My first rental disaster
San Antonio, TX · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 5 votes
My first rental disaster
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Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
11yStart by making sure you follow local landlord tenant law as to return of the security deposit. Even if you recognize that you will be keeping the entire amount, you must send the tenant an accounting of the expenses you incurred to which you applied the security deposit, and you must do so within a specific timeline or you could find yourself having to pay the tenant maybe double or triple the deposit as penalty for failing to comply with the law. If the dumpster and haul away fees are documented on an invoice, and that exceeds the deposit, then you don't have to go much further than that to account for where the deposit went.
Now, with all that stuff left behind - was this an eviction, a midnight move out on the sly, or done with a notice to you in advance? Because the tenant might claim that they left "valuables" behind, and that you took them ...
78 Replies
- Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Ben Meddeb:
...
The house is so badly infested with German roaches I had to throw away every appliance! Pest control cost me $250 for a 3 months treatment
...
That is far too extreme, to toss the appliances. The pest control treatments would have killed them in the appliances too (keep all appliance doors open during treatment and unplugged), then just a matter of cleaning out the dead bugs. The next tenant might be just as nasty, and no landlord can afford to replace appliances on every move out.
- 11yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
I think its more of what is your personal time worth equation... If your intent on taking the time to sue for a 1 or 2k then that is a personal decision.. Me personally waste of time.
When I had a bunch of rentals I would have my secretary do the default and garnishments. But then the folks file BK and you have to pay it all back to the bankruptcy trustee every dime they paid you... So now your out double.
I also had one of my last one's were the tenant did SO much damage 30k plus worth.. that the insurance company did cover it. AS intentional destruction.. were your vulnerable is slobs that create the 5 to 10k turn over and its excessive wear and tear and your out the money.. OH the joys of landlording.. there is a reason you have burnt out landlords !! But in this case were I got a 30k insurance check the insurance company had me subrogate the claim to them and they were going to not only go after this person civily but file criminal charges..
- Ely, MN · Member since 2015 · 3 posts · 1 vote11y
I own a handyman/property management company now, and am just starting out in REI. When I approach a potential client, one of the first things I tell them is that I collect the rent personally at the rental address every month. Most of my clients are first-time rental property owners, and this usually brings a big sigh of relief. I do live in a small town, which I think would be easier than a large city, but I'd do it on a large scale, too. The 10% I charge for my services hasn't bothered anyone yet, and saves a world of headaches later.
- Rental Property Investor · philadelphia, PA · Member since 2011 · 143 posts · 20 votes11y
Very interesting! But I pray I never have to experience that. I definitely understand how landlords can burn out, but I'm young and full of energy now. So I'm going to stick with my plan until life changes.
Thanks for the story
- Investor · Rosebud, AR · Member since 2014 · 133 posts · 49 votes11y
Clean it up, get it back ready for rent. continue on. Document everything.
If you want to sue, sue. I have a few judgments in my file cabinet. only person who got paid was the lawyers. If they had good credit the would be buying not renting.
We have threatened to call Department of human services on the conditions they had their children in. It's amazing how quick they show up and clean up the place in two or three days. We have our own clean up guys now. Usually have it ready to rent in a week or so.
- 11yColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
Sorry for your issue. A couple of things not yet mentioned, if the carpet can be cleaned, clean it but if not put something more tenant proof in. If you put the work into the place originally it really hits you when someone trashes it but realize not even a good tenant will take care of it like you did.
If it is a single family they should mow but have a clause or have chargeback or just chargeback if it is not done. Anything included in the rent tenants my experience is tenants do not really appreciate the cost except when they first look. If you decide to hire a PM they get a percentage of whatever is rolled into the rent. In my opinion it is not a PM that helps so much as good screening
Lastly get it done and rent ready quickly. Hire a contractor to do the repairs and spend the time on screening for a good tenant.
- Hartsdale, NY · Member since 2015 · 874 posts · 218 votes11y
Most tenants are no problem. We have to screen as best we can, We have to have regular visits to our property. If we see a problem we have to be proactive and try to solve it
- Real Estate Agent · Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 249 posts · 73 votes11y
Originally posted by @Joe Cummings:
What is the point of suing people with no money?
