CLEVELAND EVICTION ENDS IN A DEADLY SHOOTOUT
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
For those that think investing in the Ghetto really is not as dangerous as they say please take a look at this video. We actually know these particular bailiffs. They have done several evictions for us & have told us about this encounter before. This happened last year but the video was just released yesterday.
This is why there are certain areas of the city that we will just not touch. We get calls from investors all the time asking us to manage their properties in these areas or asking us if we can help them build a portfolio of 10k houses. They are usually offended when we tell them no but we have good reason not to mess with these areas.
I cannot say that I am surprised by this video. Recently I wrote a blog grading the different neighborhoods in Cleveland. READ BLOG HERE The area (44108) that this apartment building was in got a big fat F on my Blog.
Will he be getting his security deposit back?
I was afraid this is how your eviction ended @James Wise ! The one where the one evicted tenant moved into the other soon-to-be evicted tenants apt. Whew! That one went without a hitch? Any 'sweet' details?
Sooooo the tenant thought attempted murder would solve his problems...
Guarantees them free accommodation & 3 meals a day ????
WOW! Crazy... In Chicago its the Sheriff. and they show up like 4-5 deep an full armor like storm troopers.
Thanks for sharing. I am not sure this is a norm in that area as the commentary clearly said it was one in 35 years. That said, for me, I will rather avoid the high headache value of C- & D Class neighborhoods, regardless of the low cost entry point.
I only wonder why the prosecutor took so much time to rule the use of force to be justified. One 5 minute look at that video clip should have sufficed.
James, looks like you might have discovered another stream of income, albeit not 100% legal - just get a truck and follow the eviction crew :)
I was afraid this is how your eviction ended @James Wise ! The one where the one evicted tenant moved into the other soon-to-be evicted tenants apt. Whew! That one went without a hitch? Any 'sweet' details?
No thankfully our eviction did not end like this. We actually ended up with a new HWPG office pet.
@Ben Leybovich Long Island is also pretty landlord unfriendly. When you evict someone, which takes up around 6 months, the landlord must pay for a moving company to put the tenants belonging in a storage facility, then, the landlord must pay for the storage place for I believe at least two months!
"At the time of the evictions, the landlord will be required to provide all necessary manpower and materials to complete the eviction as expeditiously as possible. The personal property of the tenant must be moved to a place where the tenant can recover it without unreasonable difficulty. This requires the landlord/ attorney to provide a minimum of four people to do the moving. All expenses will be incurred by the landlord. The landlord assumes any responsibility for damage to the property during the moving/ storage of the property. The landlord may not break into the dwelling, may not move a tenant’s belongings out and may not turn off the heat and utilities. The sheriff is the only person who may remove property from the premises and this can be done only after the landlord has been awarded a warrant and their personal property must be physically removed from the premises described in the warrant. There is no “lockout”. The landlord (at his expense) must provide proper moving & storage, off site, by and insured, competent mover. The removed goods must be stored in a secure storage within the county."
well.......I can mark Long Island off of the lists of places to invest!
This is exactly why I am 100% behind using a PM, though I cant blame any PM's for not wanting to take on rentals in these areas. Its only 10% of my rent per month but to me its fantastic insurance and someone else to do the work for me and deal with these situations.
I had a friend I used to work with, she bought the house down the street and renovated it, luckily for her she had a PM. She came home one day and there were cop cars and police tape everywhere. She found out that the tenant had committed suicide by shooting himself in the living room. It shook her up a little, but the PM dealt with everything, getting the house cleaned, police paperwork etc. She never had to see any of it, and I think thats the only reason she opted to keep the house and was able to deal with it emotionally.
Whitney,
I would argue that these horror stories are the exception not the rule. They make for good entertainment. Its not entertaining to talk about all of the folks who take care of your property and pay on time.
I prefer to self manage. Nobody cares for your property like you do!
