Duplex came with Drug Dealers

General Landlording & Rental Properties

Duplex came with Drug Dealers

Investor · Janesville, WI · Member since 2013 · 180 posts · 155 votes

I just purchased my first Upper/Lower Duplex and have 3 tenants in the upper unit. I have been renovating the lower the last few weeks and am almost ready to rent the 3 Bedroom place out. The upper tenants are nice/friendly kids who have been living there for 2 years and have always paid their rent on time and great to deal with. However, as I have been working there the last several weeks, the common area's constantly smell like pot and during an entire day 20-30 people will come and leave the property at various times. Some sneak around the back entrance and tip toe up the stair-well. I have also seen some people leave with glass jars of which I couldn't see the contents, though they do have about 4-5 cases of empty glass jars in their storage area.

I'm looking for advice on how to deal with this scenario? If I evict them before I have a tenant on the lower level I'm stuck paying all the bills through out the winter. What grounds do I have to send an eviction notice other than the smell? I was thinking of sending them a warning/complaint message about the amount of traffic going in and out of the property? Any advice would be appreciated!

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Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes

12y

Another possible option is to move someone who sells illegal weaponry in the downstairs unit so that the surrounding community has a one stop shop for guns and drugs.

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John Rooster
Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 409 posts · 105 votes
12y
Originally posted by Chris Heeren:
Since the tenants came with the purchase of the house, they don't necessarily have anything in their lease at the moment.

Huh? Not sure what this means. The sale does not void their lease. Did you not get a copy of the lease?

A serious suggestion, though not necessarily a good suggestion, is to ask them if they have any friends with a job that want to rent the lower unit, presumably the friends would be ok with traffic and pot smell. Then jack up the rent of the upstairs tenant when it comes time to renew lease. And hopefully the new downstairs tenant would out last the old tenant. 26 days till retail pot sales in CO.
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Brian Mathews
Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
12y
Originally posted by John Rooster:

Originally posted by Chris Heeren:
Since the tenants came with the purchase of the house, they don't necessarily have anything in their lease at the moment.

Huh? Not sure what this means. The sale does not void their lease. Did you not get a copy of the lease?

A serious suggestion, though not necessarily a good suggestion, is to ask them if they have any friends with a job that want to rent the lower unit, presumably the friends would be ok with traffic and pot smell. Then jack up the rent of the upstairs tenant when it comes time to renew lease. And hopefully the new downstairs tenant would out last the old tenant. 26 days till retail pot sales in CO.

.........Or call the cops and tell the cops you suspect they are dealing drugs in your property. Renting to other potheads??? Bumping up rent and hoping they will leave??? What is the with the the wimpiness in this thread? This is his property, his responsibility, his liability. What happens if somebody gets hurt on this property? Or one of these stoners falls down the stairs and sues the owner. Do you think they will care that he was trying to be nice to their dealer? Hell no, they will attempt to sue him. What if one of them leaves the property and hits somebody in their car while leaving? He's already admitted in an open internet forum that he suspects drug dealing. I'm sorry, maybe its because I'm from Texas and we do things differently than most of the rest of the US. But I wouldn't put up with this crap for one second. I probably never would have posted this sort of thing in an open internet forum to start with. I would have called the cops the second I suspected it. I have some kids down the street I suspected of selling pot, I called the cops the day I thought they might be. I didn't placate them and hope they would stop, I'm not afraid they will do something to me. I did the right thing. I guess I'm different that way.
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Dawn AnastasiPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Originally posted by Brian Mathews:
.........Or call the cops and tell the cops you suspect they are dealing drugs in your property. Renting to other potheads??? Bumping up rent and hoping they will leave??? What is the with the the wimpiness in this thread? This is his property, his responsibility, his liability.

