Tenant complain about mold
Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes
Tenant complain about mold
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Contractor · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 112 posts · 67 votes
12yAs a former ASHI home inspector and contractor, I fully agree with Bryan. Give me an hour and I'll find mold in any and every house, at least here in Minnesota. $100,000 question is what type of mold is it and what's the cause. If it's due to leaving wet towels on the floor or hanging them on a wood door, the solution is simple. If it's a leaky window flashing then it depends on how long it's been leaking. Really need to get someone in there that has your approval to inspect using whatever means necessary to fine the cause and degree of the problem. Don't allow the tenant to cancel anything. It's your house, take care of it.
44 Replies
- Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 218 votes12y
Originally posted by @Chris Christianson:
... It's your house, take care of it.That pretty much sums it up right there!
- Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes12y
first question to answer is what does the tenant want exactly? is the tenant sick? what are we talking about?...this is your home, not the tenant's. if they reported the mold to you and you did nothing months ago...clearly you are negligent, yet negligent of what exactly? making your tenants sick? what exactly is the problem outside of mold existing??...I would suggest you go there and schedule with the tenant to go (if they refuse, on them and likely violation of lease) have legit guy cut mold crap out, figure out and rectify source of moisture, then replace/fix. HAVE TENANT SIGN AND TAKE PICTURES.....once complete, now its time to ask yourself a question, how much is this battle worth to you?? if this a good tenant? easy to replace? expensive to replace? how much of that mold inspection are you willing to pay to avoid a problem? what if tenant starts complaining about being sick and your negligence contributing to as much? handle this with kid gloves and remove your pride from the equation.
- Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes12y
Just curious... what's the best method to ask them to "pound sand"?
- Residential Real Estate Agent · Cookeville, TN · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 948 votes12y
I have found that tenants often start complaining about stuff like this when they want to break the lease and move for some other reason. They often are looking for an excuse. I once had a tenant who complained that the house had termite damage. I said, "I know it does, we had the property treated, the termites are now dead, why do you care?". They claimed that they were concerned about structural damage, and then I admitted to them that I worked professionally as a structural engineer in times past and that there was nothing wrong with the house structurally. Then they complained about the floor not being level (supposedly from the termite damage, and a very small amount of slope too). I said, yes many older houses are like this, and this one was also already like this when you looked at it and wanted to rent here. What's your point? Basically, they were just hunting for an excuse to move out early.
- Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes12y
Is there any best way of asking him to move?
I feel like asking him to move if he wants. Never in my life that i hear any tenant ordered inspection by themselves without prior approval and want to charge the landlord. I prefer him moving because I am so afraid that he will come out with other crazy stuff like "air inspection, water inspection, termite inspection, radio active inspection, pollen inspection" etc... hahaa...
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes12y
Just give the tenant their full deposit back and ask them to move. You don't want the tenant going to a doctor saying they are sick from mold.
Joe Gore - Broker, Investor, Property Restorer · Fox Point, WI · Member since 2012 · 288 posts · 120 votes12y
@Richard Vang -I would be VERY, VERY careful with this mold issue! My brother owns several rentals and had a HORRIBLE experience with a tenant and mold about 5 years ago or so. His tenant was basically a nutcase who lived in a beautiful SFR my brother owned and she trashed the entire place. My brother takes exceptionally good care of his rentals and this place was in perfect shape when she moved in. When she left, there was a LITTLE BIT of mold in the basement, under where the bathroom tub had leaked a bit and which she had never told him about. Well, she also had just split from her husband and started dating a lawyer who specialized in-GUESS WHAT-MOLD LAWSUITS!!!
