I have a house that I've been using as an airbnb and had some questions about the market if anyone has some insight.
Thanks!
Edit: In particular, wanted to know about LTR potential and growth potential of the area in general. I'm not too familiar with the area and wanted to pick the brains of someone who knows more. Thanks!
Sunny, would you still not recommend an STR in the area? I'm looking at a property in Tobyhanna.
I am not against it but I would tread very carefully and run your numbers conservatively. here is why:
-Most STRs are in HOA, you have high HOAs and almost all these HOAs have sort of special charges and rules for guests, These costs can be upwards of 3k just to operate.
- HOAs are not the only problem, as townships want a piece of the pie, they have started putting in regulations. example- if your septics size is 1000g your house is considered legally a 3 bedroom STR regardless of bedrooms you have(and max of 2 people per bedroom). So you can legally host a max of 6 people.
- Tobhyhanna Township fees are 600 and they want you to have commercial liability insurance and septic pumped and evaluated with written record every 3 years. That should be close to another 2grand in total.
The market is very competitive right now, I see people renting houses for $99/day, really! That's cheaper than the poorest motel you can find. And I am talking about in Ski season right now. And these houses are not like run-down houses, most probably new ones or the ones trying to stay above the water because they got a mortgage at 8% or above.
-Most of the Poconos do not have trash/recycle pickup from the curb, you can get that service at an added cost but for STR you need more than once a week so having some boots on the ground is a must-have.
-The Poconos economy is not so great, it is not like a national park where people fly from all over US, our major guests are from PA, NJ and NY mostly coming for ski resorts, water parks, and college kids partying for the weekend.
-Lastly, if you are not local and have a full-time job, get ready to spend time on projects, you will need to meet contractors, vet them, and work with them.
Regardless of all this,
--if you have a good mortgage rate/no mortgage or
--you are in a situation where you can dedicate plenty of time or
--Poconos is like your family's go-to spot or
--maybe this is Tax strategy move for you
It can be a worthwhile investment. For me personally, I am at a phase where I am trying to reduce the workload and if I can get similar returns as of Poconos STR with LTR, I would go for an LTR.
Overall NOI can be good in Poconos but your capex, mortgage, HOA, and township fees eat away a healthy chunk. So to invest or not it depends on what situation you are in and what strategy you are trying to implement. I hope I did not discourage you and painted more of a clearer picture of what to expect and how to see some of the expenses around the corner.
Real Estate Agent · South Jersey and Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 52 posts · 13 votes
2y
I have a few investments up there. I am kind of tired with STR investments up there.
I do not think there is great value in LTR in that zip code, The economy is not so great there so it is not like there are many jobs and people move there for jobs.
Finding good contractors is another pain most of them do not show up or do not do a decent job.
Even cash flow might not be great considering you will have to pay community fees etc.
I have a house that I've been using as an airbnb and had some questions about the market if anyone has some insight.
Thanks!
Edit: In particular, wanted to know about LTR potential and growth potential of the area in general. I'm not too familiar with the area and wanted to pick the brains of someone who knows more. Thanks!
Danny, the appreciation in this areas is insane. I pulled up the area on BrightInvestor and this area has seen massive growth with very little pull back over the past year. I'm not even local and know enough to say this might be a solid place to hold a property for the long term.
BI has rent growth on it to so I'm sure you can get some answers on LTR potential here.
Sunny, would you still not recommend an STR in the area? I'm looking at a property in Tobyhanna.
I am not against it but I would tread very carefully and run your numbers conservatively. here is why:
-Most STRs are in HOA, you have high HOAs and almost all these HOAs have sort of special charges and rules for guests, These costs can be upwards of 3k just to operate.
- HOAs are not the only problem, as townships want a piece of the pie, they have started putting in regulations. example- if your septics size is 1000g your house is considered legally a 3 bedroom STR regardless of bedrooms you have(and max of 2 people per bedroom). So you can legally host a max of 6 people.
- Tobhyhanna Township fees are 600 and they want you to have commercial liability insurance and septic pumped and evaluated with written record every 3 years. That should be close to another 2grand in total.
The market is very competitive right now, I see people renting houses for $99/day, really! That's cheaper than the poorest motel you can find. And I am talking about in Ski season right now. And these houses are not like run-down houses, most probably new ones or the ones trying to stay above the water because they got a mortgage at 8% or above.
-Most of the Poconos do not have trash/recycle pickup from the curb, you can get that service at an added cost but for STR you need more than once a week so having some boots on the ground is a must-have.
-The Poconos economy is not so great, it is not like a national park where people fly from all over US, our major guests are from PA, NJ and NY mostly coming for ski resorts, water parks, and college kids partying for the weekend.
-Lastly, if you are not local and have a full-time job, get ready to spend time on projects, you will need to meet contractors, vet them, and work with them.
Regardless of all this,
--if you have a good mortgage rate/no mortgage or
--you are in a situation where you can dedicate plenty of time or
--Poconos is like your family's go-to spot or
--maybe this is Tax strategy move for you
It can be a worthwhile investment. For me personally, I am at a phase where I am trying to reduce the workload and if I can get similar returns as of Poconos STR with LTR, I would go for an LTR.
Overall NOI can be good in Poconos but your capex, mortgage, HOA, and township fees eat away a healthy chunk. So to invest or not it depends on what situation you are in and what strategy you are trying to implement. I hope I did not discourage you and painted more of a clearer picture of what to expect and how to see some of the expenses around the corner.
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