@Ben Leybovich Long Island is also pretty landlord unfriendly. When you evict someone, which takes up around 6 months, the landlord must pay for a moving company to put the tenants belonging in a storage facility, then, the landlord must pay for the storage place for I believe at least two months!
"At the time of the evictions, the landlord will be required to provide all necessary manpower and materials to complete the eviction as expeditiously as possible. The personal property of the tenant must be moved to a place where the tenant can recover it without unreasonable difficulty. This requires the landlord/ attorney to provide a minimum of four people to do the moving. All expenses will be incurred by the landlord. The landlord assumes any responsibility for damage to the property during the moving/ storage of the property. The landlord may not break into the dwelling, may not move a tenant’s belongings out and may not turn off the heat and utilities. The sheriff is the only person who may remove property from the premises and this can be done only after the landlord has been awarded a warrant and their personal property must be physically removed from the premises described in the warrant. There is no “lockout”. The landlord (at his expense) must provide proper moving & storage, off site, by and insured, competent mover. The removed goods must be stored in a secure storage within the county."
This sounds worse than it really is. Cleveland is pretty similar.
The process is as follows.
On move out day you go to the house with the Bailiffs, Court approved movers & your locksmith. The Bailiffs will not enter the home if the court approved movers are not present. The landlord &/or his employees are not allowed to do the move out, it must be performed by the court approved movers. Unfortunately if the people are gone & the home is empty you will still need to pay the movers a fee to show up to the home. Their time, just like any one else's time is not free. Their trucks don't run off of hugs & kisses.
Locksmith changes the locks then the movers move everything to the curb. Anything left on the curb must be picked up by the landlord at 5pm. If everything is left on the curb after 5pm the landlord will be cited with a city violation. Items picked up after 5pm need to be stored for 30 days.
Usually there is nothing other than trash left on the curb by the time 5pm hits. So storing things rarely happens. Either the tenant comes and takes their belongings or the people that follow the bailiffs around all day steal it.
To date I have only had to store a few tenants belongings for 30 days. Nobody has ever contacted us later to try & retrieve their belongins. We have warehouse & garage space all over town so storing the stuff has never been a big deal to us.
I'm all for glass half full mentality, but even what you described sounds like a huge hassle. So if the reality is somewhere in between what you described and that text above, the reality is pretty bad.
I find it hard to believe that landlords can't stand up for themselves and are always getting walked on. Another hat I wear being a physician, which are just as horrible at standing up for their rights from a political standpoint. Want to work more hours for less pay? Sure! How about much higher med school debt? Sure! What about less respect from society? Sure! If only landlords and physicians were as good at protecting their rights and bottom lines as nurses or the union! :) Okay I am done ranting.
As explicitly stated in the Hawaii landlord-tenant handbook, (paraphrasing) "The rent is is considered late any time after its due, and the landlord may place a notice to evict..."
@Ben Leybovich Long Island is also pretty landlord unfriendly. When you evict someone, which takes up around 6 months, the landlord must pay for a moving company to put the tenants belonging in a storage facility, then, the landlord must pay for the storage place for I believe at least two months!
"At the time of the evictions, the landlord will be required to provide all necessary manpower and materials to complete the eviction as expeditiously as possible. The personal property of the tenant must be moved to a place where the tenant can recover it without unreasonable difficulty. This requires the landlord/ attorney to provide a minimum of four people to do the moving. All expenses will be incurred by the landlord. The landlord assumes any responsibility for damage to the property during the moving/ storage of the property. The landlord may not break into the dwelling, may not move a tenant’s belongings out and may not turn off the heat and utilities. The sheriff is the only person who may remove property from the premises and this can be done only after the landlord has been awarded a warrant and their personal property must be physically removed from the premises described in the warrant. There is no “lockout”. The landlord (at his expense) must provide proper moving & storage, off site, by and insured, competent mover. The removed goods must be stored in a secure storage within the county."
This sounds worse than it really is. Cleveland is pretty similar.
