Tenant complain about mold

Tenant complain about mold

Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes

Tenant complain that there might be mold. So, he ordered mold inspection directly without my approval. Now, he wants me to reimburse the inspection cost saying that there is mold.

To me, mold can easily be found with humidity >50%. I am more pissed with the fact that tenant can just order inspection as he please and wants to charge me?? instead of I am the one request the inspection. The inspection that he ordered cost ~$550.

What should I do?

thanks.

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Contractor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 112 posts · 67 votes
12y

As a former ASHI home inspector and contractor, I fully agree with Bryan. Give me an hour and I'll find mold in any and every house, at least here in Minnesota. $100,000 question is what type of mold is it and what's the cause. If it's due to leaving wet towels on the floor or hanging them on a wood door, the solution is simple. If it's a leaky window flashing then it depends on how long it's been leaking. Really need to get someone in there that has your approval to inspect using whatever means necessary to fine the cause and degree of the problem. Don't allow the tenant to cancel anything. It's your house, take care of it.

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  • Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes
    12y

    Should we allow tenants to order $550 mold inspection as they please and charge it to ur?

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    @Richard Vang,

    You should be more concerns if the inspector found mold.

    Joe Gore
  • Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes
    12y

    He said the inspector found mold. But, mold can be found easily right? but, most mold are non-toxic?

    He sent me a few pictures. Those looks like some mold that can be found easily in our bathroom. a little bigger spots.

  • Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 218 votes
    12y

    They can order it only if they first reported it to you, gave you ample time to correct the problem and you failed to do so. But, if they failed to communicate their concerns to you IN WRITING, they are not entitled to be reimbursed.

    Now, do you have a copy of the "report"? I would have that report reviewed by someone else and if verified. CORRECT THE ISSUE.

    Have your tenants been complaining about other items? Have they recently lost their jobs, etc? Sad to say, but these are common issues that tenants bring up. "MOLD" is the hot button topic. They like to use it to get out of a lease, out of paying, etc.

    If there is mold, you need to get it corrected. But if they didn't raise the concern with you prior then you do not need to "reimburse" them for it. Get the report, have your own person review it.

    Offer them the chance to move out and break their lease without penalty. If they really feel there is mold, they should jump at this chance.

    Yeah, this is the cynical side of me coming out.

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    the inspection is on him if he did not bring it to you upfront. The remediation is on you if there is mold. But you are right , not all mold is dangerous. I would go with your own company to deal with it but that is me. I think some companies are in the business of creating business...

  • Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    12y

    Was there a report based on his test that says what kind of mold or what the issues could be with it?

    I would be very very hard pressed to pay for this test if he never informed you about the issue prior to just ordering the test. That's not to say I wouldn't pay for it, but if you just pay then he may consider this an acceptable act again in the future.

  • Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes
    12y

    The tenant just shoot me an email on friday saying that "I already ordered a mold inspection schedule saturday".

    @Matt Devincenzo, the detailed report will be out on thursday. My fear is if i pay now, then, what if he started to order the mold inspection again and again? Then, it might lead to so many other type of inspection...

  • Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes
    12y

    @Ryan, First time he reported it was a few months ago. I told him we will send my handyman out to clean the wall and repaint the wall. But, then, he changed his mind and cancel my handyman. To me, cleaning mold just need to spray with bleach and scrub a bit. For better, I even offered him to repaint the wall. But, then, last friday, he just shoot me email saying that "I already ordered a mold inspection schedule saturday". WTH.

  • Waukesha, WI · Member since 2013 · 87 posts · 6 votes
    12y

    In the City of Milwaukee this is how mold is handled

    What Can I Do As A Tenant?

    Generally, the landlord is responsible for repairing moisture problems and cleaning up mold, unless it is a minor issue related to the tenant's behavior. Tenants should look at their own behaviors to determine whether they may contribute to the moisture problem that is causing mold.
    Here are some tips:

    • Always use bathroom fans during and after bathing / showering.
    • Avoid spilling liquids on carpet. If this occurs, quickly dry carpets (if carpets stay wet, notify the landlord).
    • Use the kitchen fans when cooking.
    • Don't run the shower to humidify you home.
    • Avoid using humidifiers unless there is a medical reason to use one.
    • Ensure good air environment in your home to prevent condensation on cold surfaces
      open windows when possible
      don't block supply and return registers with furniture
      keep a few inches of space between furniture and walls
      don't let parts of your home get very cold (such as closets against exterior walls)
    • Watch what you put down drains to avoid clogging and over-flows

    When moisture problems do occur, it is critical to quickly report the cause of moisture and to dry affected areas. Tenants should promptly notify their landlord when they find a moisture problem or mold growth. Common moisture problems include pipe leaks, roof leaks, sewage back-ups, and over flowing toilets / sinks / bathtubs. A verbal communication should be followed up with a letter to avoid misunderstandings. The tenant should keep a copy of this letter, for possible use in future legal proceedings. A timely response is in the interest of both the tenant and the landlord because delays may result in greater costs to clean and repair.


