Duplex came with Drug Dealers

Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes

12y

I would probably call in an anonymous tip if I was that worried but if rent is being paid I probably wouldn't care too much

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Chris Heeren

OP

Investor · Janesville, WI · Member since 2013 · 180 posts · 155 votes

12y

My biggest concern is the bottom unit is a newly renovated 3 bedroom unit which will most likely be rented out to a family. My guess is this upstairs activity may be frowned upon by the lower tenants of who will be paying a higher rent. I'm really surprised these people wouldn't rent own an entire house themselves rather than an upper unit of a duplex?

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Troy Sheets

Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes

12y

Not sure you need to do anything. If it's not bothering anyone and your property is in good shape and well kept, where's your complaint? You "supspect" they're dealing drugs, don't think that'll get you an eviction in front of a judge. Just don't renew their lease when it's up if you like. If you rent out the lower unit and get complaints then you send a warning letter and if that doesn't work you can evict if need be. Just my two cents and worth what you paid!

Perhaps ask the upstairs tenants to find your new tenant for the downstairs? They'll probably share the same interests at least...

1 Reply

Matt Devincenzo

Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes

12y

Maybe approach it from a side angle. Instead of mentioning the (potential) drugs at all since you really have no evidence, send them a letter that outlines that a home business is not approved. You can say you've noticed an unusually high amount of foot traffic at the property and that any home business is a violation of local zoning and the lease agreement.

If they are selling it prob will only cause them to stop temporarily, but it might get you past the winter and at least give you time to get another tenant in the bottom. Also if you see the activity again you can use that as grounds for eviction since you've already warned them of the lease violation.

10 Reply

Troy Sheets

Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes

12y

Originally posted by Matt Devincenzo:

Maybe approach it from a side angle. Instead of mentioning the (potential) drugs at all since you really have no evidence, send them a letter that outlines that a home business is not approved. You can say you've noticed an unusually high amount of foot traffic at the property and that any home business is a violation of local zoning and the lease agreement.

If they are selling it prob will only cause them to stop temporarily, but it might get you past the winter and at least give you time to get another tenant in the bottom. Also if you see the activity again you can use that as grounds for eviction since you've already warned them of the lease violation.

I like this idea! You could also add that you'll be having a family with children move in and you can't have them disturbed in any fashion by their "home business". Great idea Matt!!!

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Jassem A.

Investor · PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 602 votes

12y

Another possible option is to move someone who sells illegal weaponry in the downstairs unit so that the surrounding community has a one stop shop for guns and drugs.

14 Reply

Patrick L.

Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes

12y

@Chris Heeren I know you don't want to have both units empty at the same time but that's really your only choice. You have to get the drug dealers out or you'll never get quality tenants in the other unit so you'll end up renting to some of their customers. One tenant up to no good in a small multi family will prevent anybody that cares about their surroundings from renting any of the other units.....and if they do rent without knowing they will be unhappy and will constantly complain until you let them out of their lease.

The only question in my mind is the best way to remove them. I've generally worked with the local police to remove any drug dealers that have managed to make it into any of my apartments. Last time I put up 4 security cameras in the common area covering all of their entrances with one zoomed in on each of their door and another in the parking area to capture license plates. They got the hint and moved on but I was prepared to turn over any video the local PD that they wanted. I honestly could care less if my tenants are doing something like smoking pot if they pay the rent but I can't have anybody dealing on my property.

6 Reply

Dion DePaoliPro Member

Real Estate Broker · Northwest Indiana, IN · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

12y

Originally posted by Jassem A.:

Another possible option is to move someone who sells illegal weaponry in the downstairs unit so that the surrounding community has a one stop shop for guns and drugs.

That made me laugh out loud.

