When should you lower rent to attract qualified tenants? Ever?

When should you lower rent to attract qualified tenants? Ever?

Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes

Background: My sister lives in MA, has owned a 2 family house for many years. Our mother lived in the apartment for 17, when she moved out sister used a broker to find tenants (when they had to leave - student visa expired) she used another broker to find new tenants who have been a nightmare. Both broker experiences have been horrible. Current tenants lost job and are going back to another state, she is gladly letting them out of their lease, property is available October 1. I live in VA.

Enter Bigger Pockets: I literally stumbled on the BP site a few months ago and though I want to get into the REI game, she is actually in it, so I told her to check out the website and that she could fill the apartment herself using info we learn from BP, and I could help her, remotely, from VA.

What I have done: I have followed all of the suggestions regarding tenant screening and had two showings to qualified parties, neither of whom followed through with process.  I created a wix.com website which is referred to in CL, Postlets, Zillow, etc postings           (www.40auburnst.wix.com/maldenma) (Also - I am not sharing this link as advertising - just to show what I did - mods, please delete if this a violation) which gives a detailed description of property and application process. I manage the inquiries from VA via Google Voice phone number and gmail account, she does the actually showings. I have had inquiries and followed up with approx 60 leads from zillow, 10 from CL, 5 from Trulia, 6 from Hot Pads. Only 10 of those conversations were from people who seemed genuinely qualified ( income 3 x rent, credit score=600+, etc) the rest seem to be relocating from Mars or something because they don't even read stuff like "how much is the rent"($1695/mo) or "No lead paint certificate".

Sister is FREAKING out: What do you suggest for a next move? Lower the rent and change the ads (I have told her that all advice from BP seems to be wait it out, better an empty month then a horrible tenant, esp if you live there too).  The rent seems from all indicators to be perfectly priced, I am afraid that lowering rent will just attract even more lesser qualified people.  She just wants it rented.  (It will show a lot better when empty of all of the, um, "stuff" belonging to current tenants.)

What do the experts suggest? Am I not turning over the right rock to find qualified people at this price point?  Or is it the time of year and too late for the current moving cycle? Any advice from people who have been there, done that would be greatly appreciated.  Also I have researched the legalities in MA (the worst state of all) regarding fair housing compliance, we won't do anything "shady".  Thanks!

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Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
11y

I don't agree that lowering the rent results in lower-quality tenants.  The opposite is usually true.

Smart people will try to get the best value they can.  The most apartment for the least money.  Well-qualified tenants have lots of choices, just like well-qualified car buyers can walk into any dealership and buy a car.  So people who will willingly pay at the top of the market for an apartment are usually doing so because they do not have a lot of choices.  Like a car buyer who has to buy at a "buy-here, pay-here" place.

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  • Residential Real Estate Broker · Portland, OR · Member since 2015 · 153 posts · 105 votes
    11y

    I can't see the ad, so don't know what you're doing, but the amount of interest you're getting would indicate your ad is fine - so you probably should lower the rent.  And I don't think I saw how long it's been listed for?  If it's sitting for more than 2 weeks, I'd lower the rent to $1650 to hit a different price point.  I don't see why you'd get less qualified people, esp if they're not reading the ad anyway.  

    Did you do an analysis to see what your competition is offering at your price point? 

  • Chris K.Pro Member
    Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 655 votes
    11y

    I don't really understand why she's freaking out, seems pretty normal. How long have you been looking for a tenant? Yes it would definitely be better to have it vacant than with a bad tenant. You said 10 of them seemed qualified, what happened with them?

  • Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Michell P.:

    I can't see the ad, so don't know what you're doing, but the amount of interest you're getting would indicate your ad is fine - so you probably should lower the rent.  And I don't think I saw how long it's been listed for?  If it's sitting for more than 2 weeks, I'd lower the rent to $1650 to hit a different price point.  I don't see why you'd get less qualified people, esp if they're not reading the ad anyway.  

    Did you do an analysis to see what your competition is offering at your price point? 

     The CL ad went live on 9/3, the rest within the next couple of days, so 15 days. By FAR the most responses have been from Zillow via Postlets, which we only learned about from BP. Sister does want to lower price, I think it will get more people who have some sort of voucher, most of them for a 2 BR seem to be around $1600, but lead paint is an issue, we state that upfront and they still ask "is there lead paint?"

  • Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Chris K.:

    I don't really understand why she's freaking out, seems pretty normal. How long have you been looking for a tenant? Yes it would definitely be better to have it vacant than with a bad tenant. You said 10 of them seemed qualified, what happened with them?

     Two parties came to look at it, seemed all excited about living there, took applications, were to get back to me, when I followed up, no reply.  Others have set up appointment and then left messages saying they would "reschedule" or "family problem" or no reason, and then not reply. A third party came with her prospective roommate, said they qualified, but application process showed otherwise - no where near the income. From all of the tools - her price is actually under current market and she is willing to lower the rent, but that would look even more attractive to people with vouchers and because of lead paint she would not qualify. Of course it could mean finding the perfect tenant who didn't apply before because of income qualification.

  • Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Lisa Hoyt Welcome to BP! You are correct and you are certainly doing everything correct. As a PM, sometimes I rent places out to the perfect tenant within 24 hours, sometimes, it seems to be lesser qualified tenants.  Keep her calm and patient and it will work out.

     Thanks Nick - I think because she actually lives there it is more stressful than if she lived somewhere else, more pressure to find good tenant without issues, noise, constant showers/laundry, etc.

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
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    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    11y

    You said:

    (It will show a lot better when empty of all of the, um, "stuff" belonging to current tenants.)

    I would suspect this has at least something to do with your problem. It is not the greatest time of year to find tenants, either, as most stable people move in late spring through the summer. 

    How much of the problem is actually your sister being dissatisfied with her potential neighbors? Being super picky is a good way to not have any tenants. I can honestly say that I see things at my tenant's houses that are not the way I would want to live, but as long as they're not doing damage to the property or creating a health hazard and/or nuisance for the neighborhood, or doing anything illegal, I don't say anything, and these are not low-income people.  

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  • Developer · Portland, OR · Member since 2014 · 732 posts · 490 votes
    11y

    Is the unit vacant right now? It could be the place doesn't show well with a lot of stuff cluttering it if it isn't. I agree that your response rate seems fine.

    As to your inquiries about lead based paint...don't bring that up during a property tour. You will need to disclose it but considering that so many places have lead based paint this isn't really something you need to highlight on a property tour. If they have kids then it's a nice heads up, but other wise there is a time and place for that. 

  • Springfield, MO · Member since 2014 · 252 posts · 117 votes
    11y

    I agree with most of what has been said but I have definitely found that when the old tenants "stuff" is still in the property, people have a hard time seeing past that and how their "stuff" would go in the unit.  A vacant, clean unit is always much easier for me to rent. A drop in the rent of $45 at this point in my opinion isn't going to do much.  It may get you some more interest but again if the old tenants haven't moved out then it will still be hard.

    Now is a bit tougher time of year now that schools are back in session but with it being a 2 bedroom you should still have some interest from those that don't have kids and are typically good to move at any time.

    When are they moving out?  

  • Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @JD Martin:

    You said:

    (It will show a lot better when empty of all of the, um, "stuff" belonging to current tenants.)

    I would suspect this has at least something to do with your problem. It is not the greatest time of year to find tenants, either, as most stable people move in late spring through the summer. 

    How much of the problem is actually your sister being dissatisfied with her potential neighbors? Being super picky is a good way to not have any tenants. I can honestly say that I see things at my tenant's houses that are not the way I would want to live, but as long as they're not doing damage to the property or creating a health hazard and/or nuisance for the neighborhood, or doing anything illegal, I don't say anything, and these are not low-income people.  

     I would say she is not super picky - she really liked 2 of the 3 applicants and could see them living there.  I think lack of non-street parking is an issue, but this is common in the area.  Her current tenants are not at all slovenly, just have a lot of (nice) stuff, literally stuffed in there.  Like the contents of a house, shoved into a 2 BR apartment. I think it would show BEAUTIFULLY - empty.

  • Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Neal Collins:

    Is the unit vacant right now? It could be the place doesn't show well with a lot of stuff cluttering it if it isn't. I agree that your response rate seems fine.

    As to your inquiries about lead based paint...don't bring that up during a property tour. You will need to disclose it but considering that so many places have lead based paint this isn't really something you need to highlight on a property tour. If they have kids then it's a nice heads up, but other wise there is a time and place for that. 

     Current tenants are moving out "by the end of the month".  I have asked her to clarify that with them.

