Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2014 · 60 posts · 5 votes
I have a tenant who recently moved out. During her tenancy her boyfriend totally destroyed the back entry door (cost $600). He is now in prison and supposedly will pay restitution to me when he is release. The person at the court said I would have "a snowball's chance in Hell" of ever getting the money.
In her lease it states if she or her guests damages the property she is responsible for it.
I then sent her the security deposit minus the $600.
She said I must pay her her full deposit because I will be getting the money from her boyfriend when he gets out of prison.
I suppose I am "screwed" and I must return her full deposit?
San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
Nope, she's responsible. She's on the lease. It's not your job to find out who caused the damage. It was her responsibility as your tenant to take care of any damage that occurred.
San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
Nope, she's responsible. She's on the lease. It's not your job to find out who caused the damage. It was her responsibility as your tenant to take care of any damage that occurred.
Auburn, GA · Member since 2010 · 60 posts · 22 votes
11y
I recently watched an episode of "Judge Judy" where the guest of the tenant was smoking a cigar on the balcony and somehow caused a fire. He admitted that it was his fault. The landlord was suing the tenant for damages but Judge Judy said that the Landlord needed to sue the guest because the damage was caused by him and not the tenant. Tenant even tried to show her the lease but she said "I don't care. You are suing the wrong person". I was very surprised at this decision because I also have a clause in my lease that states the tenant is responsible for damages caused by their guests due to negligence.
Flipper · Hagerstown, MD · Member since 2015 · 51 posts · 16 votes
11y
@Jeff J. I would not have paid her. Period. The deposit is supposed to be used for damages to the property. I don't imagine MN differs that much. Here in WV the Landlord has to notify tenant within 30 or 60 days (which ever the lease states) How much of the deposit is being returned and an itemized list of what was deducted from it.
You should have saved yourself $600. Don't let another Tenant push you around. Legal Savvy....she probably never even filed a case.
3. SECURITY DEPOSITS
Landlords have the right to require tenants to pay a security deposit (sometimes called a damage deposit). This is money paid by the tenant and held by the landlord to pay for any damage beyond ordinary wear and tear the tenant might do to the rental unit, any unpaid rent, or any money the tenant owes to the landlord under some agreement. Minn. Stat.
Investor · Saint Paul, MN · Member since 2014 · 60 posts · 5 votes
11y
Her point was I was "double dipping": Getting the $600 from her and also $600 from her boyfriend when he gets out of prison. Of course the latter will never happen.
I'm OK with paying it. I don't need any more stress.
Rental Property Investor · St Paul, MN · Member since 2013 · 91 posts · 45 votes
11y
If the boyfriend wasn't on the lease then you have no way of getting the money from him. Why would you collect damages from someone you didn't rent to? Good luck getting money from someone like that. I wouldn't have returned that money to her for sure. But I would have called a lawyer.
I guess if it's worth the $600 to get rid of the situation then you have that at least - assuming it does end here (hopefully).
Involved In Real Estate · Melbourne, FL · Member since 2015 · 25 posts · 10 votes
11y
I'm not sure that we have enough facts to write up any advice on this. Why were you even speaking to "the prison boyfriend"? This is an issue between you and your tenant. He shouldn't be promising to pay anything and you shouldn't be relying on his promise. Was there a civil lawsuit between you and the boyfriend? Not sure how he is even legally included in this situation. It is relatively simple - you leased the house, the tenant destroyed the house - upon move out/check out - you deduct damages from the security deposit.
That being said, I'm not an attorney nor do I play one on TV - talk to an attorney, give them the complete set of facts and get good advice!
It is in the lease that a guest's damage would be the responsibility of the tenant.
The tenant even admitted she would have been required to pay if I had Not got a restitution order from the boyfriend.
She has been around the block many times (several lawsuits) so I was no match for her.
You were only no match for her, because you didn't try. Seems to me you could have fought this. You're only double dipping when you actually receive two payments, in my opinion. I would have just asked the court to write up something that said the boyfriend has to pay her back.
At any rate, even if you don't want to pay a lawyer, you can always use small claims court. Just show up and ask the judge to do what's legal and fair. You'd be better off than just letting someone bluff you. In my opinion.
I can't stand a bully (your tenant). It's always worth the money to take them to small claims court, in my opinion. If the judge says I need to do what they are claiming, then fine. Odds are that won't happen, in my experience.
Rental Property Investor · NH · Member since 2013 · 111 posts · 28 votes
11y
I agree with what you did. You know you were justified on keeping the money but you took the high road. Karma will reward you. I took the high road to te tune of $700 one time and was rewarded two months later with finding my best real estate deal yet and great tenants. Karma buddy. The universe owes you one ;)
The advice I gave him was based off the laws in his own state PRIOR to finding out that the restitution order was court ordered. In a typical situation his state holds similar laws as my own. In my state you deduct expense from deposit as long as it does not qualify for wear and tear. You must, within so many days, send notice to tenant letting them know the itemized deductions. I actually took the time to look up his state laws before any response was given. Simple. I don't think anyone here was presenting themselves as lawyers or anything of the like. We were merely giving him advice as he asked for. Have a great day!
Unfortunately, we are an LLC and in MN we are required to use a lawyer. Too expensive. Best just to pay and be done.
People tend to follow the advice of the "gurus" (including podcasts), many of whom use scare tactics to instill a sense of fear in us, and then find themselves in the same situation you're in... owning a property in an LLC, and finding out you can't litigate even the simplest of matters without hiring an attorney to represent the LLC in court.
Thank the gurus and podcast authors who systematically promote half-truths (the benefits of their ways without even a mention of the down-sides) for this. One thing that is easily learned in this forum - legal advice is worth what you pay for it... free advice is worth just that - nothing.
I recently watched an episode of "Judge Judy" where the guest of the tenant was smoking a cigar on the balcony and somehow caused a fire. He admitted that it was his fault. The landlord was suing the tenant for damages but Judge Judy said that the Landlord needed to sue the guest because the damage was caused by him and not the tenant. Tenant even tried to show her the lease but she said "I don't care. You are suing the wrong person". I was very surprised at this decision because I also have a clause in my lease that states the tenant is responsible for damages caused by their guests due to negligence.
Please don't base any decisions you make as a landlord on what you see on Judge Judy. That show is all about entertainment. It's not housing court, and I can't even believe I have to say this to somebody.
Auburn, GA · Member since 2010 · 60 posts · 22 votes
11y
@Rob: my point was that some states are more tenant friendly and some judges see things differently. He needed to get Real legal advice and go forward from there.
Property Manager · Gilbert, AZ · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 451 votes
11y
I am a landlord in MN and I would not have given up the $600 to the tenant but I would have been happy to give my attorney that $600 to follow through!
I am a landlord in MN and I would not have given up the $600 to the tenant but I would have been happy to give my attorney that $600 to follow through!
You would have lost. He has an order of restitution from the court.