The process is as follows.
On move out day you go to the house with the Bailiffs, Court approved movers & your locksmith. The Bailiffs will not enter the home if the court approved movers are not present. The landlord &/or his employees are not allowed to do the move out, it must be performed by the court approved movers. Unfortunately if the people are gone & the home is empty you will still need to pay the movers a fee to show up to the home. Their time, just like any one else's time is not free. Their trucks don't run off of hugs & kisses.
Locksmith changes the locks then the movers move everything to the curb. Anything left on the curb must be picked up by the landlord at 5pm. If everything is left on the curb after 5pm the landlord will be cited with a city violation. Items picked up after 5pm need to be stored for 30 days.
Usually there is nothing other than trash left on the curb by the time 5pm hits. So storing things rarely happens. Either the tenant comes and takes their belongings or the people that follow the bailiffs around all day steal it.
To date I have only had to store a few tenants belongings for 30 days. Nobody has ever contacted us later to try & retrieve their belongins. We have warehouse & garage space all over town so storing the stuff has never been a big deal to us.
I'm all for glass half full mentality, but even what you described sounds like a huge hassle. So if the reality is somewhere in between what you described and that text above, the reality is pretty bad.
I find it hard to believe that landlords can't stand up for themselves and are always getting walked on. Another hat I wear being a physician, which are just as horrible at standing up for their rights from a political standpoint. Want to work more hours for less pay? Sure! How about much higher med school debt? Sure! What about less respect from society? Sure! If only landlords and physicians were as good at protecting their rights and bottom lines as nurses or the union! :) Okay I am done ranting.
As explicitly stated in the Hawaii landlord-tenant handbook, (paraphrasing) "The rent is is considered late any time after its due, and the landlord may place a notice to evict..."
You can place the notice to evict as soon as the rent is late here as well. I would imagine in Hawaii you still need to move their stuff out of the home as well. Think about it, how could it be any other way? Who's going to move it out? The tenant? Of course not. If they were willing to move it out themselves you would not be there with the Bailiffs.
Then there is the issue of storing it. City cannot let you leave it on the tree lawn & trash up the neighborhood. It is easier to track down the owner of the home than it is to track down the tenant. They can always find out who owns the home, not always able to find out who the tenant is. I have evicted several "John Doe"s"
Storing the things would probably be my biggest objection. There really is no logical reason why the landlord should have to store the tenants items as opposed to getting rid of them or keeping them to try and recover losses that they incurred during the eviction process. However the bleeding heart politicians who made the landlord tenant laws think otherwise. It is what it is. As I stated earlier it really is not too big of a pain if you set yourself up with some storage space around town.
@Ben Leybovich Long Island is also pretty landlord unfriendly. When you evict someone, which takes up around 6 months, the landlord must pay for a moving company to put the tenants belonging in a storage facility, then, the landlord must pay for the storage place for I believe at least two months!
"At the time of the evictions, the landlord will be required to provide all necessary manpower and materials to complete the eviction as expeditiously as possible. The personal property of the tenant must be moved to a place where the tenant can recover it without unreasonable difficulty. This requires the landlord/ attorney to provide a minimum of four people to do the moving. All expenses will be incurred by the landlord. The landlord assumes any responsibility for damage to the property during the moving/ storage of the property. The landlord may not break into the dwelling, may not move a tenant’s belongings out and may not turn off the heat and utilities. The sheriff is the only person who may remove property from the premises and this can be done only after the landlord has been awarded a warrant and their personal property must be physically removed from the premises described in the warrant. There is no “lockout”. The landlord (at his expense) must provide proper moving & storage, off site, by and insured, competent mover. The removed goods must be stored in a secure storage within the county."
This sounds worse than it really is. Cleveland is pretty similar.
The process is as follows.
