CLEVELAND EVICTION ENDS IN A DEADLY SHOOTOUT

General Landlording & Rental Properties
11yFollow

CLEVELAND EVICTION ENDS IN A DEADLY SHOOTOUT

James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes

For those that think investing in the Ghetto really is not as dangerous as they say please take a look at this video. We actually know these particular bailiffs. They have done several evictions for us & have told us about this encounter before. This happened last year but the video was just released yesterday.

WATCH THE SHOOTOUT

This is why there are certain areas of the city that we will just not touch. We get calls from investors all the time asking us to manage their properties in these areas or asking us if we can help them build a portfolio of 10k houses. They are usually offended when we tell them no but we have good reason not to mess with these areas.

 I cannot say that I am surprised by this video. Recently I wrote a blog grading the different neighborhoods in Cleveland. READ BLOG HERE The area (44108) that this apartment building was in got a big fat F on my Blog.

5Reply
107 views

Most Popular Reply

Mike F.
Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 570 posts · 521 votes
11y

Will he be getting his security deposit back?

7Reply
See this reply in the discussion

45 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Roy N.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    Wow ... just across the lake, but sometimes it's like a whole other world down there.   

    Here bailiffs and sheriffs are not armed, or at most carry batons and pepper spray when transporting prisoners. 

    1Reply
  • Dooreuhn Cee
    Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 229 posts · 171 votes
    11y

    Sooooo the tenant thought attempted murder would solve his problems... 

    2Reply
  • James Wise
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y

    @Roy N. 

    The suburban bailiffs don't carry weapons either. When doing a Parma eviction the bailiff shows up alone wearing a suit.

    0Reply
  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    7 months? How did the guy get away with not paying rent for 7 months?

    Podcast Guest on Show #29
    1Reply
  • Mike F.
    Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 570 posts · 521 votes
    11y

    Will he be getting his security deposit back?

    7Reply
  • James Wise
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Dawn Anastasi:

    7 months? How did the guy get away with not paying rent for 7 months?

     I see cases like this all the time in court. Landlords go up to the front & the judge asks the landlord's when the last time rent was paid. 3, 4, 5 even 6 months ago. I see it at least once everytime I am down there. For some reason people are affraid to take it all the way to court & or they are just pushovers.

    This case is odd though as it is small mom & pop landlords normally doing letting tenants go for so long without payment. This building was a huge complex though. Presumably not a mom & pop operation so I am not sure how this guy made it through the cracks so long.

    0Reply
  • John T.
    Dayton, OH · Member since 2014 · 52 posts · 5 votes
    11y

    Ill have to add a bullet proof vest with my dust masks and goggles in the safety bin

    0Reply
  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    11y

    I find it amazing that they let bailiffs conduct these evictions.

    Here in GA it's the Marshalls office and they are fully armed police with vests. They are some big boys too you do not want to mess with.

    One time I was at  parade at Atlanta on the sidewalk. Here comes patrol person in all black walking down the sidewalk. The guy is about 6 foot 7. Fully loaded and on the back side between his shoulders has a machine gun.

    You do not mess with the police in this state. The criminals know which higher end areas to stay out of or the police will have their butt on a platter.  

    Podcast Guest on Show #47
    NNN Invest53 Reviews
    WebsiteView Page
    0Reply
  • Stephen Masek
    Investor · Mission Viejo, CA · Member since 2012 · 627 posts · 204 votes
    11y

    Thankfully the court employees were OK. 

    In the City of Los Angeles, a taxpayer funded tenants right group (yes, taxpayer funded...) is demanding jury trials for evictions!  The state is so poor due to government worker pensions and healthcare that court capacity has been cut way back.  The result is many months of free rent before getting them out.  Of course, I have no idea why the owners do not sell, especially with even B and C stuff going for $250,000 per door. 