    What Can Be Done About Indoor Mold?

    Tenants and landlords should try to work cooperatively to investigate and correct moisture problems and remove mold growth. If mold can be seen, if a musty odor is present, or if there is good reason to believe health problems are being caused by mold, a careful inspection of the home should be conducted. Attention should be paid to hidden areas, such as plumbing access areas, crawl spaces, behind mirrors, attics, behind furnishings, closets and cupboards. Correcting a mold problem properly requires fixing the moisture problem, removing the mold, and keeping the home dry in the future. Mold growth should be cleaned from (non-porous) surfaces such as concrete, metal, glass, tile, and solid wood. Mold growth is difficult to clean on absorbent (porous) surfaces such as dry wall, carpet, fleecy furnishing and insulation. These moldy materials should be discarded. Personal belongings can be kept if there is no mold growth in them. They may need a deep cleaning to remove mold particles that have settled in the fabric. Merely applying a chemical, like bleach without removing the mold growth is not an effective solution; neither is simply painting over the problem. There are numerous private contractors who specialize in inspecting or cleaning mold in homes. Where problems cannot be identified or safely remediated, the landlord may want to hire a residential service provider. In addition, certain moisture problems may be covered under property or renter insurance.


    What Are My Options If The Owner Refuses To Help?

    There are no legal requirements specific to mold in most residential settings. However, Most State Laws requires that a landlord must provide an apartment that is habitable and in reasonable repair. If an apartment becomes uninhabitable, the landlord has violated or breached the lease. When owners or occupants of mold-damaged buildings are unable or unwilling to correct a problem resulting in indoor mold growth, insurers, private contractors, non-governmental assistance organizations or possibly local units of government may be able to assist. If, and how, government agencies are able to respond to complaints in rental settings depends on the status of local codes or ordinances, and what authority the local program has for dealing with this issue. The following are steps that the tenant may take if the landlord fails to make necessary repairs

    Contact the Local Health Department
    If a local housing inspection program does not exist or the housing code cannot be applied, than the tenant could try to file a complaint with the local city or county health department. Some local public health agencies may declare a property a public health nuisance and may issue correction orders to the landlord.

    Contact the Municipal Building Official
    Tenants may also seek assistance from their local building code official, if there is one. The building official may inspect the unit to determine if it is structurally sound. They may also, in some cases, enforce maintenance provisions of the building code.

    Legal Action
    If a housing, health, or building code inspection is not available or the inspection does not result in a correction order, a tenant may still be able to establish that the unit is uninhabitable. Tenants who feel that their landlord has failed to maintain their rental unit in good repair must notify the landlord in writing and request that repairs are made within 14 days or sooner. The tenant should keep a copy of this letter. If the landlord fails to make the requested repairs 14 days after the tenant's letter was sent or following an inspector's deadline, the tenant can take legal action. The tenant should try to document the problem, where applicable, with letters, photographs, evidence of health problems, orders from local inspectors, and any other documentation that would help the case.


    Who Is Responsible For My Belongings?

    Tenant's are responsible for their own belongings unless they can prove that the owner's negligence in maintaining the building contributed to the damage. The insurance carried by the building owner does not cover tenant's personal belongings. The tenant could try to sue the landlord for lost belongings. Tenants can purchase renter's insurance. The terms of the policy dictate what coverage is provided. Mold damage may not be covered by the policy, while water damage may be covered. To make a claim to renter's insurance provider, tenants should document the damage with photographs and written descriptions, and then contact their insurer regarding policy coverage and specific filing requirements.


    Action Advice for Tenants in Moldy Apartments

    On-site inspection is important: Keep in mind that anyone whose opinion you seek by telephone, email, or web "prospecting", even if he or she is very competent, is distant and can't see all of the site conditions. Therefore such advice can only be general, and we must keep in mind that there could be, in fact probably are, important observations that might change the assessment of an individual situation as well as the advice on steps to take, also its important to get it documented by a mold professional and AIHA accredited lab, with a proper chain of custody.
  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    That kind of changes the picture, doesn't it? You had months of notice. State laws will vary, here you would very likely be cutting him a check for the inspection, and be under an order for remediation. And this isn't even considered a tenant-friendly state.

    Mold can be nothing, or it can be way beyond "spray with bleach and paint" territory. If nothing else, protecting your investment should inspire you to take reports seriously.

