los angeles, CA · Member since 2009 · 223 posts · 4 votes
I'm in los angeles california and i found out today one of my military tenant has 2 guns with him.... this is very scary for me... i still have 2 rooms to rent.. for the new people coming in can i put a clause in there for no guns?
Investor · Redding, CA · Member since 2014 · 8 posts · 8 votes
11y
A tenant with guns really shouldn't be an issue. The quality of the person is where you should be making your judgements. The the guy is military so obviously the government has trained him on how to use them. Guns aren't bad just the person behind them if they are used improperly.
As long as they are legal, and properly stored if minors are in the unit, what's your concern? I've seen many guns in units and carry myself. I run background checks on my tenants and don't allow felons, so I don't have a concern if they own a legal firearm. If they are not legal in your jurisdiction they are already in violation (and obviously don't care), so another statement in your contract won't make much difference other than to perhaps give you some liability cover.
However, we did have a unit years ago where a tenant moved in a 'friend', 'cousin', 'pick your relationship of the week' who had automatic weapons, drugs and hookers. We informed the police of what we knew and they eventually busted everyone in the unit and cleaned it out for us!
What state? About 40 states allow automatic weapons. That in and of itself is not a criminal offense unless they are not legal in the state possessed. As far as drugs and hookers, depends on the state. Nevada allows hookers. Colorado allows weed. Both states allow fully automatic weapons. Down in Florida, things are pretty boring here. I live in Naples. All we have are a few Uzi's, MP5's, M16's, and an occasional grenade launcher owned by some old guy. It seems all the old people live in Naples, and their parents live in Sarasota:)
Watertown, NY · Member since 2015 · 12 posts · 5 votes
11y
Statistically, civilian concealed handgun carriers are even less likely to commit/be charged of crimes than police officers. This military member has also passed background checks, is likely well-trained in firearm handling/safety, qualifies for TSA precheck at airports, etc. I agree with the comments ab taking on liability if one attempts to infringe on the rights of others to defend themselves and their loved ones.
Understand, the article is from a Chicago newspaper, which is obviously not California. Also, it is from two years ago and laws/statutes/etc may have changed since then.
Still, it says private (as opposed to municipal/gov't) landlords CAN prohibit firearms, just as landlords prohibit pets, smoking, and many other things.
Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
If you rented to a plumber and he brought home a wrench would you be scared? What about a chef who brings home a knife? How about a fireman who brings home an ax? A construction worker who owns a hammer? Any of those scary?
Or, do people who exercise their constitutional rights scare you? A person who volunteers to defend your homeland against enemies foreign and domestic is not someone to fear. You should thank this person every time you see him.
Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y
C'mon guys, lay off her. Stern admonishments about the virtues of gun ownership are not pertinent to her original post. What would be pertinent would be to provide some thoughtful and/or knowledgeable information regarding her specific question. Save the pro-gun lobbying for another site.
C'mon guys, lay off her. Stern admonishments about the virtues of gun ownership are not pertinent to her original post. What would be pertinent would be to provide some thoughtful and/or knowledgeable information regarding her specific question. Save the pro-gun lobbying for another site.
Cheers.
I posted links to specific California laws and suggested she confer with a lawyer, but only response from OP has been asking if it is legal to put in a lease.
C'mon guys, lay off her. Stern admonishments about the virtues of gun ownership are not pertinent to her original post. What would be pertinent would be to provide some thoughtful and/or knowledgeable information regarding her specific question. Save the pro-gun lobbying for another site.
Cheers.
I posted links to specific California laws and suggested she confer with a lawyer, but only response from OP has been asking if it is legal to put in a lease.
Yes you did. My message wasn't directed at you.
But to be fair, your first message doesn't really address the issue of whether she can prohibit firearms via her lease. To my non-lawyer eyes, your quote seems to address the issue of overall gun ownership/possession, rather than how a lease might address the restriction of firearms by tenants.
Not trying to start an argument with you. I, for one, am curious about this subject. Not interested in debating NRA points with anyone. Just honestly curious about how leases might be used to address the topic of guns in a rental property.
Residential Real Estate Agent · San antonio, TX · Member since 2013 · 130 posts · 44 votes
11y
"Unless otherwise unlawful, any person over the age of 18 who is not prohibited from possessing firearms may have a loaded or unloaded firearm at his or her place of residence"
Again, totally not a lawyer, but that seems pretty clear to me. If I were a tenant in CA and otherwise not breaking a law then I would have no problem telling this landlord to pound sand based on that.
"Unless otherwise unlawful, any person over the age of 18 who is not prohibited from possessing firearms may have a loaded or unloaded firearm at his or her place of residence"
Again, totally not a lawyer, but that seems pretty clear to me. If I were a tenant in CA and otherwise not breaking a law then I would have no problem telling this landlord to pound sand based on that.
My question would be, does a provision in a lease count as a prohibition against possessing a firearm on property owned by a landlord?
I'm not a lawyer. I don't know. If you are a lawyer and you have a valid legal opinion on this, I would love to hear it. Whether in CA, TX, or NC, or anywhere in America.
Real Estate Broker · Provo, UT · Member since 2013 · 689 posts · 511 votes
11y
In most cases where there are multiple housing restrictions (i.e. city restrictions and then private neighborhood recorded CC&R's), the more restrictive rule wins as long as it is legal.