    2Reply
  • Zoran M.
    Real Estate Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2013 · 301 posts · 112 votes
    11y
    Crazy. That's a senior housing building owned by Millenia Companies - they're pretty big. Also, that's the neighborhood where Bone Thugs & Harmony are from. Pride of Cleveland! Can't say it's all that bad considering :-) hahaha I listen to First of The Month every time rent rolls in :-)
    4Reply
  • Rick Baggenstoss
    Developer · Decatur, GA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    I think this is an isolated incident.  The public figure said, 'first time in 35 years anything like this has happened."  In Cleveland, I imagine there have been 10's of thousands of evictions in 35 years.  

    I'm not sure I'd conclude low income housing is too dangerous for investors.  

    Is it more dangerous to drive your car or to own low income property?  Go to school or low income property?  Crazy people are everywhere.  I'm afraid you can find them at all levels of investing/life.  

    Also note, the landlord wasn't doing the eviction. 

    Having said that, I wouldn't want to own a unit in that building, but I would like to own the building!

    Rick

    4Reply
  • Patrick L.
    Real Estate Investor · Saint Petersburg, FL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 951 votes
    11y

    This can happen anywhere, people can be crazy.  I've seen news stories where the owner of a $200k house got into a shoot out over being removed from his house after a foreclosure.   To met that looks like an isolated incident, not the product of a bad neighborhood.  It's not like there was a gang or drug dealers in a run down house shooting out the windows at everyone, it's just one crazy guy who ended up shooting himself in the end so I don't think it's a neighborhood issue.  

    To me the real failure here is the City of Cleveland using loosely trained bailiffs rather than properly trained and equipped law enforcement officers.  Here the county Sheriff's deputies handle the lockouts.  

    1Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    Thanks for posting this, @James Wise !  How long does it take to evict in this county.  I know Akron is potentially the most investor unfriendly town.  Cinci is pretty bad as well.  Is Cleveland bad in this way?  Why did it take 7 months?

    1Reply
  • James Wise
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:

    Thanks for posting this, @James Wise !  How long does it take to evict in this county.  I know Akron is potentially the most investor unfriendly town.  Cinci is pretty bad as well.  Is Cleveland bad in this way?  Why did it take 7 months?

     Not sure about the back story to why this guy's eviction took 7 months but Cleveland's process is pretty landlord friendly in my book.

    Typically we serve the 3-day on the 10th, file on the 15th. End up in court towards the end of the following month. Get the writ of restitution 7 days later. (10 days if there's children or seniors involved)

    0Reply
  • James Wise
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y

    I have never done anything in Akron so I am not sure how it works over there.

    0Reply
  • Ryan Thomas
    Investor · ST. Augustine, FL · Member since 2013 · 92 posts · 31 votes
    11y

    @Ben Leybovich Long Island is also pretty landlord unfriendly. When you evict someone, which takes up around 6 months, the landlord must pay for a moving company to put the tenants belonging in a storage facility, then, the landlord must pay for the storage place for I believe at least two months!

    "At the time of the  evictions, the landlord will be required to provide all necessary manpower and  materials to complete the eviction as expeditiously as possible.  The personal  property of the tenant must be moved to a place where the tenant can recover it  without unreasonable difficulty.  This requires the landlord/ attorney to  provide a minimum of four people to do the moving.  All expenses will be  incurred by the landlord.  The landlord assumes any responsibility for damage to  the property during the moving/ storage of the property.  The landlord may not  break into the dwelling, may not move a tenant’s belongings out and may not turn  off the heat and utilities.  The sheriff is the only person who may remove  property from the premises and this can be done only after the landlord has been  awarded a warrant and their personal property must be physically removed from  the premises described in the warrant.  There is no “lockout”.  The landlord (at  his expense) must provide proper moving & storage, off site, by and insured,  competent mover.  The removed goods must be stored in a secure storage within  the county."

    1Reply
  • Ben Leybovich
    Rental Property Investor · Phoenix/Lima, Arizona/OH · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    That's just ****ed up!!!!!!

