My first rental disaster
San Antonio, TX · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 5 votes
my tenant completely trashed my place, deposit will not even cover the junk removal service
I called my insurance (USAA) the adjuster showed up and was very helpful : turns out Trashing the place is not covered BUT (blessing in disguise) I have water damage under the kitchen sink and the laminated floors/tiles walls , countertop Etc needs replacing and I'm expecting a seizable payout
My challenge :
Does contracting with a property management company will help me avoid this scenario in the future ? (Previous tenant was a coworker :( )
Where can I look for good help to repair the place ? As I am already spending good amount to just remove the junk and fight a terrible roach infestation (I could use some advice on this too)
Start by making sure you follow local landlord tenant law as to return of the security deposit. Even if you recognize that you will be keeping the entire amount, you must send the tenant an accounting of the expenses you incurred to which you applied the security deposit, and you must do so within a specific timeline or you could find yourself having to pay the tenant maybe double or triple the deposit as penalty for failing to comply with the law. If the dumpster and haul away fees are documented on an invoice, and that exceeds the deposit, then you don't have to go much further than that to account for where the deposit went.
Now, with all that stuff left behind - was this an eviction, a midnight move out on the sly, or done with a notice to you in advance? Because the tenant might claim that they left "valuables" behind, and that you took them ...
I had to read the OP again. Most leases and therefor the standard would be for both parties is a 30 days notice to vacate on a month to month lease and it must be in writing.
So, the OP had a paid up tenant on the 12th. Assuming the tenants and the OP don't come to a mutually agreeable termination plan, in TX can the OP give the 30 day notice on the 12th? Or does notice have to conform to the rent due dates in his original lease? So, the soonest the tenant would have to vacate is May 31st?
I think the OP was lucky just to get the unit back on May 1st, trash and all. Where I am, tenants usually draw it out a little longer.
@Ben Meddeb Sorry to hear this but thank you for sharing and creating value and information for others.
@K. Marie Poe
I used a specific language of terminating his right to occupy the property (even if he paid) for violating the terms of the lease (I googled the form/language used).
When he received the notice of eviction he texted me if I let him stay until the end of the month if he pays and I agreed (I'm not sure if SMS is considered in "writing" as oppose to oral agreement)
Does anyone know if electronic communication (email/sms) is considered legal form of a notice ?
Carpet is a biohazard !!
ughh... nasty. I would look at vinyl plank depending on the area and renters you expect to get. Stairs are more challenging depending on what you have under the carpet I might just recarpet them with a lower nap carpet.
An earlier poster stated that your deposit accounting was sent to the tenant based on when they gave you their forwarding address. I would be curious if that is true in Texas. Here we are required to send within 20 days. You send to the address of the rental if they don't provide a forwarding address because if you don't notify in 20 days they get it all back even if they trashed the place..... If you have the unopened letter it will document you sent it. I also keep copies that I have sent via email.
@K. Marie Poe
I used a specific language of terminating his right to occupy the property (even if he paid) for violating the terms of the lease (I googled the form/language used).
When he received the notice of eviction he texted me if I let him stay until the end of the month if he pays and I agreed (I'm not sure if SMS is considered in "writing" as oppose to oral agreement)
Does anyone know if electronic communication (email/sms) is considered legal form of a notice ?
Email and text is not an acceptable form to terminate tenancy, to notice the tenant to quit or pay, nor notice the tenant of "eviction" for breach of lease in any state that I'm aware (yet). Perhaps others can chime in on this. Did you actually notice your tenant of eviction for breach of lease via text, supported by nothing in writing? Seriously?
If all you did was text or email the tenant, you should consider yourself very, very lucky. They could have totally ignored you and your form of "notice" would have set you back weeks or months.
I suggest you get some professional management help with your rental. There is no shame in not being good at land lording. There should be concern when you don't see when and if you need to get help. You need help. :)
I had to read the OP again. Most leases and therefor the standard would be for both parties is a 30 days notice to vacate on a month to month lease and it must be in writing.
So, the OP had a paid up tenant on the 12th. Assuming the tenants and the OP don't come to a mutually agreeable termination plan, in TX can the OP give the 30 day notice on the 12th? Or does notice have to conform to the rent due dates in his original lease? So, the soonest the tenant would have to vacate is May 31st?
I think the OP was lucky just to get the unit back on May 1st, trash and all. Where I am, tenants usually draw it out a little longer.