This is real life, not Judge Judy
Im with Joe whats the point of suing…? just to send a message. And I think the person who created this post said their electricity had been off for some time so that pretty much tells me they have no money. Conduct inspections next time and protect yourself no matter how busy you may be.
- Hartsdale, NY · Member since 2015 · 874 posts · 218 votes11y
You are doing everything to clean up the place. Your insurance company has made you whole. You have learned how to screen future tenants. If you sue them and get a judgement then you can close the book on the entire experience. Even if you never collect you will know you have done it all.
- Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Ben Meddeb:
Thank you Steve :)
I posted a notice to evict on the 11th for non payment , but they paid me the next day and I told them they need to move out (their lease was up and they were month to month.
On the first I showed up and the place was a landfill , electricity was turned off , I called the electric company and they said the power was turned off for non payment on the 21st . Fridge was FULL of every kind of food and you can imagine how it smelled like
I have every receipt for the clean up ... They are not returning my calls and I am not sure where they are now . This is in San Antonio TX , Bexar county ,
Don't assume you can regain possession until you have followed what landlord-tenant law for your jurisdiction requires. Sounds like this transpired in April and you verbally told them they need to move out after they paid April rent. Did you serve them a proper notice to terminate, in writing? When they did not pay rent on May 1st and appeared to have moved out, did you follow abandonment procedures, or did you just enter and start the clean out? Be careful. Find out what is legal for you to do, or your actions could hurt you even more.
- Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2014 · 284 posts · 123 votes11y
Originally posted by @Ben Meddeb:
Thank you Steve :)
I posted a notice to evict on the 11th for non payment , but they paid me the next day and I told them they need to move out (their lease was up and they were month to month.
On the first I showed up and the place was a landfill , electricity was turned off , I called the electric company and they said the power was turned off for non payment on the 21st . Fridge was FULL of every kind of food and you can imagine how it smelled like
Can you elaborate a little on what the discussions looked like prior to eviction?
I think it's worth remembering that while eviction is always a tool in your arsenal, it should really be used only as a last resort with a defaulting tenant who is just completely unresponsive. I've almost never had to evict anyone, partly because I recognize that giving tenants some slack is far more desirable than what they can do to the place if you don't.
I've had tenants call and say they are having trouble making rent. Instead of immediate eviction proceedings, I generally will give them some time to find a new place, and in return, they usually leave the place in great condition. Any rent deficiencies come out of the security deposit, but otherwise I return their deposit, assuming I can show/rent the unit while they're living there. I obviously have the right to evict them and claim their security deposit, but this is always treated as a last resort.
I also deal with situations sometimes where I acquire a tenant/former owner post-foreclosure. And usually, it is the same thing. I give them as much time as they need to find a new place, and in return they usually leave the place in great shape.
I'm not saying OP did anything wrong in this case. Some people are just dicks. But it is useful to keep in mind that tenants are people to, and you can save yourself a lot of headache by just treating them as human beings instead of unwanted squatters in your property. I find that the benefits of being able to turn over the unit in good shape and not have to pay for repairs outweigh the downside of potentially losing a little rent.
- Hartsdale, NY · Member since 2015 · 874 posts · 218 votes11y
@Hal Thompson
This condiiton of the place had nothing to do with not treating these people properly. This apartment/home did not get into this condiiton over night. These people never learned how to live in a place or clean anything. They were just slobs. It was unfortunate for them and unfortunate for the landlord.
You say "I give them as much time as they need to find a new place, and in return they usually leave the place in great shape. " So you are saying that you would have known how to treat them correctly and they would have left the place in good shape? I think this is absurd.
- Philly Burbs, PA · Member since 2015 · 338 posts · 133 votes11y
Seriously, I see this tenants future as living in mom's basement, or a recovery house, and working under the table. If they start to get their life together they'll probably declare bankruptcy.
Believe me, if I thought they had any ability to pay, I'd sue, but hearing about no electric, and seeing that mess, I think they are more concerned with getting high TONIGHT, than paying anyone.
- Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes11y
@Joe Cummings - what you wrote just might be true. However, if you have ever bought a house at auction (@Hal Thompson has so I'm sure he'll concur), or seen the inside of a just foreclosed house before the bank has had it cleaned out - well, there are lots of owner occupants (not just renters) living in conditions that are similar, and attributing the situation to substance abuse is just stereotyping and might not be quite true. Job loss and illness cause people to run out of money, and reach a point of despair ... such that you see results as in the OP's pictures.
- Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes11y
BTW - it!s already been pointed out and acknowledged that better screening is a must. And the OP's photos would have probably been the conditions one would have seen upon conducting an IN HOME visit to this tenant's prior address - in other words, here is the example and reason why you MUST use in home visits as part of a thorough screening process.
- Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes11y
Ben- First and foremost get the property cleaned up and ready for rent asap. That should be your one and only priority at this time.
I know some very well meaning members from different states have given you advice that is well meaning but not specific to the state of Texas:
In Texas, you are required to refund the deposit or provide an accounting of charges with 30 days of the tenant vacating AND providing a forwarding address. Meaning the 30 day clock does not begin until the forwarding address is provided.
Obtaining a judgment in Texas- You can file a small claims action in the county(Bexar) for amounts up to $10,000. The former tenant will have to be located and be able to be served and you will have to be present. However, in Texas you have virtually NO chance of collecting on the judgment. You cannot garnish wages and professional tenants very rarely have non-exempt property. I have collected exactly 1 in 25 years and that was from a soldier who had to have my signature to clear post
Good luck and feel free to contact me if I can help
- Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2014 · 284 posts · 123 votes11y
Yes, as @Steve Babiak and others have pointed out, the key is to not rent to that kind of tenant in the first place. This is all part of proper background checking and credit screening. An interview with the tenant's former landlord would also be helpful. Always independently verify everything the tenant puts in the application with your own research; obviously don't just trust references at their word. It is likely one of the reasons your co-worker rented your unit in the first place is because he knew he couldn't get an apartment in other places.
In the event you have already rented to someone who is in default, I do think it helps to be reasonable and compassionate for their situation. People's lives have ups and downs. And remember, your life may have ups and downs. Treat other people the way you would want to be treated if you were down on your luck. OP hasn't elaborated on the process that led to this result, but in general I do think this can be avoided if you play it cool when the tenant is in default.
@Barbara G. I don't know the tenants, so I obviously can't say for sure what would have happened. It is possible that this is the way their place always was. However, I do think being understanding of the tenant's situation increases the likelihood they will clean up after themselves and leave your place in good shape. Of course there is no knowing for sure, but it certainly helps.
I also agree that judgments are a waste of time. You'll spend more on the lawyer than you'll ever get back from the judgment. Just fix the place up and screen better in the future.
- Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Greg H.:
Ben- First and foremost get the property cleaned up and ready for rent asap. That should be your one and only priority at this time.
I know some very well meaning members from different states have given you advice that is well meaning but not specific to the state of Texas:
In Texas, you are required to refund the deposit or provide an accounting of charges with 30 days of the tenant vacating AND providing a forwarding address. Meaning the 30 day clock does not begin until the forwarding address is provided.
Obtaining a judgment in Texas- You can file a small claims action in the county(Bexar) for amounts up to $10,000. The former tenant will have to be located and be able to be served and you will have to be present. However, in Texas you have virtually NO chance of collecting on the judgment. You cannot garnish wages and professional tenants very rarely have non-exempt property. I have collected exactly 1 in 25 years and that was from a soldier who had to have my signature to clear post
Good luck and feel free to contact me if I can help
Does Texas landlord-tenant law require a landlord to give proper notice to terminate a lease agreement that has converted to a month-to-month agreement and/or follow abandonment procedures before entering a rental unit, disposing of tenant belongings, and re-renting? Based on what we know from what the OP posted, did he do what he needed to do to regain possession of this rental unit legally?
- Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes11y
We can in Texas declare the property abandoned and take possession. However, the law does not define what is considered abandoned although possessions of value substantially moved out and utilities off would seem to meet the definition. I would always take pictures and have verification that the utilities are off for my records along with any communication or lack there of
Texas requires possessions of value to be stored for 60 days before being disposed of.