On move out day you go to the house with the Bailiffs, Court approved movers & your locksmith. The Bailiffs will not enter the home if the court approved movers are not present. The landlord &/or his employees are not allowed to do the move out, it must be performed by the court approved movers. Unfortunately if the people are gone & the home is empty you will still need to pay the movers a fee to show up to the home. Their time, just like any one else's time is not free. Their trucks don't run off of hugs & kisses.
Locksmith changes the locks then the movers move everything to the curb. Anything left on the curb must be picked up by the landlord at 5pm. If everything is left on the curb after 5pm the landlord will be cited with a city violation. Items picked up after 5pm need to be stored for 30 days.
Usually there is nothing other than trash left on the curb by the time 5pm hits. So storing things rarely happens. Either the tenant comes and takes their belongings or the people that follow the bailiffs around all day steal it.
To date I have only had to store a few tenants belongings for 30 days. Nobody has ever contacted us later to try & retrieve their belongins. We have warehouse & garage space all over town so storing the stuff has never been a big deal to us.
I'm all for glass half full mentality, but even what you described sounds like a huge hassle. So if the reality is somewhere in between what you described and that text above, the reality is pretty bad.
I find it hard to believe that landlords can't stand up for themselves and are always getting walked on. Another hat I wear being a physician, which are just as horrible at standing up for their rights from a political standpoint. Want to work more hours for less pay? Sure! How about much higher med school debt? Sure! What about less respect from society? Sure! If only landlords and physicians were as good at protecting their rights and bottom lines as nurses or the union! :) Okay I am done ranting.
As explicitly stated in the Hawaii landlord-tenant handbook, (paraphrasing) "The rent is is considered late any time after its due, and the landlord may place a notice to evict..."
You can place the notice to evict as soon as the rent is late here as well. I would imagine in Hawaii you still need to move their stuff out of the home as well. Think about it, how could it be any other way? Who's going to move it out? The tenant? Of course not. If they were willing to move it out themselves you would not be there with the Bailiffs.
Then there is the issue of storing it. City cannot let you leave it on the tree lawn & trash up the neighborhood. It is easier to track down the owner of the home than it is to track down the tenant. They can always find out who owns the home, not always able to find out who the tenant is. I have evicted several "John Doe"s"
Storing the things would probably be my biggest objection. There really is no logical reason why the landlord should have to store the tenants items as opposed to getting rid of them or keeping them to try and recover losses that they incurred during the eviction process. However the bleeding heart politicians who made the landlord tenant laws think otherwise. It is what it is. As I stated earlier it really is not too big of a pain if you set yourself up with some storage space around town.
That's incorrect. We arent required to move their stuff out. Neither are the rest of those other steps. Ask @Bob Bowling. I think he recently did his first eviction in decades. Notice to quit, court date within 10 days, I gave the paper to the tenant, and the cop that came told the lady she needed to be out that day. I think it was less than 2 weeks from the time rent was late. There is no moving their stuff. He can chime in to confirm.
That's incorrect. We arent required to move their stuff out. Neither are the rest of those other steps. Ask @Bob Bowling. I think he recently did his first eviction in decades. Notice to quit, court date within 10 days, I gave the paper to the tenant, and the cop that came told the lady she needed to be out that day. I think it was less than 2 weeks from the time rent was late. There is no moving their stuff. He can chime in to confirm.
Ok so what happens when you get to the house it is full of her things & she is not there? Are you allowed to change the locks & keep all of her belongings?
James, the tenant needs to be out the day the writ is served. Its not the landlord's responsibility to move their stuff, its the tenant's. At the tenant's expense. Tenant owns the stuff, and didnt pay rent per CONTRACT THEY SIGNED. Sounds more logical that way, right.
James, the tenant needs to be out the day the writ is served. Its not the landlord's responsibility to move their stuff, its the tenant's. At the tenant's expense. Tenant owns the stuff, and didnt pay rent per CONTRACT THEY SIGNED. Sounds more logical that way, right.