    1Reply
  • Jordan Thibodeau
    Rental Property Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2013 · 486 posts · 170 votes
    11y

    Terrible. I'm glad the bailiffs made it out OK. He hasn't paid rent in 7 months? I can see why.

    0Reply
  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Ryan Thomas:

    @Ben Leybovich Long Island is also pretty landlord unfriendly. When you evict someone, which takes up around 6 months, the landlord must pay for a moving company to put the tenants belonging in a storage facility, then, the landlord must pay for the storage place for I believe at least two months!

    "At the time of the  evictions, the landlord will be required to provide all necessary manpower and  materials to complete the eviction as expeditiously as possible.  The personal  property of the tenant must be moved to a place where the tenant can recover it  without unreasonable difficulty.  This requires the landlord/ attorney to  provide a minimum of four people to do the moving.  All expenses will be  incurred by the landlord.  The landlord assumes any responsibility for damage to  the property during the moving/ storage of the property.  The landlord may not  break into the dwelling, may not move a tenant’s belongings out and may not turn  off the heat and utilities.  The sheriff is the only person who may remove  property from the premises and this can be done only after the landlord has been  awarded a warrant and their personal property must be physically removed from  the premises described in the warrant.  There is no “lockout”.  The landlord (at  his expense) must provide proper moving & storage, off site, by and insured,  competent mover.  The removed goods must be stored in a secure storage within  the county."

     This is a good reason NOT to buy in certain areas. It is pretty sad how they can legislate away a landlords rights. As far as security, that should always be paramount in any situation.

    0Reply
  • Chad U.
    Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Ben Leybovich:

    Thanks for posting this, @James Wise !  How long does it take to evict in this county.  I know Akron is potentially the most investor unfriendly town.  Cinci is pretty bad as well.  Is Cleveland bad in this way?  Why did it take 7 months?

     Hi Ben, why do you say Akron is potentially the worst.  This may seem like a silly question, but aren't Landlord Tenant Laws governed at the state level, so each city should have a uniform eviction process that follows the state code?  Or is your experience different in that each municipality institutes their own rules?  

    0Reply
  • Lee I.
    Real Estate Professional · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 55 posts · 20 votes
    11y

    Crazy stuff.  Was his motivation known?  Drugs or something else in the apartment?  Thought they were coming to arrest him for some crime?

    0Reply
  • Whitney D.
    Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 20 posts · 19 votes
    11y

    This is exactly why I am 100% behind using a PM, though I cant blame any PM's for not wanting to take on rentals in these areas. Its only 10% of my rent per month but to me its fantastic insurance and someone else to do the work for me and deal with these situations.

    I had a friend I used to work with, she bought the house down the street and renovated it, luckily for her she had a PM. She came home one day and there were cop cars and police tape everywhere. She found out that the tenant had committed suicide by shooting himself in the living room. It shook her up a little, but the PM dealt with everything, getting the house cleaned, police paperwork etc. She never had to see any of it, and I think thats the only reason she opted to keep the house and was able to deal with it emotionally.

    0Reply
  • James Wise
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Whitney D.:

    This is exactly why I am 100% behind using a PM, though I cant blame any PM's for not wanting to take on rentals in these areas. Its only 10% of my rent per month but to me its fantastic insurance and someone else to do the work for me and deal with these situations.

     Many investors think this way when looking at really cheap property in bad areas. The thought process is  "It does not matter how bad the area is the PM will take care of all the garbage & it will only cost me 10% of the rent."

    THEN REALITY HITS

    Most PM's will not work bad areas. Those that are willing to work ghetto's are going charge A LOT more than a measly 10% of rents. 

    If somebody thinks a PM is willing to deal with that garbage for them for $40 per unit they are going to get hit with a tough reality check.