Sure enough, she sued him asking for unspecified damages, claiming that her older child, who was maybe 3 years old, had a learning disability and some other issues, all because of the mold. PLUS, she claimed that her newborn child (from the ex-husband) was born with all sorts of issues, including (I swear I'm not making this up!) a deformed penis! My brother's insurance company got involved and in the end, ended up blowing them out of the courtroom, BUT my brother went through over a year of hell because of this! He and his partner had to give multiple depositions, go through all sorts of lawsuit related CRAP to fight this case. Plus, his insurance coverage had a limit of $50k for mold damages, so had she won a big judgement, after the ins co paid that first $50k, the rest would've come out of his pocket, it could've wiped him out financially! To this day, he still says that was the worst and most stressful year of his entire 50+ years and it was all because of this nutjob tenant looking for a big payday because of some mold BS!
That's why I now take mold stuff very seriously!
- Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes12y
any suggestion to take care of this? Just reimburse the tenant and fix the problem?
thanks
- Broker, Investor, Property Restorer · Fox Point, WI · Member since 2012 · 288 posts · 120 votes12y
I would say fix the problem immediately and keep a record of everything you do to remedy the situation, take pictures, make notes, video the whole thing, whatever, but have proof that you took the situation seriously. As far as reimbursing them, I'm not sure, they didn't clear it with you beforehand did they? Do you have a real estate attorney that you work with that could give you some free advice here?
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes12y
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes12y
DOCUMENTATION when a problem arises is everything.
When you go to court you can show the judge over and over where you tried to fix but the tenant declined.
You do not even know if this is mold or mildew. There is a difference. Probably threw the tenant off when you said I will send handyman over to rig it and scrub with sprayer.
What that says to tenant is " I don't care if your sick or to fix properly I just want to be cheap as the owner "
No legal advice.
- Broker, Investor, Property Restorer · Fox Point, WI · Member since 2012 · 288 posts · 120 votes12y
@Account Closed -I don't quite get what you're asking for? The lawsuit I referenced was one in which my brother was being sued by a former crazy tenant who trashed his beautiful SFR and then sued him because of supposed mold. As far as I know, its not posted anywhere!
- Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes12y
All I was asking is direct everyone to the court case where we can view the results and maybe learn from it.
Joe Gore - Broker, Investor, Property Restorer · Fox Point, WI · Member since 2012 · 288 posts · 120 votes12y
I understand. Its not online anywhere to be seen as far as I know, other than here in WI we have the CCAP system which allows anyone to look up anyone else's state court records. Its listed there, but that's just basically court dates and stuff like that, nothing anyone can really learn from.
What I learned from his experience is that you really have to document stuff and keep records of everything as far as serious tenant complaints go and how you handled them. What was frustrating in his case was that he actually did take care of all of her (many) various complaints, she was complaining about something different every week it seemed. I think that was more of a case of one of those one-in-a-million (or maybe more like one-in-a-hundred!) bad tenants that just complains about everything and who obviously has other issues going on in her life as well. I just got to see first hand how it really turned his life into a living hell for quite a while as this case hung over his head and all of the hoops he had to jump through to prove that he did what he should've done.
The craziest thing about it is he truly is an excellent landlord who goes the extra mile for his tenants, his other rentals have all had long-term tenants who stay for years. In one of his duplexes, the guys who lived there loved it so much that they ended up putting together a deal where they turned it into two condos and they bought the place from him! Yet, even with all of that "good landlord karma" going for him, this one nutjob was able to put him through hell for a year or more as he had to worry every day about losing everything he owned in the chance that she somehow won a big judgement against him!
- Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 84 posts · 52 votes12y
@Robert Taylor that sounds horrible. I'm glad the good guy won, but the stress... wow. I don't think I'd have the patience to handle a tenant like that with such grace.