1 Reply

Engelo RumoraBusiness Member

Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

12y

At least you know they can afford the rent lollol

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Engelo RumoraBusiness Member

Investor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

12y

Originally posted by Jassem A.:

Another possible option is to move someone who sells illegal weaponry in the downstairs unit so that the surrounding community has a one stop shop for guns and drugs.

haha lol

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Wade Sikkink

Real Estate Investor · Lincoln, NE · Member since 2013 · 584 posts · 353 votes

12y

Lots of short term traffic is a huge red flag. Many years ago we had a drug dealer move into our nice neighborhood in the country. Guess he figured he would go unnoticed out here. Anyway, we started noticing a lot of different cars coming and going all day long, never staying longer than 10-20 min. My brother-in-law is a state trooper, so we started feeding him license plate numbers and he turned it over to the drug task force. They were looking for this guy and staked the place out for a week or so, then one Friday night the SWAT team moved in and took him down.

Somewhat long story, but the bottom line for the guy that owned the house was that the SWAT team did significant damage to the property during the raid. If you don't get them out now, the SWAT team could do it for you with a lot of damage and lots of trouble with your other tenant.

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Ernesto Rodriguez

Real Estate Investor · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2012 · 3 posts · 1 vote

12y

I've dealt with this before. They paid on time, didn't really disturbed anyone, great tenants in my opinion. And If they're legal medical users, what ever the term is for that, then they're not breaking the law. Like the above statement, if you try to evict them, your speculations are only going to anger the judge, since it sounds like you don't have evidence, and will hurt you in the long run if you have to see the same judge again. If they're paying, is there really a problem? You'll learn to overlook petty things like this in the long run. If worry too much about little things like this, you'll be out of business sooner than than you want. An empty unit can ruin you year's worth of profit. I know most of us want tenants that will behave and live like we don't, they won't. Perhaps you can knock on their door and and say " hey I've seen a high amount of foot traffic and it smells like pot, can you take care of that, otherwise you're gonna have to look for a new place to live" that should do it. I had a couple friends, potheads, not dealers that lived in an owner occupied duplex. The owner came forward and told them he could smell pot and they needed to stop that. Well, of course they didn't stop, they were a lot more careful about it or went elsewhere to smoke their pot. Never heard from him again. Wade makes a good point, property damage. However, if it's really pot... really swat team. Seems like a waste of tax payer dollar. Like I said before, what if he's a legal user. I'm in Michigan, we can enter our units within 34 hour written notice. Check on them, as long as they don't have any crazy pot growing operation. I don't really see the need to waste that much time worrying about it. Fix the bottom unit, get it rented and start collecting. Good luck with everything.

1 Reply

Ernesto Rodriguez

Real Estate Investor · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2012 · 3 posts · 1 vote

12y

24 hour.

0 Reply

John Thedford

Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes

12y

Very interesting replies. Sounds like a nice So Cal town to me:) I would caution anyone with actual knowledge (or maybe strong suspicions) from allowing this to go on. You don't have to be the "bad guy"....you only have to be the one "bad guy" allowing criminal activity on your property. Many state and federal laws exist where they can simply steal your property under the guise of public safety. I just had a property that had both civil and criminal forfeiture filed on by the FEDS. I got out with everything owed but I understand sometimes it can tie up your time and your mind for months if not years. I suggest having a nice talk with them face to face. If you are happy with them except for this one issues, tell them they are welcome to stay as long as the illegal activities stop. If they fail, get them out.

2 Reply

Aaron Yates

Investor · Macomb, MI · Member since 2013 · 654 posts · 115 votes

12y

Originally posted by Jassem A.:

Another possible option is to move someone who sells illegal weaponry in the downstairs unit so that the surrounding community has a one stop shop for guns and drugs.

What a GRAND idea!!!!!! LOL

0 Reply

Bill S.Pro Member

Moderator

Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

12y

I bought a place with a drug dealer. He ended up going to jail and SWAT didn't break down the doors. If I had it to do all over again, I would have moved them out asap with proper notice. I didn't have the money then but looking back, I should have done that. I got away with one there.

The po po will do significant damage if they do the no knock approach. I have seen the results and it's not pretty for the owner. I doubt pot would get SWAT involved but usually pot is only part of what is going on, with pot being a gateway drug. Based on the level of activity there (20 plus customers per day), it is more than a casual operation. That maybe why you got such a good deal for the property. I seriously doubt that talking to them will do anything. You mentioned the smell in common areas. Is that from smoking there? You might initiate a smoke free policy. You could use that for eviction and might find more sympathy from the courts.