I agree 100%. Allowing tenants in that do drugs and also distribute drugs is a BAD THING. It's illegal and brings down both the building and the neighborhood.
Podcast Guest on Show #29
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Stephen S.
Wholesaler · Holiday, FL · Member since 2013 · 571 posts · 221 votes
12y
I do agree with your basic sentiment but not with your method. Maybe in Philadelphia we are different too? <g>

No matter what I suspect I would not just report them to the police. Come on now - if the shoe were on the other foot - say I lived across the street from you - and saw what I misguidedly interpreted as "suspicious" activity. Should I just send the police knocking? Maybe; but if it were reversed I'd much rather you came over and said: Look stephen; I want to talk to you about something that has been bothering me. If there's a problem here - let's you and me figure it out.

Of course if I got a bunch of friction over it from you - I might then go in to have the same talk with the police - but I personally am going need more than a suspicion to go with.

The fact is: nobody knows anything at this point. Let's not go off half-cocked. I say give any man the benefit of him telling his own story first.

stephen
------------

Originally posted by Brian Mathews:

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Brian Mathews
Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
12y
@Stephen S.

Hopefully the cops in florida have the sense enough not to take what you say as word and go bust the doors down. They do deal with this on occasion. Most cops will take the report and begin watching the property to see if there is any justification and to make sure you aren't a person with an axe to grind against this person. Let's say that you approach the person and they tell you to take a flying leap. You call the cops and they bust them. Now they know you are the "rat" and they or another of their associates retaliate against you, your property or your family. You don't know who these guys are tied in with. There are some pretty bad jokers around here that are tied to the drug industry. We have cartels feeding drugs into this area through various gangs, who have no problem hurting you or your family to prove a point or just because.
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Troy Sheets
Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
12y
Originally posted by Brian Mathews:

Originally posted by John Rooster:

Originally posted by Chris Heeren:
Since the tenants came with the purchase of the house, they don't necessarily have anything in their lease at the moment.

Huh? Not sure what this means. The sale does not void their lease. Did you not get a copy of the lease?

A serious suggestion, though not necessarily a good suggestion, is to ask them if they have any friends with a job that want to rent the lower unit, presumably the friends would be ok with traffic and pot smell. Then jack up the rent of the upstairs tenant when it comes time to renew lease. And hopefully the new downstairs tenant would out last the old tenant. 26 days till retail pot sales in CO.

I have some kids down the street I suspected of selling pot, I called the cops the day I thought they might be. I didn't placate them and hope they would stop, I'm not afraid they will do something to me. I did the right thing. I guess I'm different that way.

Pretty sure the OP never said he was afraid. Also, you called the cops, good job, you get a gold star. What was the outcome? I can tell you. If they even bothered to ride by, that's all they did. It'd be a perfect world if we could just call the cops and they'd arrest our tenant/neighbor/local thug for pot dealing, but it doesn't work that way. Go try and evict your tenant without hard proof or, better yet, show up in their house with weapons and make them leave, you'll be the one in jail!

You guys are hilarious and, maybe things really work that way in Texas, but I doubt it!
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Brian Mathews
Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
12y
@Stephen S.

Hopefully the cops in Florida have the sense enough not to take what you say as word and go bust the doors down. They do deal with this on occasion. Most cops will take the report and begin watching the property to see if there is any justification and to make sure you aren't a person with an axe to grind against this person. Let's say that you approach the person and they tell you to take a flying leap. You call the cops and they bust them. Now they know you are the "rat" and they or another of their associates retaliate against you, your property or your family. You don't know who these guys are tied in with. There are some pretty bad jokers around here that are tied to the drug industry. We have cartels feeding drugs into this area through various gangs, who have no problem hurting you or your family to prove a point or just because.