It would depend on the language in his lease. A TAR(Texas Association of Realtors) lease can go either way based on which box is checked. The options are a straight 30 day notice or the lease will end on the last day of the month following the month when notice is given. I would say that the standard is to have just 30 days. Personally, I would rather have a tenant move out the 15th or 20th so I can have it ready to rent on the first
No, I sent someone knocked on the door , no one answered so he left it at the door
So a real life example you will get. My mother had a tenant who became delinquent while my mother was hospitalized (and she passed away before being released). My mother's estate received a judgment against the tenant for monetary damages as well as possession. Tenant makes a few installment payments on the money judgment owed and stops doing so. A few years later, tenant has married and is looking to buy a house with spouse. Judgment balance gets paid in full because of that. Without the judgment, nothing would have been paid.
How did you know the former tenant was buying a house years later and how did you apply the judgment such that the it interfered with her purchase of a house?
Did not know former tenant was buying a house until the estate was contacted to pay off the judgment. Didn't do anything deliberately to interfere with house purchase.
ughh... nasty. I would look at vinyl plank depending on the area and renters you expect to get. Stairs are more challenging depending on what you have under the carpet I might just recarpet them with a lower nap carpet.
An earlier poster stated that your deposit accounting was sent to the tenant based on when they gave you their forwarding address. I would be curious if that is true in Texas. Here we are required to send within 20 days. You send to the address of the rental if they don't provide a forwarding address because if you don't notify in 20 days they get it all back even if they trashed the place..... If you have the unopened letter it will document you sent it. I also keep copies that I have sent via email.
The requirement in Texas is 30 days from the time the unit is vacated and the tenant gives a forwarding address. So, we are not required to do anything until the forwarding address is given
No, I sent someone knocked on the door , no one answered so he left it at the door
The only acceptable forms of notification in Texas are:
-In Person to Tenant or an adult over 18 residing at the property
-Taped on the inside of the door
-Certified Mail
So a real life example you will get. My mother had a tenant who became delinquent while my mother was hospitalized (and she passed away before being released). My mother's estate received a judgment against the tenant for monetary damages as well as possession. Tenant makes a few installment payments on the money judgment owed and stops doing so. A few years later, tenant has married and is looking to buy a house with spouse. Judgment balance gets paid in full because of that. Without the judgment, nothing would have been paid.
How did you know the former tenant was buying a house years later and how did you apply the judgment such that the it interfered with her purchase of a house?
Did not know former tenant was buying a house until the estate was contacted to pay off the judgment. Didn't do anything deliberately to interfere with house purchase.
So the judgment was apparently recorded in the various credit reporting services so that when she applied for a loan the bank recognized the judgment in the credit report and required she pay it off to qualify for her loan. Nice when the laws work the way they are suppose to work. I wonder if people can win a judgment that includes an interest charge on the original balance due (ie. pegged to rate of inflation, etc.) so that the value of the payoff is not diminished over time. Hmmmm, something to remember to ask an attorney.
I'm having smaller pockets after this rental !! I'm just lucky I have good insurance ... I mean the adjuster suggested to claim water damage instead of waisting my time with vandalism/property damage ... I strongly recommend USAA if you are a member, they are a little pricer but well worth it
When the security deposit is not adequate to cover costs of damage and cleaning, our reconciliation letter requests payment of the deficiency within 30 days. Every once in a while we get it. If not, we wait another 30 days and send a copy of the lease, the security deposit reconciliation, the tenant’s original application to a collection agency. The agency we use takes a portion of what they collect as their only fee, so it costs us nothing unless they can collect and the agency is pretty motivated. Sometimes we collect within a couple of months; sometimes it is years later; and other times we never get anything. The advantage, though, is that we do collect some of it without any ongoing effort on our part. Once the agency has it we can forget about it until a check shows up.
It is easy. It costs nothing. It holds the tenant accountable.
So a real life example you will get. My mother had a tenant who became delinquent while my mother was hospitalized (and she passed away before being released). My mother's estate received a judgment against the tenant for monetary damages as well as possession. Tenant makes a few installment payments on the money judgment owed and stops doing so. A few years later, tenant has married and is looking to buy a house with spouse. Judgment balance gets paid in full because of that. Without the judgment, nothing would have been paid.
How did you know the former tenant was buying a house years later and how did you apply the judgment such that the it interfered with her purchase of a house?