Drug dealers are hard to root out. Just like any retail operation it has it's "service area" and the dealers are not going to look kindly upon you for shutting down their operation and forcing them to relocate. Even years after my dealer was gone I would see low life looking folks show up at the door. Please consider your personal safety. Even though your tenants are not an issue (which may or may not be the case) the people coming and going may need a fix and think about following you home to get some cash from the rich landlord. Also the people above your tenants in the operation, the ones supplying the drugs, can be much more ruthless. Your tenants are obviously users (from the smell) as well as dealing. User/dealers are the pawns. I wish you well and let us know how it turns out.

2 Reply

Zac P.

Rental Property Investor · Lexington, KY · Member since 2012 · 115 posts · 64 votes

12y

Work on your lease to where you can give notices and eventually evict based off of this. We have a "Home Business" clause in our lease. It basically states that you can't run a business based out of your rental if it involves people coming and going excessively. Give them a lease violation. If it happens again, they have violated the lease agreement and you have grounds for eviction.

1 Reply

Marcia Maynard

Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes

12y

I live in a state that legalized marijuana, but can and do have a no-smoking policy for all of our properties that does not allow smoking of any kind on the premises (in or outside of the unit).

From our rental agreement:

USE: Tenant agrees the premises will be used for dwelling purposes only and not for business. Tenant will not use said premises or any part thereof for any illegal purpose.

ILLEGAL DRUGS: It is forbidden to have, use, store, manufacture, or sell illegal drugs on the premises. Tenant agrees to take action to keep the premises free of illegal drugs and drug-related activity.

SUBSTANCE ABUSE: Tenant agrees not to allow any person residing on the premises, or any guest, or invitee to use controlled substances (including alcohol and prescription medications) in a manner that will either disturb the peace and quiet enjoyment of other Tenants and neighbors adjacent to the premises; or endanger the health and safety, or well-being of Tenants or other persons.

****

Some amusing comments on this thread, but in all reality you absolutely need to be concerned. Monitor your property closely and keep local law enforcement informed of significant findings. Law enforcement will only act on a preponderance of evidence. Partner with them.

We have inherited illegal drug users and have seen the illegal drug users transition to dealing. We have had the good tenant turn bad. We've also rented to tenants who passed our radar and turned out to be users and/or dealers. Rarely does a situation like this have a good outcome.

You have seen the red flags. If you don't take action to protect your property and strive to keep it safe and free of illegal activity, you will be opening yourself up to a different kind of risk - liability.

I agree with the comments of @Patrick L. and @Bill S. Your tenants are obviously attracting the wrong kind of people to your property. You must act now, and don't worry about the time of year and all of that. It's important to have enough cash reserves to weather through situations like this. You may be able save the tenancy, but don't count on it, especially if they are into addictive substances. If it were me, I would address the issue prior to renting out the other unit.

Keep us posted and good luck.

3 Reply

Brian Mathews

Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes

12y

It seems as if the solution is being avoided. Call the cops and let them know you suspect drug activity in your property. They will take care of it however necessary. Suppose somebody gets hurt or killed in a transaction going bad and they find out you had suspicions about it? Or you move a family in and one of the kids get hurt by some stoned jackass. I lived in a place years ago that the guy underneath me got killed in a transaction gone bad, got his head blown off. The place couldn't be rented for 2 months and was basically unrentable after that as nobody wanted to live in a place that somebody was murdered in. How much will that cost you? Do what's right and move on in life. It might be a little painful for a while, but you'll recover and be ok in the end and be able to sleep at night.

2 Reply

Evan Stich

Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 9 posts · 0 votes

12y

This is definitely a difficult situation. As hard as it may seem, I think you need to try to get these people out of there. Even if they aren't dealing drugs, the smell and the foot traffic would most likely be enough to drive first floor tenants crazy. It's one thing if you have no idea of what's going on, but since you have your suspicion, it only reflects negatively on you if you turn the other cheek. Good luck! I'd be interested in knowing how it pans out for you.