@ troy

I'm not going with guns a blazing. I would never confront a person with a gun unless they have entered my house without my permission. That would be irresponsible and illegal in any state. Anybody does that should no own a gun. I called the cops on the kids and within about a week, all the crap stopped. To this day, about 3 months later. Still nothing, with an increased and noticeable police presence by that house. I guess things are different in Philadelphia, our cops respond to our issues in a timely manner. The OP mentioned in his post, he didn't want to evict the people, because he didn't want to be short the income.
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John Thedford
Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
12y
One look @Stephen S. is enough to convince me to carry an Ares Companion, MP5K in operational briefcase, and .38 caliber cane gun:)
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Troy Sheets
Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
12y
Originally posted by Brian Mathews:

Hopefully the cops in Florida have the sense enough not to take what you say as word and go bust the doors down. They do deal with this on occasion. Most cops will take the report and begin watching the property to see if there is any justification and to make sure you aren't a person with an axe to grind against this person. Let's say that you approach the person and they tell you to take a flying leap. You call the cops and they bust them. Now they know you are the "rat" and they or another of their associates retaliate against you, your property or your family. You don't know who these guys are tied in with. There are some pretty bad jokers around here that are tied to the drug industry. We have cartels feeding drugs into this area through various gangs, who have no problem hurting you or your family to prove a point or just because.
@ troy

I'm not going with guns a blazing. I would never confront a person with a gun unless they have entered my house without my permission. That would be irresponsible and illegal in any state. Anybody does that should no own a gun. I called the cops on the kids and within about a week, all the crap stopped. To this day, about 3 months later. Still nothing, with an increased and noticeable police presence by that house. I guess things are different in Philadelphia, our cops respond to our issues in a timely manner. The OP mentioned in his post, he didn't want to evict the people, because he didn't want to be short the income.

"I didn't placate them and hope they would stop, I'm not afraid they will do something to me."

I took the above as meaning you thought the OP was afraid of the tenants, he only stated he was afraid of lost income, lol. Sorry I midunderstood.

@Stephen S. said he'd go in with a sledge hammer handle and another weapon, which is a really, really bad idea if you want to stay a free man. Don't forget, in the courts and the court of public opinion, we're the bad guys.

Unfortunately, you're correct, you wouldn't have much luck complaining about small-time pot dealing in Philadelphia, they may look into it with enough complaints but I think you'd get tired of complaining before the cops would take serious action. Maybe I'm wrong, but just from what I've seen, they're not very responsive unless there's violent crime happening. I watched a guy pull into a vacant lot down the street from my house, back in and unload a whole truck full of trash into the corner of the lot. As soon as he backed in I knew what he was going to do so I called the police, they never showed. I called back and was told they were busy and would take a report later. Never happened. Maybe I'm jaded from living in a big city?
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Troy Sheets
Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
12y
Originally posted by John Thedford:
One look @Stephen S. is enough to convince me to carry an Ares Companion, MP5K in operational briefcase, and .38 caliber cane gun:)

Agreed!!! He looks like a scarier version of John Goodman!
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Chris Heeren
OP
Investor · Janesville, WI · Member since 2013 · 180 posts · 155 votes
12y
Wow - quite the response and a lot of good advice! I believe the action I may take will be to wait until I have finished renovating the down stairs unit and then confront them that the foot traffic needs to cease as well as any recreational drug use. That will be considered their warning and if I receive any complaints from the lower tenants (once rented) that I would start the eviction process. Ideally they should get the idea and take it else where or I will ultimately evict them for using illegal drugs on the property. I check through the lease which was short and straight forward. I have grounds to evict them on illegal drug use but nothing about an in home business of which I will be adding to all my rental lease agreements.
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Stephen S.
Wholesaler · Holiday, FL · Member since 2013 · 571 posts · 221 votes
12y
Well; maybe I mis-stated my thought. Which by the way; was primarily aimed at maybe finding a dog in the place. I did say that I'd go in to 'check an emergency' while the residents were gone - not to confront them in any way, let alone with an initial weapon.