I understand that they are SUPPOSED to be out. They were also SUPPOSED to pay their rent which they did not. A signed contract is a piece of paper. The contract is not going to carry the couch outside.
So again what happens when you show up to the home the day that the tenant was supposed to be out & they are not home & all of their belongings are still inside?
Who is going to have to move the belongings out? I do not know the state laws of Hawaii but I would be pretty shocked if they let you change the locks & keep all of the tenants belongings.
That's incorrect. We arent required to move their stuff out. Neither are the rest of those other steps. Ask @Bob Bowling. I think he recently did his first eviction in decades. Notice to quit, court date within 10 days, I gave the paper to the tenant, and the cop that came told the lady she needed to be out that day. I think it was less than 2 weeks from the time rent was late. There is no moving their stuff. He can chime in to confirm.
Dang Andrey, you're airing my dirty laundry! I am a little embarrassed that my almost 40 year record of no evictions has ended and it is totally MY fault! I relied on a friend of a friend recommendation/connection and frankly now that I am retired I'm just a little bit lazy :-0 !
So now as the Honolulu eviction whisperer I'll share my story. My tenants were 8 months into their one year lease and they bounced a rent check. They both had paycheck jobs and a side business with a web site/Facebook presence and all. First it was a bank mistake and then it was money on Friday then maybe next Wednesday. I explained how that would not work for me and even offered to take partial rent. As long as they're paid up currently (not the month in advance) I'm fine as long as I have the deposit. Blah blah blah told them I had to give notice until they performed.
I was off island so I emailed/texted/mailed and had my on island rep tape a copy of the 5 day pay or quit on the door. I was due in town but I called my attorney that spanked this buildings association for $10,000 for me. They told me that they had to give 30 day notice since they were considered a debt collector, etc. The $3,000 retainer contract was in the mail the next day! As I stated above I'm lazy but also cheap so I said "Frack that!" and went down to the court house. $155 to file and I have to get them served. My buddy in the building next door is in Palm Springs for the winter and my tenants have erratic schedules. They made the mistake of making up a repair complaint to not pay so I gave notice to be in the unit when they were there. I showed up to confirm they are there, excuse myself to get my sledge hammer, run over to the nearest bar and say "hey buddy, wanna help out an old man for ten minutes for $40?" (don't do this too often or you'll get a reputation). So in I walk with my buddy who serves the papers. The papers have a court date on them that was about 3 days later.
Tenant shows up in court and complains about me and judge sets a court date about a month later. I ask if I'm getting my writ of possession and he says yes. I have to wait couple of days for it to be signed. I have the writ giving me immediate possession but it has to be served by a third party. I called the court appointed servers and they want $1,000 and will serve the writ in a few days and give the tenant a couple of days to move and then they will come back and change the locks. Frack that!
My new BP buddy is going to meet me for the first time at my unit next door to this and I barter installing a disposal for him serving my tenant. Tenant comes home and BANG, yer served. I offered them thirty minutes to remove their possessions. Tenant gets all up in my grill and my BP buddy disappears. ;-( I stay calm and figger I can take her if it comes to that (I am a biter). So the tenants call the POLICE. The initial reaction is that I am the perp and I need the sheriffs to do this dirty work. I had already checked this out with the court and was instructed to call the police if needed. They can't believe I expect the tenants out in 30 minutes.
Meanwhile police backup is on the way. Driveways are blocked and the building is buzzing. I stay calm and just present my copy of the writ and agree to do whatever the police want as it is up to the judge to punish those "officers of the court" that refuse to comply with his order. I believe the order actually compels the officers to remove their belongings. Ain't no cop gonna do that as long as their are able bodied tenants.