The purpose of getting a judgement is to record it. Once recorded it affects the defendant's credit, ability to buy and often the ability to rent. You can't buy a house or get a loan with an outstanding judgment lien in the same county. This is why the IRS and state tax boards record liens. It's why counties record abstract judgments against those owe child support.
Once recorded, the judgment is public notice. If you are owed money on a judgment you will get a call if the debtor wants to get the lien released. The creditor gets paid the lien amount plus interest. Or the creditor can agree to a discounted amount. All that being said, a lot of times I see people go to all the trouble of suing and getting a judgment....and then they don't record it. Here in CA the courts don't record judgments. The courts and the recorder are totally different government agencies. It's up to the plaintiff or the plaintiff's attorney to get a certified copy from the courts and then pay to have it recorded.
We manage over 1500 units, and OCCASIONALLY we will have a situation like this come up. Whenever we do, we review the tenants application and our screening process.
It all goes back to screening.
Getting the place fixed back up, and re-rented are not really the challenges, getting a solid screening system in place is the real challenge.
As we have done this, we have reached a point where we rarely deal with a "nightmare situation".
No, I sent someone knocked on the door , no one answered so he left it at the door
...
-Taped on the inside of the door
...
If you leave it on the door, it is suggested that you take a dated photograph of the posting as proof that it was done, along with photographing the property / unit address or other identifying info. So that you aren't accused of falsifying that you posted ...
So a real life example you will get. My mother had a tenant who became delinquent while my mother was hospitalized (and she passed away before being released). My mother's estate received a judgment against the tenant for monetary damages as well as possession. Tenant makes a few installment payments on the money judgment owed and stops doing so. A few years later, tenant has married and is looking to buy a house with spouse. Judgment balance gets paid in full because of that. Without the judgment, nothing would have been paid.
How did you know the former tenant was buying a house years later and how did you apply the judgment such that the it interfered with her purchase of a house?
Did not know former tenant was buying a house until the estate was contacted to pay off the judgment. Didn't do anything deliberately to interfere with house purchase.
So the judgment was apparently recorded in the various credit reporting services so that when she applied for a loan the bank recognized the judgment in the credit report and required she pay it off to qualify for her loan. Nice when the laws work the way they are suppose to work. I wonder if people can win a judgment that includes an interest charge on the original balance due (ie. pegged to rate of inflation, etc.) so that the value of the payoff is not diminished over time. Hmmmm, something to remember to ask an attorney.
Judgments aren't "recorded in the various credit reporting services". Documents are recorded at your county clerk or recorder or whatever it's called in your area. Credit reports include any negative recorded public docs. Liens, notices of default, judgements, etc. Most judgments are paid off with interest as determined by the judgment and/or state law (depends on the type).
I'm so sorry to hear of your rental disaster....what a pain to deal with all that clean up. I also had a really bad experience with my first tenant years ago cause I made the mistake of renting to a girl that I thought was a "friend" and had also worked with her before. It was a total nightmare to say the least. The lesson I learned is that you can "know" someone without really knowing them. And in real estate if someone is a bad person they will use their friendship with you to take advantage of you. Since then I've only rented to strangers (I would never rent to a friend again) and I've used good real estate agents to find tenants and I've never had a problem since ...knock on wood. I wouldn't let this discourage you....clean up your place and then find a good boring clean tenant to rent to.
No, I sent someone knocked on the door , no one answered so he left it at the door
...
-Taped on the inside of the door
...
If you leave it on the door, it is suggested that you take a dated photograph of the posting as proof that it was done, along with photographing the property / unit address or other identifying info. So that you aren't accused of falsifying that you posted ...
My eviction service person (who also does process serving) takes pictures when she posts the quit or pay notices on the door. In my last eviction the tenants claimed they didn't receive the notice, even though when I was next at the property I could see the tape where it had been posted. I ended up negotiating cash for keys on that one. So, I have no idea how much weight those pictures have in court. Anyone can take a picture of anything. It isn't anymore evidence than the tenant's word saying they didn't get it. Although I did have the tenant's attention when I said I had a picture of the posting. Maybe it's a negotiating point more than supporting evidence?
@Ben Meddeb I am so sorry to hear this, but rule number one, real estate investing is not for the light hearted. Another reason why BP forums always tell you to not invest, rent or borrow money people you know, it can turn a relationship sour.
