Investor · Madison, WI · Member since 2013 · 97 posts · 10 votes
Good Morning all!
I have a tenant that may be moving out in the next month or so. When she started renting the house, she installed new light fixtures with a ceiling fan in two of the bedrooms. It has been 2 years since she has installed them and wondering if should would want to uninstall them and take them with her, is that legal or would she have the right to do so? she paid for them out of her own pocket and never asked to be reimbursed, however, it is a part of the house now. what are your thoughts? Thanks for the feedback as I am trying to be proactive and get my "ducks in a row" in case this may be an issue coming up. Thanks!
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Our rental agreement covers this. We don't allow tenants to mess with the electrical or plumbing components of our properties. We will approve some modifications if we are consulted ahead of time. Fixtures that we approve stay with the property. We paid a tenant once to keep the light fixture that she bought and that we had installed.
I saw the coolest thing in Tokyo. Many homes do not include built-in ceiling lights in the living, dining, and bedrooms. Instead, they have ceiling receptacles that provide both electrical connection and mechanical support for lighting equipment. Tenants provide their own light fixtures that plug into them. When the tenant leaves they take their fixture with them. Wish we had that here!
Residential Real Estate Investor · Kansas City, MO · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 5k+ votes
12y
Did you give her permission to do that? If she paid for them they really are hers (just like say with appliances) and unless she threw away your old light fixtures, she should be able to keep them. Now the cost to reinstall the old fixtures or new ones should be charged to her out of her deposit.
Clayton, CA · Member since 2014 · 32 posts · 19 votes
12y
Did she have your permission to put them in originally? Did she use a pro to install them? Does she have the old fixtures still? Will she hire a licensed electrician to reinstall old fixtures back (so your house doesn't burn down when she does it improperly)?
If she's willing to hire someone to put the old fixtures back, why worry about it. Not worth your time, like you said, it was out of her pocket.
Now, if she doesn't have the old fixtures or doesn't want to hire someone to install them properly, different story all together.
Best of luck!
-David
ALTERATIONS AND REPAIRS. Except in the event of an emergency, no repairs, decorating or alterations shall be done by Tenant without Owner’s prior written consent. Tenant shall notify Owner in writing of any repairs or alterations contemplated. Tenant shall hold Owner harmless as to any mechanic’s lien recordation or proceeding caused by Tenant and Tenant agrees to indemnify Owner in the event of any claim or proceeding. Tenant agrees that all improvements installed in and on the Premises, including landscaping (bushes, shrubs, ground cover, trees, and flowers) shall, at the option of Owner remain with the Premises upon termination of the Lease at no cost to Owner .
You may have something like it in yours if not think about adding it.
Residential Real Estate Broker · Washington, DC · Member since 2014 · 27 posts · 16 votes
12y
You're right the 2 fans are a fixture of the property in the pure sense they are attached to the property, but with notification, she has the right to remove them and take them with her. Get ducks in a row by asking her intentions will help you both.
If she does take them, you may be able to deduct from sec. deposit for installation of replacement fixtures (but not the fixtures themselves) depending on local laws.
Also, feel free to negotiate if you want to keep them or if she decides she doesn't want them. Moving ceiling fans isn't a great way to keep them in workable shape. Tenants may be open to making their move-out easier especially if they get an extra few bucks in the process.
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Our rental agreement covers this. We don't allow tenants to mess with the electrical or plumbing components of our properties. We will approve some modifications if we are consulted ahead of time. Fixtures that we approve stay with the property. We paid a tenant once to keep the light fixture that she bought and that we had installed.
I saw the coolest thing in Tokyo. Many homes do not include built-in ceiling lights in the living, dining, and bedrooms. Instead, they have ceiling receptacles that provide both electrical connection and mechanical support for lighting equipment. Tenants provide their own light fixtures that plug into them. When the tenant leaves they take their fixture with them. Wish we had that here!
I have a tenant that may be moving out in the next month or so. When she started renting the house, she installed new light fixtures with a ceiling fan in two of the bedrooms. It has been 2 years since she has installed them and wondering if should would want to uninstall them and take them with her, is that legal or would she have the right to do so? she paid for them out of her own pocket and never asked to be reimbursed, however, it is a part of the house now. what are your thoughts? Thanks for the feedback as I am trying to be proactive and get my "ducks in a row" in case this may be an issue coming up. Thanks!
