Tenant is unhappy with the rent increase

Quote from @Kar Sun:

Quote from @Debbie Woodruff:

Quote from @Kar Sun:

Quote from @Bill B.:

Exactly. Then situation #2 occurs. The tenant finds out you are still being generous with your rates. And either they pay it because they love their standard of living and hate moving. Or realize they can no longer afford their same standard of living. I assume you wouldn’t write your tenant a check every month for $400. That’s basically what you’d doing when charging under market. PLUS, if the “saviors” ever come in and pass rent control you’re screwed because you were nice.

GL.

He was actually pretty mean when texting me stating that my property is not worth it and it is a money grab.

He was also saying that my mortgage did not change and that he was checking with the neighbors.

I really do not like that he is doing all this snooping.

That does not look good.

Also he stated if he accepts it is under a duress.

I really do not want to have a relationship with a tenant who sees the contract as a "duress".

I am not sure why he is doing it, perhaps he has been traveling a lot and is stressed.

Just because your mortgage payment has not increased, does not mean everything else has. Insurance, maintenance, etc, have all increased. Repair cost has exploded and if anything has to be replaced.

The way I see it, you have followed your lease contract with notices, amount of increase, etc. If he fails to acknowledge at the time of increase with the funds or notice to vacate; start eviction process.

To me threatening with "duress" is unacceptable.

Good points. I will just let him now that I will not renew so he does not have to bother to get me the offer form back. I won't do an eviction as there is no need at this point and he had about 70 days to the end of his lease.

Best way to go. Notice of non renewal. Let him truly know what "duress" means.

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

Quote from @Debbie Woodruff:

Haha! Good one!

Nice name BTW....

Debbie Woodruff

Member since 2022 · 4 posts · 2 votes

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Debbie Woodruff:

Haha! Good one!

Nice name BTW....

Yes it is. Who knows, we may be related.

We absolutely know nothing about the Woodruff side.

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

Quote from @Debbie Woodruff:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Debbie Woodruff:

Haha! Good one!

Nice name BTW....

Yes it is. Who knows, we may be related.

We absolutely know nothing about the Woodruff side.

It goes way back to Gov Bradshaw of the Virginia colony....

Debbie Woodruff

Member since 2022 · 4 posts · 2 votes

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Debbie Woodruff:

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Debbie Woodruff:

Haha! Good one!

Nice name BTW....

Yes it is. Who knows, we may be related.

We absolutely know nothing about the Woodruff side.

It goes way back to Gov Bradshaw of the Virginia colony....

Interesting. Will definitely have to look into it. His dad left when he was a baby. Have some names of the dad's siblings.

Jason Smith

Member since 2021 · 109 posts · 130 votes

There are too many replies to this post and the OP is getting too emotional about the tenant not being grateful for providing him a nice property under market rent.

My property insurance went up 10% but the counties cost didn't go up that much. My lawnmower wants another $10/cut but I know he isn't passing all that on to his workers or the extra 50 cents in gas in gas he spends on my tiny lots. I have 2 options, just like your tenant, find someone cheaper or suck it up. Doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

OP

Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes

Quote from @Jason Smith:

There are too many replies to this post and the OP is getting too emotional about the tenant not being grateful for providing him a nice property under market rent.

My property insurance went up 10% but the counties cost didn't go up that much. My lawnmower wants another $10/cut but I know he isn't passing all that on to his workers or the extra 50 cents in gas in gas he spends on my tiny lots. I have 2 options, just like your tenant, find someone cheaper or suck it up. Doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

Ok, you can have your opinion. If you will tell your lawn man that he is coercing you into cutting you lawn and that he makes you sign a contract under "duress" I do not think he will come back to you. You are basically accusing him of wrongdoing and some legal misconduct. This is what my tenant has done. I am not emotional. I am just stating the obvious. Having a tenant in your property that despises you and thinks you are stealing extra $400 monthly spells trouble. This person will most likely keep placing all sorts of calls and issues. The problem is that he is highly volatile and emotional about this price hike when he can afford it. That is not how mature people behave. And, yes, I do expect my tenant to be grateful because he gets a nice place to live while paying 700-800 below the market rate.