    As for lead paint, MA is uber picky about how that is disclosed and most ads for pre 1978 construction state whether they have a lead certificate or not.  Having a certificate seems to be code for "we take section 8", you would think that not having one would imply NO section 8, but it doesn't seem to work that way.

  • Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Aaron Wyssmann:

    I agree with most of what has been said but I have definitely found that when the old tenants "stuff" is still in the property, people have a hard time seeing past that and how their "stuff" would go in the unit.  A vacant, clean unit is always much easier for me to rent. A drop in the rent of $45 at this point in my opinion isn't going to do much.  It may get you some more interest but again if the old tenants haven't moved out then it will still be hard.

    Now is a bit tougher time of year now that schools are back in session but with it being a 2 bedroom you should still have some interest from those that don't have kids and are typically good to move at any time.

    When are they moving out?  

     They are moving out before October 1, I have asked her to clarify exact date with them.

    She wants me to drop the rent to $1575 ASAP and relist and hope she has a bigger pool of interest of qualified people. I asked her to have a Plan B ready, and if it still doesn't rent,  to plan on cleaning it up and having open houses starting the first weekend of October and consider the loss of one month's rent as part of the learning curve. (Apparently she could have listed in August but talked to a broker who convinced her it was too early to list.  So she waited until September, told me about it right when I started following BP and so here we are...)

  • Rocklin, CA · Member since 2015 · 207 posts · 66 votes
    11y

    Thats A HUGE DROP I would drop it $45 to 1650 for two weeks if traffic still seems to be low then drop it another 50 to 1600. I have drop the rent $25 before and it Made all the difference and I got overrun with applicants.

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    I don't agree that lowering the rent results in lower-quality tenants.  The opposite is usually true.

    Smart people will try to get the best value they can.  The most apartment for the least money.  Well-qualified tenants have lots of choices, just like well-qualified car buyers can walk into any dealership and buy a car.  So people who will willingly pay at the top of the market for an apartment are usually doing so because they do not have a lot of choices.  Like a car buyer who has to buy at a "buy-here, pay-here" place.

  • Rocklin, CA · Member since 2015 · 207 posts · 66 votes
    11y

    Well Stated @Richard C. 

    Couldn't agree with you more.

  • Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Stephen Haynes:

    Thats A HUGE DROP I would drop it $45 to 1650 for two weeks if traffic still seems to be low then drop it another 50 to 1600. I have drop the rent $25 before and it Made all the difference and I got overrun with applicants.

     I am totally with you on this, but it's her house and she has to make the call that she can live with.  I really wanted her to wait it out, clean it up and I am SURE she can get what she wants.  But the risk of losing one month's rent is too traumatic to even think about.  She is dropping 6k tomorrow to convert from oil to gas heat, so her costs right now are scaring her.

    Waiting 2 weeks with a lower price would still mean it was empty on October 1 which is her self imposed deadline for rental.  But if it was empty, and she cleaned it up, I am sure she could get more $$.  A conundrum.  Thanks for your input!

  • Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Richard C.:

    I don't agree that lowering the rent results in lower-quality tenants.  The opposite is usually true.

    Smart people will try to get the best value they can.  The most apartment for the least money.  Well-qualified tenants have lots of choices, just like well-qualified car buyers can walk into any dealership and buy a car.  So people who will willingly pay at the top of the market for an apartment are usually doing so because they do not have a lot of choices.  Like a car buyer who has to buy at a "buy-here, pay-here" place.

     Sister is with you on this.  She is thrifty by nature, always looking for the best deal, so she is hopeful that she will attract like minded people looking for value, and she will have more of a qualified field of choices.  Thanks for weighing in on this.  Do you think I have reached out enough advertising?  Am I missing some other avenue?  The local papers don't seem to have an impact, we have had LOTS of inquiries via Zillow, Trulia, CL and HotPads.  Am I missing something?

  • Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Stephen Haynes:

    Well Stated @Richard C. 

    Couldn't agree with you more.

     Thanks for your input.  Sister agrees with you too. And it's her house.

  • Rocklin, CA · Member since 2015 · 207 posts · 66 votes
    11y

    Lowering the rent as much as she is thinking about lowering it to is a big mistake. If she has already had some inquiries about the property already she will be overwhelmed by the amount of traffic a $100+ drop in rent will bring. Good luck Keep us informed with her final decision. 