    3Reply
  • James Wise
    OP
    Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Ryan Thomas:

    @Ben Leybovich Long Island is also pretty landlord unfriendly. When you evict someone, which takes up around 6 months, the landlord must pay for a moving company to put the tenants belonging in a storage facility, then, the landlord must pay for the storage place for I believe at least two months!

    "At the time of the  evictions, the landlord will be required to provide all necessary manpower and  materials to complete the eviction as expeditiously as possible.  The personal  property of the tenant must be moved to a place where the tenant can recover it  without unreasonable difficulty.  This requires the landlord/ attorney to  provide a minimum of four people to do the moving.  All expenses will be  incurred by the landlord.  The landlord assumes any responsibility for damage to  the property during the moving/ storage of the property.  The landlord may not  break into the dwelling, may not move a tenant’s belongings out and may not turn  off the heat and utilities.  The sheriff is the only person who may remove  property from the premises and this can be done only after the landlord has been  awarded a warrant and their personal property must be physically removed from  the premises described in the warrant.  There is no “lockout”.  The landlord (at  his expense) must provide proper moving & storage, off site, by and insured,  competent mover.  The removed goods must be stored in a secure storage within  the county."

    This sounds worse than it really is. Cleveland is pretty similar.

    The process is as follows.

    On move out day you go to the house with the Bailiffs, Court approved movers & your locksmith. The Bailiffs will not enter the home if the court approved movers are not present. The landlord &/or his employees are not allowed to do the move out, it must be performed by the court approved movers. Unfortunately if the people are gone & the home is empty you will still need to pay the movers a fee to show up to the home. Their time, just like any one else's time is not free. Their trucks don't run off of hugs & kisses.

     Locksmith changes the locks then the movers move everything to the curb. Anything left on the curb must be picked up by the landlord at 5pm. If everything is left on the curb after 5pm the landlord will be cited with a city violation. Items picked up after 5pm need to be stored for 30 days.

    Usually there is nothing other than trash left on the curb by the time 5pm hits. So storing things rarely happens. Either the tenant comes and takes their belongings or the people that follow the bailiffs around all day steal it.

    To date I have only had to store a few tenants belongings for 30 days. Nobody has ever contacted us later to try & retrieve their belongins. We have warehouse & garage space all over town so storing the stuff has never been a big deal to us.

    0Reply
  • Whitney D.
    Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 20 posts · 19 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @James Wise:
    Originally posted by @Whitney D.:

    This is exactly why I am 100% behind using a PM, though I cant blame any PM's for not wanting to take on rentals in these areas. Its only 10% of my rent per month but to me its fantastic insurance and someone else to do the work for me and deal with these situations.

     Many investors think this way when looking at really cheap property in bad areas. The thought process is  "It does not matter how bad the area is the PM will take care of all the garbage & it will only cost me 10% of the rent."

    THEN REALITY HITS

    Most PM's will not work bad areas. Those that are willing to work ghetto's are going charge A LOT more than a measly 10% of rents. 

    If somebody thinks a PM is willing to deal with that garbage for them for $40 per unit they are going to get hit with a tough reality check.

    Most PM's have a cap on how low they will go for % rent wise. I believe mine w has a $70 min and 10% anything over 700. I said 10% because thats what it costs me personally and I find it well worth the 10% knowing just what my family has gone through with their renters, much less other landlords I know.

     I am not in any way suggesting anyone buy a bunch of properties in dangerous neighborhoods and drop it on the PM, and in fact I think its a bad idea to even think that way for many reasons.

    What I am saying is, this scenario could happen in any neighborhood and the PM is better equipped to handle these situations than I am or most people I know. Some people do great as landlords of their own properties, but most people I know who own rentals are not at all prepared to properly handle an eviction much less a shooting during eviction. The neighborhood where the tenant committed suicide was a very nice neighborhood, and my mom had some renters dealing drugs in her rental once, it was also a great neighborhood, just bad tenants. I am saying this stuff happens all the time, and it could happen in any neighborhood to any landlord, and I know I am not prepared to deal with it.

    1Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free