Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 166 posts · 67 votes
So I received this message from a current tenant who is re-signing a 12 month lease:
Attached is the signed lease. I have excluded the mold disclosure form. We would like underneath the fridge looked at to make sure there is no mold after the periodic leaking from the fridge. We have the form all signed and ready to go otherwise.
Do I have to comply? What would you do? For what it is worth, I just saw their shower the other weekend and it's got plenty (not crazy amount) of not tended to common shower mold (this is a mid-twenties first time cohabitating couple). I also live 4.5 hours away so I'm not driving in to do this.
Rental Property Investor · Fredericton, New Brunswick · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y
Eric,
Do you have a local handy{wo}man? Have them go over to the unit and look under the fridge. Depending on the vintage of the fridge, the periodic leaking might be a full/over flowing defrost tray. While they are they, have them vacuum the coils (if it is an older fridge with the coils on the back) and under the fridge ... and then remind the tenant they should be doing this 2-4 times per year.
Alternatively, have them compile their service wish list and make a single visit to attend to it all.
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 166 posts · 67 votes
11y
I have zero problem taking care of any mold under the fridge - in fact they have signed the mold prevention page which says they will work to remedy any and notify me of any - but this is simply a disclosure that states that I am not aware of any mold in the premises. I guess you could also say that I am aware that there is mold in their shower because I saw that the other day but that's because they don't clean it regularly. I'm not about to report that on the disclosure. Why would this be any different? Again, totally not trying to be a slumlord and am happy to take a look and remedy if needed. I just don't want this under the fridge potential mold to hold the lease back from being completed.
I am the handyman but I do have local friends who watch over the property and could stop in to take a look but, again, is that worth the favor or can I use this as an opportunity to educate/"train" the tenants???
Real Estate Broker · Fairfield, CT · Member since 2015 · 312 posts · 231 votes
11y
@Justin Tahilramani is right - if there IS mold starting under there, it is a much bigger problem for you than it is for your tenants! Specifically if left unchecked. So call someone - if you don't have anyone in mind, just jump onto amazon's new(ish) service site and pay someone the $50 to go take a look for you. They're great!
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 166 posts · 67 votes
11y
Point taken and I will absolutely have it looked at. It might take a week. In the meantime, I do not want this to hold up getting a lease that should have been signed a week ago off of my plate.
Rental Property Investor · Fayetteville, NC · Member since 2014 · 884 posts · 670 votes
11y
Have you ever seen a house that has been consumed by mold??? I have - an entire house that had mold growing though wall cavities. Its not something to take lightly. Definitely not trying to be dramatic, but it can be expensive if not addressed quickly.
I totally get that - I'm not trying to put off taking a look at the mold. I was just there 2 weeks ago and the house is not consumed by mold. In fact, it's beautiful (beside their shower walls). The rental is an upscale 2-flat. I'm more wondering how to handle them not signing the disclosure. They've held onto the lease for 2 weeks now and it's just a week away from beginning. I am the antsy type when it comes to re-signing and because of it (knock on mold free wood), we have a 0% vacancy rate.
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 166 posts · 67 votes
11y
It's not any sort of requirement. It's just an addendum to the lease where I acknowledge that I am not aware if there IS or IS NOT any mold. The separate prevention form that they've signed says that they'll let me know if conditions arise (ie noted tiny periodic leak) and that they have keep the place clear of mold and, if they don't, I can go after them.
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 166 posts · 67 votes
11y
Thanks guys. That's exactly what I just did. Here's what I wrote back:
As for the mold disclosure form, it just states that we do not know if there is or is not any mold on the premises. You have done your part in advising that there was a periodic leak under the fridge. I did not see any mold when I was in 2 weeks ago. Is the leak still happening? If so, how often and how much? Do you see any mold under the fridge?
I totally get that - I'm not trying to put off taking a look at the mold. I was just there 2 weeks ago and the house is not consumed by mold. In fact, it's beautiful (beside their shower walls). The rental is an upscale 2-flat. I'm more wondering how to handle them not signing the disclosure. They've held onto the lease for 2 weeks now and it's just a week away from beginning. I am the antsy type when it comes to re-signing and because of it (knock on mold free wood), we have a 0% vacancy rate.
Pictures seems like a logical and fair request. I would definitely give them a time limit to provide pictures and sign the form though...
Investor · Palm Desert, CA · Member since 2015 · 215 posts · 64 votes
11y
My advice is to give them notice to move as soon as possible, as you are giving them ammunition to sue you in the future on the grounds of mold/unlivable conditions. Do not be fooled into thinking that they are just a young couple who don't know any better; they probably have "friends" who know the loopholes and will gladly give them advice on how to get money from you or your insurance company. Please don't think I'm overstating or being melodramatic; I've been a landlord for going on 40 years and have learned to expect the worst. Insurance companies have created a growing cottage industry for tenants by handing out settlement money rather than going to court. I know, as it happened to me last year.