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Chris Heeren

OP

Investor · Janesville, WI · Member since 2013 · 180 posts · 155 votes

12y

Since the tenants came with the purchase of the house, they don't necessarily have anything in their lease at the moment. I plan on having a property management company take over starting January 1st as this is when the lower unit will be finished and wouldn't mind dealing with this issue myself before they get involved. First question: How do you approach changing a lease during mid term? Do I simply have draft a new lease up and have them sign it? What legal options do I have if they choose not to sign the new lease?

0 Reply

Bill S.Pro Member

Moderator

Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes

12y

You can't make them sign a new lease. You are stuck, just like they are, with the current lease until it expires. You can let them know, No renewal, if they don't resign your lease now. You both can mutually agree to modifications to the current lease but no one "has to" sign it. How much longer is on their current lease?

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Ernesto Rodriguez

Real Estate Investor · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2012 · 3 posts · 1 vote

12y

That's actually a good idea. I did that once, with tenants that came with the house. You tell them you're the new owner and they need to re-sign a new lease. Make it a month to month lease a boot them when you're ready. I've closed REOs and SS with tenants, by law if tenants come with the property, they have 90 days to vacate the property, with written notice ( MI law) if you wish to have vacant units. Otherwise you can just have them sign a new lease. Same when a company is bought by another company, they make employees sign new applications... I remember it happening to me when I was a teen. It's a way of gathering information. You would be doing the same, use the M2M approach as your of managing your leases.

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Stephen S.

Wholesaler · Holiday, FL · Member since 2013 · 571 posts · 221 votes

12y

I guess I'm a little different. I believe I'd find something which needed doing very slowly in the stairs to the upper unit. And then to everybody that wasn't my tenant I would say: Who are you? What are you doing here? on their way in and then things like: "wow that didn't take long, did it? and: "did you just stop to use the bathroom or what?" and: "leaving already? seems like you just got here" and also: "what's in that jar? Let me see that."

Then the next time I saw the tenant I'd say: "Who the hell are all these people running in and out of here all the time? It's like Grand Central Station or something."

And the next time the tenants were gone I would hear water running in their unit and have go in to investigate in every corner of the place for moisture. My leg would hurt that day and I'd take sledgehammer handle to lean on and balance out my weight with a small automatic.

If I found anything I'd wait there until they got home and have a little talk with them: I like you guys, you're good tenants, and I'd hate to see you go - but I can't have this **** here. Not now and not ever. If you get caught the police can confiscate this whole place from me - and I'm not interested in having that happen to me. You get it out of here and you do something with it all and I mean Right Now. And this will be the only warning you will ever get - you understand me?

And then I'd pay even more attention to the foot traffic frequency to stay on top of the situation.

Of course if you find nothing - then maybe it is nothing.

stephen
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Originally posted by Chris Heeren:
I just purchased my first Upper/Lower Duplex and have 3 tenants in the upper unit. I have been renovating the lower the last few weeks and am almost ready to rent the 3 Bedroom place out. The upper tenants are nice/friendly kids who have been living there for 2 years and have always paid their rent on time and great to deal with. However, as I have been working there the last several weeks, the common area's constantly smell like pot and during an entire day 20-30 people will come and leave the property at various times. Some sneak around the back entrance and tip toe up the stair-well. I have also seen some people leave with glass jars of which I couldn't see the contents, though they do have about 4-5 cases of empty glass jars in their storage area.
I'm looking for advice on how to deal with this scenario? If I evict them before I have a tenant on the lower level I'm stuck paying all the bills through out the winter. What grounds do I have to send an eviction notice other than the smell? I was thinking of sending them a warning/complaint message about the amount of traffic going in and out of the property? Any advice would be appreciated!

2 Reply

Karen M.

Hales Corners, WI · Member since 2013 · 229 posts · 80 votes

12y

Get the drug dealing out of your property, don't even think of letting this pass or consider putting new tenants into an unsafe residence.

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Duplex came with Drug Dealers

Duplex came with Drug Dealers

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