Can I look at it as a refusal for the security deposit return?

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Can I look at it as a refusal for the security deposit return?

Mary Jay
Glendale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 238 votes

 I received this text from the past tenant:

"I lost my job today but if you need that money more than me then you can shove it up your f-ing ***..."

Can use this as a refusal by the tenant for the security deposit?

If the tenant decides to go to court over the security deposit, I feel like I could use his text as a proof that the tenant voluntarily refused the security deposit. Am I right?

(When the tenant moved out, the carpets were in a bad shape so I had to clean it twice. A year ago when the tenant just moved it there was a leak so the construction people had to take out the cabinets to fix it but the tenant would not let them leave the cabinets inside the house and made them to keep the cabinets in the backyard outside, which obviously damaged the cabinets. So I was not planning on returning the security deposit anyway)...I feel like his text message just will make my case stronger if it comes to court, correct?

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Richard F.
Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
3y
Aloha,

What do local LL/Tenant laws require with regard to return of deposit? What is the penalty for NOT making a good faith effort to fulfill those requirements?

Typically you should have documentation (photos and written checklist) of the move IN condition, signed by the Tenant. You should have similar documentation of the conditions at move out for comparison. You also cannot generally just pick an arbitrary amount to deduct from SD...you need actual paid invoices for materials, and/or third party estimates. Judges rarely place any value on your personal hours spent with turnover repairs. There is usually a specific timeline for providing an accounting of any deductions, which you need to send to the Tenant. If they did not provide forwarding info, send it to their "last known" which would be the rental. When it arrives, keep it, unopened, in your Tenant file in case you need proof later that you did make that good faith effort.

If you/your contractor left cabinets outside in the elements unprotected, that would be your choice, not Tenant fault, and certainly no grounds for deduction a year later. Managing Rentals is a business, you need to start treating it as such, and take the emotions out of it.
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  • Richard F.
    Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y
    Aloha,

    What do local LL/Tenant laws require with regard to return of deposit? What is the penalty for NOT making a good faith effort to fulfill those requirements?

    Typically you should have documentation (photos and written checklist) of the move IN condition, signed by the Tenant. You should have similar documentation of the conditions at move out for comparison. You also cannot generally just pick an arbitrary amount to deduct from SD...you need actual paid invoices for materials, and/or third party estimates. Judges rarely place any value on your personal hours spent with turnover repairs. There is usually a specific timeline for providing an accounting of any deductions, which you need to send to the Tenant. If they did not provide forwarding info, send it to their "last known" which would be the rental. When it arrives, keep it, unopened, in your Tenant file in case you need proof later that you did make that good faith effort.

    If you/your contractor left cabinets outside in the elements unprotected, that would be your choice, not Tenant fault, and certainly no grounds for deduction a year later. Managing Rentals is a business, you need to start treating it as such, and take the emotions out of it.
    2Reply
  • Mary Jay
    OP
    Glendale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 238 votes
    3y

    thank you so much!

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    3y
    Quote from @Mary Jay:

    It doesn't matter what he said. He caused damage to the property and is contractually and legally obligated to pay for that damage. Apply the deposit. If he still owes more, send him a bill and give him 30 days to pay for it. If he refuses, turn him over to collections.

    If you follow the lease and the law, you don't have to worry about how the tenant is going to react.

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  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    3y

    The tenant didnt give you permission to keep the security deposit. They gave you permission to shove it up your ***.

    Now if you show up to court and pull the security deposit out of your ***, then I think you will be ok.

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  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    3y

    Charge the tenant for damages that they did to the unit and return the balance of the deposit.  You don't need their permission to keep or return anything.  

    For the cabinets, if they were stored outside during repairs, they should have been properly stored to prevent damage.  Unless the tenant did something (ie remove the tarps covering them) that caused the damage, that is not their fault.

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  • Mary Jay
    OP
    Glendale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 238 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Nathan Gesner:
    Quote from @Mary Jay:

    It doesn't matter what he said. He caused damage to the property and is contractually and legally obligated to pay for that damage. Apply the deposit. If he still owes more, send him a bill and give him 30 days to pay for it. If he refuses, turn him over to collections.

    If you follow the lease and the law, you don't have to worry about how the tenant is going to react.


     Thank you so much! Do you need a court order to send to a collection? 

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  • Mary Jay
    OP
    Glendale, AZ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 238 votes
    2y
    Quote from @Russell Brazil:

    The tenant didnt give you permission to keep the security deposit. They gave you permission to shove it up your ***.

    Now if you show up to court and pull the security deposit out of your ***, then I think you will be ok.

     Great idea lol If the tenant decides to sue, I will just say: I did exactly what the tenant said, so there is no grounds for this law suit 

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  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    2y
    Quote from @Mary Jay:

    Having a judgment adds validity to your claim, but it's not necessary. I can't share contact information in the forums, but you can contact me privately and request contact information for the collection agency I use.
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  • Andrew B.
    Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    2y

    Honestly, using trying to use this text as justification for keeping the deposit would be unprofessional, and very likely to fail in court. You should proceed as though they never sent that text. Itemize damages and deduct them from your deposit. Send an accounting when you're done to return anything left or to advise how much extra is owed. 

    I will add a comment on the cabinet situation since you volunteered the info. IMO the cabinet damage is not the tenants fault. They didn't want the cabinets stored inside and you chose to accommodate them. Whatever happened after that is your fault as you agreed to let the contractor take them outside and you chose not to find alternate storage. Personally, I wouldn't feel comfortable arguing that one in front of a judge. Now if the tenant took the cabinets outside after the contractor stored them inside, it would be 100% different. 

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