Is it standard to pay a 3.5% up front Due Diligence Fee

Is it standard to pay a 3.5% up front Due Diligence Fee

Contractor · Winder, GA · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 3 votes

I received a loan offer for a new retail center construction loan and they are requiring me to pay a 3.5% due diligence fee. Is that standard

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Wholesaler, Rehabber and Landlord · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y

OMG a bunch of people basically have told you that it is a scam and you are still going to do it????  Sometimes hard headed people have to learn the hard way. You should never want something so bad that when others can see that it is a scam and you can not.

If you have done 4 of these already, how did you do them?? Keep doing them that way if you made money. You had to have made money or else you would not have done 3 more, right??  

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  • Attorney · NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 794 votes
    9y
    Do you mean a deposit to cover the lender's due diligence costs?
  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    HUH??  There's frequently an application fee - - in fixed dollars.  This sounds bogus and I would be looking elsewhere for a loan.

    "Due Diligence" is your activity, not the banks.  A Bank typically calls this an Underwriting Fee, to even the name of the fee IMO is bogus.  WALK away and call a load broker.

    Your stated experience in your profile should have lead you to that conclusion.

  • Contractor · Winder, GA · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    yes it's for the lenders due diligence and they say the only reason they wouldn't do the loan is if I had a bankruptcy and I haven't had one so they said it should be fine I just have never done that

  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jim Bryson:

    yes it's for the lenders due diligence and they say the only reason they wouldn't do the loan is if I had a bankruptcy and I haven't had one so they said it should be fine I just have never done that

     I question the integrity of the lender - - can you share the name of the lender?  Certainly it is not one of the Big National Banks.

  • Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 905 votes
    9y
    Jim Bryson the only upfront fee you should be willing to pay would be a $300-$400 appraisal fee. Everything else should be paid by the title company or attorney at closing. NOT before. This sounds like a scam to me. You will not see these people again if you give them money upfront.
  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    9y

    Who is this "lender". Is it a real bank, or just someone off the internet?  Trust me, a BK is not the only reason a legit lender wouldn't do a construction loan.....they'll look at the market for feasibility of the project, your experience and your financials as a whole, and 3.5% seems awfully high.  If they really told you that, I'd have to say they're a scam.

  • Contractor · Winder, GA · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    Yeah its a construction loan for $1,350,000 for a office upfront fee $47,250

  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jim Bryson:

    Yeah its a construction loan for $1,350,000 for a office upfront fee $47,250

     IMO, you're being scammed and will never close.

  • Contractor · Winder, GA · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    Its a loan broker and loan from a private lender is how it looks to me .

  • Contractor · Winder, GA · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    It looked real Suspicious to me. They are going through a lot sending me contracts.

  • Attorney · NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 794 votes
    9y
    Wait wait... hold on. Don't be scared away yet!! 3.5 is high for sure, but lenders DO conduct extensive due diligence, including environmental, obtaining an appraisal and review, review of survey, title, they usually order flood certs, sometimes hire an abstracting company to review and approve budgets, draw schedules, etc. and leases if you're looking for construction to perm, and so on... requiring a sum up front is far from unusual, especially for a construction loan. Appraisals and review are more like $3,500-4,000, cost to review budgets, scopes of work and draw schedules can be another $1,000-3,000 depending on complexity. Environmental, from $500 if you have your own phase I performed by a company acceptable to the lender, to maybe $3,000+ if they perform their own. Part of that 3.5% may also be an origination or commitment fee. Either way, I wouldn't run or assume fraud just yet! Are they offering good terms? Who is the lender?
  • Attorney · NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 794 votes
    9y
    Mark Creason Thoughts??
  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    And my point is "Due Diligence" is not a normal term we see in loans; the standard terms are

    • origination or commitment fee
    • underwriting fee
    • application fee

    "loan from a private lender" is likely and their FIRST.  I would seek another broker.

  • Contractor · Winder, GA · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    I good with the terms  7 yrs 5.3% 10% backend fee right now the only money I'm putting in is the 3.5.

  • Attorney · NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 794 votes
    9y
    A private lender, not institutional? Did you receive a term sheet or commitment? They should be breaking down in writing what your bigger costs will be. Most of that fee should also be refundable if they can't ultimately offer you the loan. Do you have anything in writing? Is the lender a person or an entity? Have you googled a little to see if they have any reviews? What kind of terms were you offered? If you are working through a broker, they should be bringing you a few different options, not just one, so that you can compare and make a more educated decision.
  • Contractor · Winder, GA · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    It does say due diligence fee computed at the commitment fee rate,

  • Contractor · Winder, GA · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    They sent me a contract with terms does not show the breakdown on the fee. It does say if the lender decides to cancel they will refund in full. I have 72 hours hrs. to cancel.

  • Real Estate Lender and Broker · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 966 posts · 500 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Jessica Zolotorofe:

    Mark Creason Thoughts??

     Sounds high.  I just closed a 4 million dollar loan and due diligence was less than 20k.  I would not pay it, but if you are still considering, I have a bridge in San Francisco and New York for sale.

    Mark

    JK, I dont sell bridges.

  • Contractor · Winder, GA · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    The lender is shown as individual and sent me a letter we both signed that basically states if I have no bankruptcies he is fully prepared to move forward with the funding.   

  • Attorney · NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 794 votes
    9y

    @Mark Creason what about a point commitment fee on top of DD costs? It's still way too high and I would be a little careful for sure and make sure I did my homework, but it doesn't initially (without more details) scream scam to me. Depends who this lender is and whether they are reputable. @Jim Bryson is this a hard money or bridge loan or a real construction loan? When you reference a "contract" it leads me to believe you are dealing with a person, not an institutional lender. Have you shopped any real banks?

  • Attorney · NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 794 votes
    9y

    "basically" states? Have they already conducted DD and they are looking for reimbursement? I think we're missing some important details. What are the loan terms they offered you? If they ask for a big upfront number and the actual terms sound too good to be true, they likely are. I would never want to disparage a hard money lender, but for a new-build retail center, if numbers work, conventional construction to perm financing should be doable. Have you checked in with any banks?

  • Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    9y

    Wait, wait....3.5% upfront and a "10% back end fee".....are you nuts? Shop for a real lender.

  • Contractor · Winder, GA · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    That's all I'm putting in. Works better for me instead of 20% upfront on cost

  • Contractor · Winder, GA · Member since 2016 · 84 posts · 3 votes
    9y

    I have built and sold four of these but due to my credit and net worth the bank is not an option. I did the ones in the pass with banks but not in my name.

  • Attorney · NJ · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 794 votes
    9y
    So the 3.5% is your equity requirement maybe? Do you already own this property or will be purchasing? I think I'd have to see this contract to understand what's going on. I just saw your post about the back end fee and again, way too high, but conceptually, not really that rare, just not usually called that. Often it's an exit fee if you don't convert to perm with the same lender, which can sort of be equated to a prepay penalty, but doesn't sound like that's what's going on here. And a 7 year term for a construction loan??? Does that include a permanent phase? Do the terms change at some point when construction is completed? The whole scenario is confusing to me and I would think you could do much better unless I'm missing something. Again, is there something about this deal that a conventional lender wouldn't touch that makes a hard money lender sensible here? I tried not to be too skeptical and to give this lender the benefit of the doubt initially... but I'm starting to agree that, assuming your understanding of the terms is correct, this is all just a little bit too fishy!
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