You need to be careful filing claims with your insurance. Sometimes you just have to suck up the cost and make sure you have a cushion of savings. Depending on your state and insurance laws, if you make too many claims, the insurance company would deem you uninsurable and will cease to cover you. Then you would have even more problems if you cannot insure your property. We only file a claim if our place burns down (knock on wood it hasn't happened yet) and I've had copper pipes stolen, tenant decided to spray paint granite counter tops and ceiling fans because he didn't like the color and we had to replace.
Like @Steve Babiak said look up the rules for your state/city regarding security deposits and returning them. The last thing you want is being hauled to court to have to return your tenants security deposit AND pay their legal fees. Also check with your city/state as to how much security deposit you can charge for your next tenant. You can't make it so high that they can't afford to move in. People rent because they can't afford or qualify for a house, and if your security deposit and first months rent is high, you'll never get a tenant.
Best of luck!
@Ben - I'm sorry to hear the mess they made; unfortunately is not unusual for tenants to act like this (sometimes out of pure negligence and some other's out of life's circumstances - please note I'm not condoning their behavior)
Steve is right; here in Texas (I'm in Austin) the landlord/property management company has 30 days in which to account - in writing - expenses due a tenant after move out. I also agree with his statement about filing the eviction papers and a writ of possession to help you with future issues as he mentioned.
Hiring a property management company will not necessarily keep this from happening, quarterly inspections will help - I learned that the most important tool you have to keep this to a minimum (tenants bailing on you) is being VERY FIRM with your rent collection procedures!! I did a brief stint as a property manager last year and in the 7 months I was there I served 10 "old" tenants! (read into it what you may)
The other one comment I have is about your idea to charge future tenants a higher security deposit - make sure you don't price your property out of the "norm" and loose out on monthly income. Check with a realtor to see what that norm is for your market - here in Austin we charge an amount equal to the monthly rental rate.
Raul
The biggest and most important thing that you can do to avoid this in the future is to thoroughly screen your tenants before signing a lease with them. Most professional property managers do this, so yes hiring a professional property manager could help you avoid this....
@Ben - I'm sorry to hear the mess they made; unfortunately is not unusual for tenants to act like this (sometimes out of pure negligence and some other's out of life's circumstances - please note I'm not condoning their behavior
Steve is right; here in Texas (I'm in Austin) the landlord/property management company has 30 days in which to account - in writing - expenses due a tenant after move out. I also agree with his statement about filing the eviction papers and a writ of possession to help you with future issues as he mentioned.
Raul- since you have done some property management I wanted to clarify a few things. Texas law requires the return and/or accounting of the security deposit within 30 days of vacating AND tenant providing a forwarding address.
Texas is a landlord state. I would get an estimate for the damages and then sue the guy. So, when the guy goes to get another apartment or house then that landlord will turn him down. Eventually he or she will get tired of it and pay you. I know as I used to manage a bunch of slum type places that we were renovating. I think I sued in small claims at least 5 tenants or maybe more. I can't remember as its been several years. Think of April as Christmas. April 15th is tax refund day. Eventually the fella will take care of it and you will be paid. Be sure that you sue for interest as well. In Austin, if one has a broken lease on their credit or owes money to a landlord there is a slim chance of him or her finding decent housing where the landlord will accept them as tenants.
I would craigslist to get an estimate then I would just get busy. Think of it as sweat equity. If you can't figure it out then youtube it. Many of the things around the house can be fixed fairly easily with a little bit of thought. Carpet can be salvaged if you have a solid carpet cleaner. There are many ways to get a place cleaned up cheaply.
Hiring a solid property manager is a good choice unless you have the time to deal with it. Consult with a broker there in SA and see if they can just help you with the process. You don't have to hire them but a little advice from folks that do the business every day is probably a good step.
PM me if you have any questions. I have bailed out folks that have been in much much worse positions than yours, I believe. Once I helped out some friends that had one tenant pass away from alcohol, the son was a complete mess with drugs urinating and defecating on the floor and on top of all that they were hoarders. We had to get 2 40 yard trash haul off containers to get rid of it all. It happens but they are much better landlords now and screen diligently. When I ran an apartment building with over 250 units one of the tenants was a super nice lady that paid her rent on time and was solid in every respect except she was a total disaster and her place was insect and rat infested...gross!! So she got the heave ho. It happens.