I don't think you can legally restrict the constitutional rights of an individual. Like it or not. I believe housing laws are different than the laws that govern the access given to the public of private establishments (grocery stores, malls, etc...).
Think of it this way - could you (or would you) tell a Jewish or Muslim person they can't worship in the apartment they rent from you? No, you wouldn't - unless you're a total dork.
Think of it this way - could you (or would you) tell a Jewish or Muslim person they can't worship in the apartment they rent from you? No, you wouldn't - unless you're a total dork.
But prohibiting freedom of religion is EXPRESSLY forbidden by every fair housing statute I have ever read. I've never seen freedom of gun ownership addressed in any fair housing statute. Nor have I seen Gun Owners listed as a protected group in any landlord law.
Again, I am not a lawyer and I will gladly defer to you or anyone else who can point to specific law regarding the topic of guns and leases.
A clause in a contract does not make something illegal. If my landlord says no pets, I can't be arrested if I sneak my dog in. Come on now.
You cannot be arrested, but the landlord can legally evict you for breaking the lease as it regards pets. The question is, does that hold in regards to firearms if there is a clause in a lease that prohibits firearms?
I don't know. I am not a lawyer. I welcome any actual legal input on the topic.
St Thomas, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 575 posts · 408 votes
11y
@Sarah Jones has a legitimate concern about dealing with firearms. When used they are intended to be fatal. Looking at this from a business standpoint, I would prefer that tenants in my properties not have lethal weapons at their disposal because they are inherently dangerous.
Life is complicated and I genuinely appreciate that there are widely divergent views on this issue. But from my own perspective as a US citizen resident in Canada I must say that Canadian law makes it easier and safer to be a landlord from a purely practical standpoint. Whenever I encounter a tenant, however aggrieved, I do not need to worry about whether they have access to a controlled firearm. It is highly unlikely that they do due to our law enforcement and import controls. I have a wife and a young family, and I would like to be with them for a while yet. If I felt I would routinely face such dangers I would get out of the landlording business.
I respect others views on this board but I encourage you to think of the least savory, most unhinged tenant you have had, and then put a gun in their hands. Do you feel better or worse at this thought?
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."
Of course I'm not an attorney, but I've had my share of legal battles. One position that I would NOT ever try to, let alone want to defend is restricting legal firearm ownership in somebody's home. Like it or not, it is your tenant's home. Hence the Leasehold Estate of a LEASE.
As a landlord it might be your HOUSE, but it's your tenant's HOME. Big, huge, enormous, massive difference.
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.".
The Bill Of Rights also guarantees "the pursuit of happiness" but that doesn't allow a tenant to do anything they want in a rental property, otherwise illegal or legal.
Again, it seems you're speaking more from a passionate opinion on gun control than on legal lease/landlord law. I am not debating your stance on overall gun control law -- I have no interest in broaching that topic in this forum. I simply want to be informed on actual law regarding leases and firearm possession in a rental property.
Short of banning guns, you could require that they be kept in a safe, which you would need to see. You also could require that the tenant show evidence of some kind of gun-safety training. These requirements might not deter a criminal or even an irresponsible person from having a gun, but it could give you additional leverage to terminate a lease or limit your liability if a problem occurred and you could show that the tenant was violating the lease.
Bob Hucker's post is probably an appropriate compromise.
There are a few concerns that the OP @Sarah Jones might want to clarify. Rooms are mentioned as being the rent unit. Is this the OP's home / residence, or is this a rooming house? Might be acceptable to discriminate in one's own home (based on exemptions in federal fair housing regulations).
The concerns are that the gun owner could act inappropriately; also, another occupant (not the gun owner) might somehow gain access to the firearms. The gun owner probably has had to undergo various qualifications to get the firearms legally; another occupant might not have been qualified at all. Then there is the matter of firearm possession in any shared spaces.
I rent out entire units, not just rooms, so I don't have to deal with any of this ...
The Bill Of Rights also guarantees "the pursuit of happiness"
What? That is not in the Constitution at all, let alone the 1st ten amendments.
"Okay, but I'm not interested in non-legal opinion on the subject."
Call a lawyer and ask then. The answer for Sarah is different than you anyway as you are in completely different states. At this point, I think you are being deliberately obtuse and argumentative.
Investor · Plano, TX · Member since 2015 · 74 posts · 22 votes
11y
First I will admit to being a gun owner and an active NRA member, so there.
While not a lawyer, it would seem to me the critical discussion is the business owners right to allow the possession of guns on their property. Even in Texas there is a special provision in the law for businesses to request the concealed carry permit holders to not carry on their premise. And I think rental property would be considered a business property. So if you advise tenants of the "no gun policy" prior to signing a lease, it would follow possession of firearms would be a violation of the lease agreement. All of this would have to be clear at the onset of the lease, not after the fact.
Now as a little side note, when first married along time ago, we were living in an apartment complex. Both my wife and I were competitive shooters, so we would go in and out of the apartment with our firearms, in proper cases of course. On Halloween our cars were the only cars in the lot that did not get the windows soaped.
Real Estate Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2015 · 58 posts · 20 votes
11y
Guns aren't the problem, it's the operator that needs to be evaluated. Is he irresponsible with it? If not... let him have it. He's a veteran after all.