have never had an eviction.

    I get asked so many times about my recent deals, I'm considering making a page up on my website for investors to review all the numbers. That makes a lot more sense than re-typing the same information over and over again.

  • Real Estate Agent · Milwaukee County, WI · Member since 2009 · 3k+ posts · 525 votes
    13y

    Dawn A. sounds great
    I will keep watching for more details
    Thanks

  • Investor · Appleton, WI · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 464 votes
    13y

    Bill, Regarding Scott Walker in Wisconsin and my perspective. I think in respect to real estate and politics, a lot of it is local. It seems like you are focusing on the Milwaukee area which I am not familiar with first hand. I know from driving through that there is a different demographic and rougher areas than where I live in the fox cities just south of green bay. My take on Milwaukee is that one would need to know the good pockets very well and really get a good feel on the area. I do know that milwaukee has one of the largest poverty rates for larger cities in the US and that does not bode well for real estate values in a lot of areas. Walkers policies I believe will be beneficial on the whole for the state but I do not believe it will turn around the poverty rate or change the culture in milwaukee. Property taxes now have some ceilings in place and the walker administration has been landlord friendly but this also competes with local ordinances which I believe are a little more tenant friendly in the milwaukee area.
    In the end I think the Wisconsin economy will continue to improve and have a low beta for economic volitility. Stability is valuable and much of wisconsin has that. Things can change overnight though and at the end of the day wisconsin is still a high tax state in many respects but the prices are lower and not as inflated as california as you have alluded too. Good luck Bill

  • Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 37 posts · 6 votes
    13y

    Hey there,

    I agree with everyone here that you need a little more prep work.

    One thing I can't stress enough is that real estate is a great way to build passive cash flow, but it's got a steep learning curve and is really time consuming for the money you get back out.

    A lot of people have this idea, mostly argued by real estate gurus, that real estate is a great place to make some quick money. This just isn't correct.

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