Jason Smith

Member since 2021 · 109 posts · 130 votes

@Kar Sun if he is currently getting charged $750 less than comparables and is mad about about a $400 increase ($350 less than comparables) then just find another tenant and enjoy your extra $4200/year.

OP

Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes

Quote from @Jason Smith:

@Kar Sun if he is currently getting charged $750 less than comparables and is mad about about a $400 increase ($350 less than comparables) then just find another tenant and enjoy your extra $4200/year.

Yep, that is exactly what I am going to do. I knew the solution even before I posted here. I just wanted to get the feedback from others who have more experience than I do. I also wanted to make sure that my decision was not made in a haste and I was as objective as humanly possible when non-renewing. So gathering this feedback was helpful.

Henry T.

Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

I'm sorry if I missed it, but did you say which state you are? I'm envious of the control you have of your property.
There are some states already where you would NOT be allowed to discontinue the lease. 6 Month notice is required. Or, there is a 3, 7, or 10 percent rent increase limits. Not renewing his lease becasue you don't like him would be illegal. Or, you have to pay him 3 months rent if he declines your increase (Seattle for example). In some states its getting very difficult to be a landlord. As the progressive agendas creep in. In Oregon or Washington you have to raise 10 or 20 percent just to cover for these insane laws that increase the risk of renting a property. You gotta be crazy to continue in these states. Anyway,
I've enjoyed this thread and the perspectives. Good luck.

Joe VilleneuvePro Member

Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes

Quote from @Jason Smith:

There are too many replies to this post and the OP is getting too emotional about the tenant not being grateful for providing him a nice property under market rent.

My property insurance went up 10% but the counties cost didn't go up that much. My lawnmower wants another $10/cut but I know he isn't passing all that on to his workers or the extra 50 cents in gas in gas he spends on my tiny lots. I have 2 options, just like your tenant, find someone cheaper or suck it up. Doesn't mean I have to be happy about it.

OP isn't emotional. He's just stating facts that include the tenant getting emotional, and how that emotion can/will lead to problems down the road for the landlord.
Actually, I would say you're basing your decision to not increase rent, even though logic and math should tell you otherwise, is more emotional than the OP here. The only reason why you would not raise the rent, based on the increased costs you are seeing, is because you are putting yourself in the place of your tenant...and "emotionally" having a hard time increasing the rent.
Also, your criticism of your lawnmower and insurance going up, but saying it shouldn't because the sources costs didn't go up that much, is also an emotional response. Fact is, both of those vendors can increase their cost to you for any reason they want. You can, as you stated, find someone else to supply you with their services...at your choice. When you say your are "sucking it up", you are playing the self inflicted victim. You're NOT the victim. You have a choice, but what you chose was an emotional response.

Jonathan R McLaughlin

Rental Property Investor · Boston, Massachusetts (MA) · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

@Kar Sun let the guy have his reaction and move on. You got what you wanted and are unhappy about how you got it. Seems to me there is no problem. Guy gets big increase, complains, then says basically "fine...I'm not happy but I'll sign": end of story.

But it seems you want to be seen as the good guy and are upset he doesn't see it that way. Thats a different problem.

Bud Gaffney

Rental Property Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

I'm happy with my tax increase, escrow increase, gas increase, cost of living increase, everything increase. No one cares work harder. You have bills to pay. If tenant is unhappy they can move out.

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

Quote from @Jonathan R McLaughlin:

Guy gets big increase, complains, then says basically "fine...I'm not happy but I'll sign": end of story.

The tenant didn't actually say only that - when he threw in the 'under duress' crap, that made it a different matter (IMO)

Wayne Woodson

Investor · Nashville, TN · Member since 2009 · 483 posts · 228 votes

Quote from @John Underwood:

I would not do a $400 increase to a good tenant. I'd do maybe $75 to $100 at most in one year.

I wish more landlords had this mentality.