I personally would be fine with declaring it abandoned based on the information given and move forward with the clean up and renting of the property
The tenant's recourse if they feel they have been wronged would be small claims court which is informal with no lawyers. Just document....document and ......document and you will be fine
- Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 50 posts · 20 votes11y
Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:
So a real life example you will get. My mother had a tenant who became delinquent while my mother was hospitalized (and she passed away before being released). My mother's estate received a judgment against the tenant for monetary damages as well as possession. Tenant makes a few installment payments on the money judgment owed and stops doing so. A few years later, tenant has married and is looking to buy a house with spouse. Judgment balance gets paid in full because of that. Without the judgment, nothing would have been paid.
How did you know the former tenant was buying a house years later and how did you apply the judgment such that the it interfered with her purchase of a house?
- Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Greg H.:
We can in Texas declare the property abandoned and take possession. However, the law does not define what is considered abandoned although possessions of value substantially moved out and utilities off would seem to meet the definition. I would always take pictures and have verification that the utilities are off for my records along with any communication or lack there of
Texas requires possessions of value to be stored for 60 days before being disposed of.
I personally would be fine with declaring it abandoned based on the information given and move forward with the clean up and renting of the property
The tenant's recourse if they feel they have been wronged would be small claims court which is informal with no lawyers. Just document....document and ......document and you will be fine
Good to know. We have a similar procedure in Washington State for abandonment and we also post a notice of abandonment when we find a unit abandoned.
We can't just tell a tenant to move out when they are on a month-to-month tenancy. Instead, we must come to a mutual agreement to end the tenancy with the tenant or serve a legal notice to end the tenancy. That's a procedure a landlord can use to regain possession of the unit. Verbally telling a tenant they must move out and then entering the unit and declaring abandonment wouldn't fly here.
- Broker/Flipper · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes11y
I had to read the OP again. Most leases and therefor the standard would be for both parties is a 30 days notice to vacate on a month to month lease and it must be in writing.
- Investor · Vancouver, WA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Greg H.:
I had to read the OP again. Most leases and therefor the standard would be for both parties is a 30 days notice to vacate on a month to month lease and it must be in writing.
That makes sense. So the OP did not give the tenant proper legal notice to end the tenancy based on what he said here, nor did the tenant give proper notice to the OP that he was terminating the rental agreement.
IMHO, OP needs to get out of the residential property business OR use the services of a qualified property management company OR learn how to do landlording/property management the right way. Hopefully he will be able to sort out this mess and learn from it.
- Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Marcia Maynard:
Originally posted by @Ben Meddeb:
Thank you Steve :)
I posted a notice to evict on the 11th for non payment , but they paid me the next day and I told them they need to move out (their lease was up and they were month to month.
On the first I showed up and the place was a landfill , electricity was turned off , I called the electric company and they said the power was turned off for non payment on the 21st . Fridge was FULL of every kind of food and you can imagine how it smelled like
I have every receipt for the clean up ... They are not returning my calls and I am not sure where they are now . This is in San Antonio TX , Bexar county ,
Don't assume you can regain possession until you have followed what landlord-tenant law for your jurisdiction requires. Sounds like this transpired in April and you verbally told them they need to move out after they paid April rent. Did you serve them a proper notice to terminate, in writing? When they did not pay rent on May 1st and appeared to have moved out, did you follow abandonment procedures, or did you just enter and start the clean out? Be careful. Find out what is legal for you to do, or your actions could hurt you even more.
This is my question too. The tenant paid rent on the 12th, one day after notice was given. That's pretty timely and responsive. That doesn't sound like someone who is going to trash the place a few days later. In my world, tenants don't pay back rent in order to trash the property.
I have a feeling things went badly when you collected rent and gave your idea of notice. So how did it really go down when you told them they had to move? You can't just tell people to move, even on a month to month lease. You accepted rent on the 12th and had a paid up tenant. There are lawful time frames and notices required to terminate tenancy. Here in CA that tenant would have to be given 60 days termination notice as they lived there over a year.
Also, you don't have to get rid of working appliances because of roaches. The refrigerator is more challenging because sometimes the odors are difficult to remove. But I think you went overboard on that. If you decide to get a judgement, be cautious if you include appliance replacement as part of the damages. A eviction court judge will notice that.
I'm with @Steve Babiak on getting a judgment. Go through the process and teach yourself how to lawfully calculate damages, withhold the deposit and get a judgement.
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