I'd think only you could make it an issue! Didn't read other posts, but frankly, the only way you could even be asking is by having an intent of trying to keep them! Do you steal the tips left on tables at a restaurant for your tipping, ? it's much like that.
Not only is going there predatory, making a claim that what she attached belongs to you, but plain unethical.
Yes, fixtures attached to RE is part of the RE, however, if a tenant buys a fixture, attaches it, they can also take it so long as they replace that fixture with the one previously attached.
If you were a tenant would you want your landlord to pull that on you, try telling you that you had to leave what you paid for? This is just obscene.
And a ceiling fan? You'll see they are replaced often and reserved often as personal property in listings.
Princeton, KS · Member since 2014 · 357 posts · 169 votes
12y
Legally (in this state), they're yours. Period. But if she's been a decent tenant, I'd let her have them back & only charge her a minimum amount to either replace the original fixtures or put in new inexpensive ones. There's nothing to be gained by pissing people off if you can avoid it.
Investor · Middletown, NJ · Member since 2008 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
We had tenants that asked if they could install a ceiling light/fan in a bedroom that had no ceiling lights. They agreed to pay for the fixture and for my contractor to install them. The fixture was theirs when they moved. Since they'd paid for the installation, the ceiling/electrical was ready for a new fixture that we bought to replace it and everyone was happy.
If you don't want to replace the ceiling fixture, you can buy one of those round "blanks" that simply cover the hole. But a ceiling fixture is something everyone likes, and buying a new one will make your future tenants happy.
@Marcia Maynard , that's an awesome feature in Tokyo, and it sounds simple enough to replicate here. A perfect solution.
Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
I've seen ceiling fans and lighting fixtures installed incorrectly by tenants. I've seen them literally yanked out by tenants too when they left. Some fixtures require additional structural support and getting into the electrical is a safety concern. Best to oversee both the installation and the disassembly.
If the tenant gave you an indication they will be moving soon, this is a good time to have a conversation with her about the whole move-out process. Find out if she is planning to take the fixtures with her or if she wants to leave them. If she plans to take them with her, offer to help her with the disassembly.
Sometimes a tenant will want to give you a lighting fixture and and sometimes they will want to sell it to you and sometimes they will want to keep it. Everything's negotiable. Talk with her now about it and you will avoid an awkward moment later.
Investor · Pawtucket, RI · Member since 2014 · 45 posts · 15 votes
12y
The simple way I handle it is by telling the tenant:
"Please install the original fixtures prior to vacating and you can take the ones you purchased. Please note if there is any damage from this transition your security deposit will be charged to offset repair costs. In addition, if no fixtures are left upon vacating unit your security deposit will be charged for the replacement of the same or similar quality product that was originally installed in the unit. I (as owner) will not be reimbursing you for the cost of said fixtures because replacement of such was not a matter of functionality in the unit but rather an aesthetic preference . Thank you and have a good day"
Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
12y
Bill is being harsh because the intent is clearly to keep the fans.
Last customer leaves a $5 bill for a tip. Next guy slides a napkin over it and hides it. They eat and leave the tip, it's a benefit to the customer in being perceived as having left a tip without leaving a dime.
A tenant buys a fan, the LL claims the fan, covering up his taking it with the justification that it's part of the RE. The LL then leases the property again, maybe raises the rents 10 bucks mentioning the new fans, but even if he doesn't, he is benefiting from the perception of his providing a nicer unit for lease.
Explain how that is so different.
There is a chance the tenant won't bother taking them down too, they could just leave them. I'd then wonder if a LL would still stick them with the full costs of cleaning up the place.
I'm glad to see the other ethical posts. There are those who think the only way to get ahead is to be predatory in every aspect of their dealings. if they can pinch the other guy for a quarter in a handshake they will, pitiful there are such folks, must be in their DNA......not saying the OP is at that extent but there absolutely are people like that in RE.
Investor · Madison, WI · Member since 2013 · 97 posts · 10 votes
12y
wow, thanks for all the comments and feedback! What a great resource this is for someone to ask a simple question, and get great advice and ideas. Thanks again!!
This is an old post but for the record... Seems far to many personal opinions on this issue yet not what is legal. This is considered an improvement to the rental property. It is illegal for the renter to remove any improvements. An exception might be that a renter asked Landlord if they can install with the understanding they intended to remove and return to original state. From a legal standpoint any improvement by the renter has to stay and if improvement is removed the Landlord can charge the Tenant for removing the item that tenant installed and later removed. This is law!