    Have to agree with Joe Gore on this one.

  • Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 218 votes
    12y

    @Richard Vang you will want to have a paper trail of all communications with this tenant.

    As to mold, bleaching it doesn't always remove it. What if it emanated from behind the sheetrock/plaster? So the source is still there, you are just removing what you can see. Honestly, if you admitted to there being mold, you should have done a full mold test.

    If the full report isn't due until Thursday, there is nothing to do until then. Because you can't treat what you don't know in full.


    With that being said, how do you know the "mold inspector" isn't friends with your tenant? If there was mold you should have ordered your own. You still should. Since your tenant, did not in writing, alert you, you shouldn't have to pay that inspection. It is on you to order it.

    But as I said, you just even acknowledged here you knew there was an issue "MONTHS" ago.

  • Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes
    12y

    @Richard C. No, I act immediate after his notice. after he noticed me, I immediately sending handyman over. But, he is the one who cancelled on my handyman.

  • Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    months ago, I immediately send my handyman to fix the issue. But, the tenant cancelled on my handyman.

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    That is not an adequate response, unless your handyman is a licensed inspector with a full lab in his garage. Your tenant quite likely considered that an attempt on your part to cover up the problem rather than fix it. Which it was.

    Or Ryan is right and he just wants out (though I doubt the inspector would actually put his license at risk but issuing a finding where there is no mold.)

    Either way, the way you find out is by taking it seriously and ordering an inspection of your own.

  • Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 218 votes
    12y

    And did you still attempt to get in there and remedy the situation? Both sides are at fault here then, but you are admitting to knowledge. so ORDER a report on your own. Or wait for the full report and have it reviewed by someone you hire.

    Just saying, if you knew there was an issue, but didn't correct it only because the tenant needed to "reschedule" months ago... you could be in some trouble if this goes the legal route. I suggest you handle it.

    As to the tenant ordering the test without first communicating the ongoing issue, attempting to reschedule the repairs, etc They are at fault as well. They key here is just resolve the issue. Fix the mold!

  • Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    No, I wanted to fix the problems months ago. Tenant was the one cancelled it saying, "he changed his mind since there is no evidence of mold".

    Thanks for the feedback. I think both are slightly at fault. I agree with Ryan "MOLD" is just the over rated hot button topic. Tenants like to use it to get out of a lease, out of paying, etc.

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y

    All we are saying is sending your handyman is not solving the problem. Mold can be a more serious problem than you seem to realize.

    In fairness, maybe this is a regional thing, if you are in a dry area. Here, every so often entire houses are lost to mold on occasion.

    But take it seriously. If I can offer an analogy, a report of mold should be treated more like "We have no water!" than "Our faucet is leaking."

  • Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 218 votes
    12y

    @Richard Vang you said the tenant said there was no evidence of MOLD? is that in writing?

  • Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Richard Vang:

    He sent me a few pictures. Those looks like some mold that can be found easily in our bathroom. a little bigger spots.

    Can you share those pictures on here? I'd be curious to see what this is in reference to.

    I honestly love it when my tenants come to me with issues. I address them right away and do not let them turn in to bigger issues.

  • Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    Too bad. No. I sent my handyman to check and fix the issue. but, when my handyman called tenant to schedule the time for entering the premises, the tenant cancelled (during the phone call) with my handyman.

  • Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 218 votes
    12y

    @Richard Vang I would suggest getting in there, to remediate the problem. As to paying for the inspection, if he didn't ask you several times to do it yourself i wouldn't pay for it. If he threatens to move out, offer him the door. If a tenant is doing this, not a good tenant.

    But if he just sees you are fixing the issues, he should quiet down. Again when you get the full report, I would love for you to come back and share the findings with us.

  • Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    Thanks. Your input helped a lot.

    I wish he will move. I have been landlord for almost 10 years. Never in my life that i hear any tenant order inspection by themselves and want to charge the landlord without prior approval.

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes
    12y

    Every house has mold. Including mine. Tell the tenant to pound sand.

  • Contractor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 112 posts · 67 votes
    12y

    As a former ASHI home inspector and contractor, I fully agree with Bryan. Give me an hour and I'll find mold in any and every house, at least here in Minnesota. $100,000 question is what type of mold is it and what's the cause. If it's due to leaving wet towels on the floor or hanging them on a wood door, the solution is simple. If it's a leaky window flashing then it depends on how long it's been leaking. Really need to get someone in there that has your approval to inspect using whatever means necessary to fine the cause and degree of the problem. Don't allow the tenant to cancel anything. It's your house, take care of it.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    12y

    What are you going to do when the tenant orders a new roof and siding?

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