At the very least, these are tenants who are not capable of taking care of your property and who will not become more responsible just because you ask them to. Best thing would be if you could sell it, as it is so far from your location, but if that's not possible, I would suggest dealing with all issues you find and then getting more responsible tenants.
Also -- and this is for all landlords out there -- I suggest getting an Umbrella Policy; this only costs around $20/month and can give you additional peace of mind.
If you have any other questions, please feel free to write me. Best of luck to you.
Rental Property Investor · Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2014 · 249 posts · 81 votes
11y
I agree with @Steve Babiak pictures are step one. We have very long distance tenants that we text back and forth with and leverage the cameras on mobile phones regularly.
I totally get that - I'm not trying to put off taking a look at the mold. I was just there 2 weeks ago and the house is not consumed by mold. In fact, it's beautiful (beside their shower walls). The rental is an upscale 2-flat. I'm more wondering how to handle them not signing the disclosure. They've held onto the lease for 2 weeks now and it's just a week away from beginning. I am the antsy type when it comes to re-signing and because of it (knock on mold free wood), we have a 0% vacancy rate.
Investor · Palm Desert, CA · Member since 2015 · 215 posts · 64 votes
11y
If you haven't already completed the new lease with them, I would advise that you not do it. The fact that their letter to you asks for a mold inspection suggests to me that they have already become aware that mold can be used to leverage a legal case against you which stands to win them a considerable settlement from your insurance company. I would suggest instead giving them notice to move (tell them you've decided to sell, if you want; in California a landlord does not need to give a tenant any reason for notice but it may convince them a little more strongly).
Please don't think that this, my second reply to you on this forum, is meant to scare you; I have been doing this for almost 40 years and certainly don't know it all, but I have dealt with precisely this issue and I see the warning signs. There is never a reason to rush into a new lease; I know it's draining to have a property sitting empty but you may be far better off taking a small hit now and trying to get more responsible tenants for the future.
Do you have a local handy{wo}man? Have them go over to the unit and look under the fridge. Depending on the vintage of the fridge, the periodic leaking might be a full/over flowing defrost tray. While they are they, have them vacuum the coils (if it is an older fridge with the coils on the back) and under the fridge ... and then remind the tenant they should be doing this 2-4 times per year.
Alternatively, have them compile their service wish list and make a single visit to attend to it all.
Investor · Palm Desert, CA · Member since 2015 · 215 posts · 64 votes
11y
Life would be great if it worked that way, but I can assure you these young tenants are not going to do anything "2-4 times per year". Tenants, especially those who are not knowledgeable about properties, feel that they pay rent so their landlords will magically take care of everything, even issues the landlords are not aware of. I know it's hard to get good tenants who have some savvy, but sometimes it's better to take your time and try to find them rather than just keeping the rent coming in and then dealing with bigger problems down the road.
Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 166 posts · 67 votes
11y
I appreciate your advice @Maggie Tasseron. Without wanting to sound naive or dive into the litany of reasons why, I'm 99.999% sure that is not the case with them. There simply is no mold issue in the unit or the property, period. As noted, I've checked the area they're referring to recently and saw nothing. Furthermore, there are no mold laws in the state. The home is dry. There is a massive dehumidifier that effectively keeps the dampest part of the home (the 1926 era basement) at 50% humidity or less.
@Eric L. - the mold disclosure that you are talking about must be a regional requirement. I have never had to deal with that.
Justin: Here in California, a mold disclosure form as part of a lease is not a legal requirement but is certainly something I would not omit. I would suggest to any landlord in any state to have tenants sign this, along with a lead-based paint disclosure. These forms don't require you to confirm the absence of mold or lead paint, they just require you to state whatever awareness you have of these issues. Take a look at the forms online, if you are interested, and you'll see what I mean.
I appreciate your advice @Maggie Tasseron. Without wanting to sound naive or dive into the litany of reasons why, I'm 99.999% sure that is not the case with them. There simply is no mold issue in the unit or the property, period. As noted, I've checked the area they're referring to recently and saw nothing. Furthermore, there are no mold laws in the state. The home is dry. There is a massive dehumidifier that effectively keeps the dampest part of the home (the 1926 era basement) at 50% humidity or less.
Hi Eric: I was going to let this lie but it's been on my mind so my conscience has me writing to you again. I'm concerned that twice now on this forum, you have stated that "I am aware that there is mold" and "the shower "has plenty of...common shower mold". Although I know you're not a slumlord of some kind who has any bad intentions, this is exactly the kind of thing that can be used against you in court. I do hope you haven't made any statements of this kind to them directly. They may be completely innocent people who have no ill intentions toward you, but it is that .001% that can come back to bite you. Also, it's a bit naive to think that "that there are no mold laws in the state". Anyone can sue for almost anything, especially with the dam* insurance companies so eager to settle, and since I've been there/had it done to me I'm especially wary. I do hope I'm wrong and wish you all the best!