I use my ace in the hole, Scruffy the wonder dog. and now I'm the sympathetic party. One of the tenants bosses show up and they are a mucky muck at Pearl Harbor so the police negotiate a $3,000 check to me from her to give them a few weeks time. I am upset that these people lied to me and tried to cheat me so I really do want them out NOW. I still have the deposit and I'd chase them down at their work if it meant I'd only get fifty cents a week. Calmer heads prevailed and I had made my point. So with check in hand I go downstairs to the 4 police cars and the Captain is asking me how much this eviction costs since his buddy is spending bucks trying to do the same thing on a rental out in Hawaii Kai. $155 to court, $40 to my bar buddy and the promise of a disposal installation to my BP buddy.
Check is cashed. Preliminary walk thru and when I arrive two police officers are there at the tenants request to try to make me look bad. Place looks OK. After tenant is gone we have a preliminary court date. I'm paid up and have possession of my property AND I have the months deposit. Tenant continues to bash me and I mention my expenses could probably be over the deposit and offer to walk with that amount. Tenant agrees as she sees the writing on the wall. I re rent immediately for $150 more a month.
Is Hawaii landlord friendly? I think the better question is what is the ratio of evictions to units. I would say in both Hawaii and California that ratio is low due to the rental demand.
Most laws against landlords seem to be against bad/ignorant landlords. Just don't be one of those.
Scruffy the Wonder Dog and sidekick Monk Seal.
I think what all of that is trying to say is that the cop/tenant/cop forcing tenant is the way to remove the tenant's stuff, James. Makes zero logical sense that the landlord should be held responsible.
I think I was intending it to be a complement on the 1 eviction per 40 years ;)
@Andrey Y. @Account Closed
It sounds as though Hawaii is very Landlord friendly. Your turn around time from the notice to vacate to the writ of restitution is incredibly fast.
This is exactly why I am 100% behind using a PM, though I cant blame any PM's for not wanting to take on rentals in these areas. Its only 10% of my rent per month but to me its fantastic insurance and someone else to do the work for me and deal with these situations.
I had a friend I used to work with, she bought the house down the street and renovated it, luckily for her she had a PM. She came home one day and there were cop cars and police tape everywhere. She found out that the tenant had committed suicide by shooting himself in the living room. It shook her up a little, but the PM dealt with everything, getting the house cleaned, police paperwork etc. She never had to see any of it, and I think thats the only reason she opted to keep the house and was able to deal with it emotionally.
Whitney,
I would argue that these horror stories are the exception not the rule. They make for good entertainment. Its not entertaining to talk about all of the folks who take care of your property and pay on time.
I prefer to self manage. Nobody cares for your property like you do!
-----------------------
Getting hit by a semi truck who then flees the scene is also the exception but not the rule, but still last year a semi truck totaled my car and kept driving. Thats why I have insurance, because without it I would be SOl, but because I had it, I got a settlement to pay for a new car. I learned a long time ago that I am no exception to the rules. Anything can happen to any of us, it comes down more to chance than anything else, and there are certain things we can do to lessen the chances that something happens.
As far as talking about the folks who take good care of my house, I have made several posts about having good tenants in my rental. But I grew up seeing more than one bad renter that my mom had to deal with. I have friends and co workers who have dealt with nightmare situations as well. I know these things do happen, and often more than we like to think.
As I said in my other post in this thread, some people make great landlords and can handle this just fine, thats great for them, I never said everyone has to have a PM. Personally, I cannot and do not want to handle a trouble tenant or have to go through any of the things I have seen others go through with trouble renters, and I know if it happened to someone else it could happen to me. I dont regret having to pay a PM, even if nothing happens, because I will regret not having one if something does.
As far as who cares for the property best, I would definitely call your statement debatable. There are many great PMs out there who know what they are doing far better than the property owner and will take better care than the owner, partially because the owner doesnt know better, partially because owners tend to be more sympathetic than a PM. I know a dependable PM would get a tenant out ASAP if they werent paying rent or causing trouble where as an owner could easily let things go for longer because they dont know the steps or feel bad. Yes there are owners who can be great landlords and take care of their house, but I dont agree that every owner is going to do a better job than a PM