Originally posted by Troy Sheets:

Unfortunately, you're correct, you wouldn't have much luck complaining about small-time pot dealing in Philadelphia, they may look into it with enough complaints but I think you'd get tired of complaining before the cops would take serious action. Maybe I'm wrong, but just from what I've seen, they're not very responsive unless there's violent crime happening. I watched a guy pull into a vacant lot down the street from my house, back in and unload a whole truck full of trash into the corner of the lot. As soon as he backed in I knew what he was going to do so I called the police, they never showed. I called back and was told they were busy and would take a report later. Never happened. Maybe I'm jaded from living in a big city?

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Stephen S.
Wholesaler · Holiday, FL · Member since 2013 · 571 posts · 221 votes
12y
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Karen MargraveBusiness Member
Moderator
Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
@Chris Heeren In California in high drug traffic complexes landlords can choose to join in cooperation with the police which allows them access to check for drugs, and signs are posted on the property, etc. I'm not sure of the exact details, but see if your area does that.

You don't need people selling drugs in your units, especially if you want to put kids in the lower unit. In addition, if you know there's that much traffic going in and out, you need to disclose that, as it definitely would be a factor to potential renters.

Hiding your head in the sand isn't an answer. It's a problem, and it needs to be dealt with.
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Bill S.Pro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
12y
@Chris Heeren I seriously doubt that you will be able to evict them for lots of visitors and the smell of pot in the common area (unless perhaps you're in Round Rock, Texas). Sure you can evict for illegal drug use but you must prove it in a court of law. Unless they are convicted of said illegal drug use you may have a hard time doing that. Remember innocent until proven guilty.

When is their lease up?
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Peter Nguyen
San Jose, CA · Member since 2013 · 4 posts · 1 vote
12y
Follow the advise of those that recommend removing these tenants. The longer the operation is, the more cleaning you'd have to do to remove the smell of marijuana. Not only that, you run the risk of a burglary which will cause even more damage, which is obviously not a good look.
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Patrick Connell
REALTOR® · Bastrop, TX · Member since 2013 · 324 posts · 191 votes
12y
Originally posted by Brian Mathews:

I'm not going with guns a blazing. I would never confront a person with a gun unless they have entered my house without my permission. That would be irresponsible and illegal in any state. Anybody does that should no own a gun.

@Brian Mathews Texas law provides for various other times when deadly force or the threat of deadly force would be authorized, so the statement that it is irresponsible or illegal is incorrect. Didn't mean to soap box but I am a Texan and just wanted to clarify.

In regards to the original post, many people are overestimating the ability of law enforcement to put a stop to this situation. Regardless of the State you're in, this type of activity will be dealt with, by law enforcement, as their call load, case load, and resources allow. If this is considered a lower-level operation then it may not garner much attention from Narc units or organized crime, so simply handled by patrol. On the other hand, a call could result in a "knock-and-talk" which results in them opening the door and something is found in plain view; if they're smart they'll just ignore the cops till they go away.

Additionally, drugs = guns, gangs, and other crimes, which is why SWAT may or may not be utilized to serve a warrant on this type of activity. Someone had already mentioned a no knock warrant service, that would be the one that destroys your property.

I would suggest to the OP, or anyone else, take responsibility for your building, move them out ASAP, and, if you have to, be creative.

Sorry for the soap box, a few of these things rubbed me the wrong way. I think I need a hug and some hot cocoa LOL.
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Michael Heisterkamp
Arlington, TX · Member since 2013 · 62 posts · 11 votes
12y
if you really want them gone ask the police to do frequent passes of the house. Say that you have seen a lot of suspicious activity going on around the street. Don't tell them it's in your property if they get wind that this is a large cash flowing drug house they will seize your property and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it, it will cost you tens of thousands of dollars in legal bills to get everything straightened out. If the cops start to drive by 15 times a day this will scare the customers away and the tenant will either stop or move. If they ask to move keep their deposit and let them go with out any complaints.
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Brian Mathews
Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
12y
@Patrick Connell