Joe VilleneuvePro Member

Plymouth, MI · Member since 2013 · 13k+ posts · 19k+ votes

Quote from @Wayne Woodson:

Quote from @John Underwood:

I would not do a $400 increase to a good tenant. I'd do maybe $75 to $100 at most in one year.

I wish more landlords had this mentality.

Did you read the entire discussion?

OP

Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Jonathan R McLaughlin:

Guy gets big increase, complains, then says basically "fine...I'm not happy but I'll sign": end of story.

The tenant didn't actually say only that - when he threw in the 'under duress' crap, that made it a different matter (IMO)

Precisely. Being unhappy would be natural and expected behavior from a 55 yo man. Telling me that He is disgusted and that if he signs it will be under duress it is a totally another thing. Duress is a legal term and even if I wanted I would not be able to let him stay because he accused me of coercing him. If I let him stay I make a strategic mistake that can cost me more than any vacancy.

OP

Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes

Quote from @Wayne Woodson:

Quote from @John Underwood:

I would not do a $400 increase to a good tenant. I'd do maybe $75 to $100 at most in one year.

I wish more landlords had this mentality.

You should start reading first, then commenting. If the landlords would do the opposite of what I will do they will be putting themselves in a legal risk, loss of income, financial trouble, forced property sale. In USA you have a choice. If something does not work you can move to the place you like more.

Bruce WoodruffPro Member

Contractor/Investor/Consultant · San Diego / Phoenix · Member since 2021 · 12k+ posts · 15k+ votes

Quote from @Wayne Woodson:

We, as Landlords, need to keep out rents at or above market rates in order to stay in business and provide quality housing for the renters out there. Almost 75% of the rental housing in this country is provided by smaller Landlords like most of us on this forum. Imagine the disastrous results if we were not able to make a profit on our investments and were forced to move our investment dollars elsewhere......?

OP

Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes

Quote from @Bruce Woodruff:

Quote from @Wayne Woodson:

We, as Landlords, need to keep out rents at or above market rates in order to stay in business and provide quality housing for the renters out there. Almost 75% of the rental housing in this country is provided by smaller Landlords like most of us on this forum. Imagine the disastrous results if we were not able to make a profit on our investments and were forced to move our investment dollars elsewhere......?

Agreed. People hate on small landlords but they ignore large corporate tyrants. If there was no small landlords corporate sharks would hike the rates much higher.

Justin Fox

Software Developer · Vidor, TX · Member since 2015 · 922 posts · 639 votes

@Kar Sun

This is kind of like trying to haggle with a sub contractor who is way out of line with their labor prices. I'm just going to move on. I don't want to win the negotiation and then have someone working on my property that thinks they're being underpaid or being taken advantage of, even though they agreed to a lower price. It results in rushed, sub-par work every time. In this scenario, the sub contractor eventually finds someone to pay his price and I find someone to initially agree to charge less labor by their own volition, or we don't and have to concede down the road. Everyone wins.

I would simply not renew this lease and re-list the property at the new rental price.

I've never understood the idea of a tenant respecting me or being grateful for a place I rent. I don't respect mortgage lenders, insurance brokers, the lawn guy or gas station owners. I'm not grateful for their products or services either. Gratitude is the result of actions or gestures of kindness, and profiting off of the scarcity of your abundance isn't kindness. If appreciation and gratitude are what you desire, don't raise the rent.

3 Reply

OP

Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes

Quote from @Justin Fox:

@Kar Sun

This is kind of like trying to haggle with a sub contractor who is way out of line with their labor prices. I'm just going to move on. I don't want to win the negotiation and then have someone working on my property that thinks they're being underpaid or being taken advantage of, even though they agreed to a lower price. It results in rushed, sub-par work every time. In this scenario, the sub contractor eventually finds someone to pay his price and I find someone to initially agree to charge less labor by their own volition, or we don't and have to concede down the road. Everyone wins.

I would simply not renew this lease and re-list the property at the new rental price.