  • Bedford, NH · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    $1695 is not outrageous for Malden, but there are certainly cheaper options.  So you need to at least consider price.

    One thing I think you should look at, if you have had people interested enough to come look but decline to rent, is how your sister interacts with prospective tenants.  Do you advertise the house as owner-occupied?  For many, that is a plus.  But for many others, a definite negative.  So if they show up not realizing the owner lives on-site, and get a lot of intrusive-seeming questions, they may be turned off.  In the past, your sister has had a third party in between her and the prospective tenant to prevent this sort of problem.

  • Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2015 · 100 posts · 59 votes
    11y

    "But the risk of losing one month's rent is too traumatic to even think about."

    Ummm, vacancies happen. If there is this much stress with churning the unit perhaps she should think about selling? It sounds like she is not cut out for being a landlord.

    I do not see much of a conundrum here. I would wait until the tenants moved out. Then give it a thorough scrub and perhaps even paint. Then show it for higher rent. 

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Allen Clark:

    "But the risk of losing one month's rent is too traumatic to even think about."

    Ummm, vacancies happen. If there is this much stress with churning the unit perhaps she should think about selling? It sounds like she is not cut out for being a landlord.

    I do not see much of a conundrum here. I would wait until the tenants moved out. Then give it a thorough scrub and perhaps even paint. Then show it for higher rent. 

     This is a good point. An overall vacancy rate of 8-12% isn't really unusual in the grand scheme of things. It sounds like she had more than 17 years of no vacancy, so she is due. 

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  • Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Richard C.:

    $1695 is not outrageous for Malden, but there are certainly cheaper options.  So you need to at least consider price.

    One thing I think you should look at, if you have had people interested enough to come look but decline to rent, is how your sister interacts with prospective tenants.  Do you advertise the house as owner-occupied?  For many, that is a plus.  But for many others, a definite negative.  So if they show up not realizing the owner lives on-site, and get a lot of intrusive-seeming questions, they may be turned off.  In the past, your sister has had a third party in between her and the prospective tenant to prevent this sort of problem.

     This is an excellent point.  She is going to ask a friend to assist with showings to give her a little more distance and not seem like a job interview.  And the reaction of on site landlord has been totally mixed from "awesome" to "I have never lived with a landlord onsite".

  • Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Allen Clark:

    "But the risk of losing one month's rent is too traumatic to even think about."

    Ummm, vacancies happen. If there is this much stress with churning the unit perhaps she should think about selling? It sounds like she is not cut out for being a landlord.

    I do not see much of a conundrum here. I would wait until the tenants moved out. Then give it a thorough scrub and perhaps even paint. Then show it for higher rent. 

     You and I think alike.  It was her conundrum, not mine. Just that it's her house. I really appreciate your input.

  • Salem, VA · Member since 2015 · 42 posts · 7 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @JD Martin:
    Originally posted by @Allen Clark:

    "But the risk of losing one month's rent is too traumatic to even think about."

    Ummm, vacancies happen. If there is this much stress with churning the unit perhaps she should think about selling? It sounds like she is not cut out for being a landlord.

    I do not see much of a conundrum here. I would wait until the tenants moved out. Then give it a thorough scrub and perhaps even paint. Then show it for higher rent. 

     This is a good point. An overall vacancy rate of 8-12% isn't really unusual in the grand scheme of things. It sounds like she had more than 17 years of no vacancy, so she is due. 

     I agree, and our mother was grossly underpaying so she's trying to make up for lost time, but doesn't want to be "greedy".  I also just told her she should look at the real numbers/cost of doing business as a part of her pricing, not just the comps (which are generally higher).  Bottom line, she wants a tenant who pays and doesn't need her to interact with them unless they happen to be going in or out at the same time. Friendly neighbors.

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Neal Collins:

    Is the unit vacant right now? It could be the place doesn't show well with a lot of stuff cluttering it if it isn't. I agree that your response rate seems fine.

    As to your inquiries about lead based paint...don't bring that up during a property tour. You will need to disclose it but considering that so many places have lead based paint this isn't really something you need to highlight on a property tour. If they have kids then it's a nice heads up, but other wise there is a time and place for that. 

    Isn't lead paint just a disclosure issue upon signing a lease with S8.  S8 doesn't require a totally remediated property. It's unusual to find an older property without lead paint underneath other layers. Properties pass inspections all the time as long as there is no peeling or chipping paint. 

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