I live about 10 minutes north of you and own several firearms. I know what is legal and illegal. I can unequivocally say that going to a person's house with a gun to confront them for whatever reason is against the law. As well as being illegal, if you did that, you have no business owning a gun. In the concealed firearm class, you are taught that the last resort for any situation is a gun. If you can diffuse a situation without a gun, you are much better off. I believe 2 years ago they modified the castle doctrine or no retreat law, so that if a person entered your home, you could shoot them. Whereas before, you had to have no form of retreat.
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Matthew Paul
Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
12y
Rent the other unit to a cop at a discounted rate .
2 Reply
Patrick Connell
REALTOR® · Bastrop, TX · Member since 2013 · 324 posts · 191 votes
12y
Originally posted by Brian Mathews:
@Patrick Connell

I live about 10 minutes north of you and own several firearms. I know what is legal and illegal. I can unequivocally say that going to a person's house with a gun to confront them for whatever reason is against the law. As well as being illegal, if you did that, you have no business owning a gun. In the concealed firearm class, you are taught that the last resort for any situation is a gun. If you can diffuse a situation without a gun, you are much better off. I believe 2 years ago they modified the castle doctrine or no retreat law, so that if a person entered your home, you could shoot them. Whereas before, you had to have no form of retreat.

I agree with this, I think I misunderstood your original post. PM on the way for clarification.
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Account Closed
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
12y
I'm guessing the glass jars are mushroom tea.

If it was pot smoking, no foot traffic and an SFH, I'd be live-and-let-live about it. I'm not pot smoker, but I'm not anti marijuana.

IMO you've got a Golden Rule conflict in front of you. How would you feel about a landlord that rented that unit to you and your children? All the while knowing there is pot smoking, knowing there is excessive foot traffic upstairs? I'm guessing you might be angry and unsympathetic towards the landlord, even if he was "working" on getting the upstairs tenants out eventually.

If it were me, I'd think long and hard before renting that unit while the upstairs tenants are there. IMO that's asking your new tenants to share your landlording burden without their permission.
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Cathy Svercl
Rental Property Investor · Clearwater, FL · Member since 2013 · 124 posts · 55 votes
12y
good luck! been there, done that. prior to my purchasing the property, my tenants were under investigation for 2 years for drug dealing by local undercover agents. the cops wanted to find the "up-line" so didn't arrest my tenants. all the neighbors knew, and they clued me in, after realizing i was not going to put up with it. unfortunately, i could not rent the other units while they were there. i also didn't want to rock the boat, since where there are drugs, there are guns. luckily, one cop took pity on me, and called in the Dept of Child Services. they moved out within 2 weeks of the official visit!! and left a mess you cannot imagine. so make friends with the neighbors, and make yourself known to all the cops patrolling your neighborhood.
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Jason Eyerly
Real Estate Agent · Charleston, SC · Member since 2013 · 424 posts · 99 votes
12y
Originally posted by @Jassem A.:
Another possible option is to move someone who sells illegal weaponry in the downstairs unit so that the surrounding community has a one stop shop for guns and drugs.

I was gonna say to go with an Arms dealer as well, and then since you know they can afford it, hike the rates up on those lease renewals. You get paid, and in the meantime no thugs are out to get you or destroy your property. If they're not living in your house, they're in someone elses. Might as well be paying you! Lol!
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Robert Nichols
Investor · Boston, MA · Member since 2011 · 5 posts · 5 votes
12y
My recommendation is to get them out as soon as possible. Any good tenant you move in will not put up with that amount of constant foot traffic and will not want to live in that environement for long. In my experience, it is better to get a bad tenant out sooner than later. If you wait you may end up with two vacant units instead of one. The ideal scenario is having them leave as the new tenant moves in so that at least you only have one unit occupied , but you should start the eviction process now if you are close to finishing your renovations and ready for a tenant in the lower units. Hope this helps. Good luck!
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