@Richard Vang if I were you, and what you're saying is accurate, I'd personally do the following: 1) Let my tenant know they're not getting a cent from me for scheduling some random test. I would also inform them if they felt there was an issue (for future reference) that they're obliged to inform you and give you ample time to inspect and take the necessary procedures afterwards. 2) I'd immediately get a second opinion on their test. Unfortunately, mold is one of those things that is going to exist everywhere if you look hard enough--especially in a wet environment like a bathroom. The problem is how is it getting there? Are they leaving wet items bunched up on the floor and not turning on the exhaust fan? Are they spilling water out of the tub/sink by being sloppy and not drying it up? Doesn't matter what property you have, if the tenants are doing things like that it will cause mildew/mold issues. 3) Remedy the issue immediately, don't mess around and drag your feet. Mold is such a hot button item that people will love to tear you apart for it even though the majority of it is all scare tactic. That being said, I still hate mold so I wouldn't want it in my properties.
Document every last thing you can. Let your tenant know you're not messing around and that you will fix serious issues--the key word being YOU (the landlord) will fix them, not the tenant.
- Real Estate Investor · Carmichael, CA · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 16 votes12y
@Eric Y. thank you. Very good input. I told my tenant nothing can be reimburse without detailed written notice and written approval from me.
I will have my own inspector review the report and fix issues as needed ASAP. Also, this tenant just moved in 5 months and in the move in checklist, he stated everything is clean and good condition.
He just live 5 months and already has ~one complain every month. I feel like next month he might complain that some plants in the yard causing pollen and he has breathing problem. And need some kind of allergy report of my plants
- Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes12y
Yep. Mold spores are prevalent and can be found in every home no doubt. The EPA has a great booklet "A Brief Guide to MOLD, MOISTURE and YOUR HOME." Give a copy to every tenant when they move in and have them sign a form for "Disclosure of Information on Mold and Moisture Hazards" that shows you gave them this booklet. Keep this document forever in case a tenant tries to sue you in 30 years for a health problem they attribute to your unit.
The tenant needs to take an active role and understand their responsibilities for prevention, cleaning and reporting mold problems in a timely manner. Spell this out in your rental agreement. Do regular inspections to make sure a problem is not developing. Act quickly to mitigate damage and document well.
For cleaning common household mold and mildew, I use white vinegar on all porous surfaces, like wood and drywall. It kills the roots and gets rid of the musty smell. I routinely clean out cabinets under sinks with white vinegar....my plumber taught me this. Great for washing shower curtains too. Bleach can be used effectively on nonporous surfaces such as porcelain, but won't kill all the mold/mildew found on non-porous surfaces. If the mold or mildew is extensive and goes deep below the surface, replace the item.
- Killaloe, Ontario · Member since 2014 · 5 posts · 0 votes11y
If your tenants are genuine and if you think they just want the mold to be removed, then you have to take the responsibility of the mold removal. And ask the tenants to take necessary actions to stop the molds from reappearing.
Every year, I check into my rented-out place along with a professional team of Doctor Rooter. They inspect and fix all the mold and other home related problems and this brings a good relationship between the owners and the tenants.
- Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2013 · 115 posts · 76 votes11y
@Richard Vang how did this end up? I hope it went smoothly.
I had a tenant complain to my propert mgr about mold, and that she was having health issues. She was pregnant. She even said that her doctor confirmed that it was from black mold.
Luckily I have a great PM. They immediately called my insurance, who payed for an inspection. The inspector was skeptical. They found mold but it was around the vent. They put a humidity recorder in the attic by the vent for a few days without explaining to the tenant exactly how the instrument worked.
They found that the tenant was taking hot showers for over an hour at a time. Either they were romantic showers or they were trying to increase the mold on purpose. Probably the latter.
In the end it worked out in my favor because we were able to document the long showers, neighbors statements that the couple were getting a divorce. Husband lost his job, etc. they were trying to get out of the lease and milk us for payoff money. Turns out when we asked for a copy of the doctored note, it simply stated that a possible cause of her coughing could be black mold. It was very general. We just let them out of the lease, but kept deposit because of the repairs needed after they moved out.
I would be very careful to handle these kinds of situations professionally. It could mean the difference between a successful investing career and bankruptcy.
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