I've never understood the idea of a tenant respecting me or being grateful for a place I rent. I don't respect mortgage lenders, insurance brokers, the lawn guy or gas station owners. I'm not grateful for their products or services either. Gratitude is the result of actions or gestures of kindness, and profiting off of the scarcity of your abundance isn't kindness. If appreciation and gratitude are what you desire, don't raise the rent.

Well, I do want to respect people I work with or have any kind of relationship with. I am a small time landlord so I like to have the tenants that enjoy personal touch. That is a tenant I am looking for. I am sure there people who do not care for their tenants. I cannot do that. But it is a two way street. There is got to be a balance that everyone will accept. If not, we can go our separate ways. That is all. Being a landlord it is important to have a gift of working with people. It is easier if you have just few properties. I also do not mind when people want to get profit. After all we all need to live and feed our families. So a delivery is very important. I work with the mortgage broker and he is profiting off me but I do respect that guy. He is a good person and I like to give my business to him. I am grateful to have someone who can apply his knowledge to work on my loan while I have to do something else that earns me the money.

James Hamling

Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes

Quote from @Wayne Woodson:

Quote from @John Underwood:

I would not do a $400 increase to a good tenant. I'd do maybe $75 to $100 at most in one year.

I wish more landlords had this mentality.

Why????

So when they start going under you can present an offer for 60cents on the dollar and scoop a deal?

Or maybe so can impact other market rate rentals by sub-market pricing to try and press others rents down?

Or maybe really into that "vintage" look and would like to see another "vintage" home in area complete with peeling paint, over-grown trees, that "pop" of ambiance as the shingles begin to curl at edges, because having $0 for maintenance/cap-x, no choice but to let the property go "vintage".

I'd like to know, when go to get a burger today, do you look at them and say "that's ridiculous, here, I am only going to pay you ___"? Press a landlord that should give away housing for less then fair market $ but $10.00 burger, no questions asked..... Ever notice how well dressed people are at these rallies for "cancel rent"? Especially the sun-glasses, that cracks me up every time, when wearing $300 pair of sunglasses holding a sign to cancel rents, Gucci bag in other arm....... Sporting $175 shoes to match THAT outfit.....

I put as much thought into a tenants affordability of fair market rents as tenants put thought into my affordability of the rents they want to pay, 0!

When I get a tenant who says "oh, I can't afford that" to a rent increase, my response is automatic "good to know, let's get you into a place you CAN afford" and that's it. If hear "but I want this place" yeah, i get it, it's just like how I want that Lambo but only ready to pay for a Gremlin. And yeah, I say that, because a stupid comment deserves an equally stupid reply. And most times, they laugh and say "yeah, lol". Do you really think tenants are so dumb that they don't know there trying to get one over on a landlord? It's called negotiation, I appreciate there effort, I do, and again I tell them that, hey, worth a shot right. I get a tenant trying to get best deal, but someone calling themself an "investor" saying do sub-market pricing just cause..... ugh..... no respect, sorry bud.

3 Reply

Noah P BondsPro Member

Boise, ID · Member since 2019 · 59 posts · 36 votes

I think this speaks to a greater need to educate renters on the reality of how their rent is set. They don't see our side. I would consider adding something to your future leases that explains how your rents are set. Some of us like to go easy on the tenants and some see it more as a black and white business. There's a balance somewhere in there and I think it depends on your goals. If you're in a growth stage - it's black & white. If you're already financially free and not trying to grow so much you have the flexibility to give them a deal.

OP

Member since 2021 · 402 posts · 277 votes

Quote from @Noah P Bonds:

I think this speaks to a greater need to educate renters on the reality of how their rent is set. They don't see our side. I would consider adding something to your future leases that explains how your rents are set. Some of us like to go easy on the tenants and some see it more as a black and white business. There's a balance somewhere in there and I think it depends on your goals. If you're in a growth stage - it's black & white. If you're already financially free and not trying to grow so much you have the flexibility to give them a deal.

Excellent point. I will add this to my contract and I will now go over my contract. I used to do it but with the current situation and long term tenants I have neglected to go over the contract with them. Thanks.