Investor · Woodbridge, VA · Member since 2015 · 476 posts · 197 votes
I have been a part of BP for over a year now and have been a smoker since I was way to young, but my question is when did smokers get such a bad rap?
I personally don't smoke inside of even my own home, not even once. I did it at the first place I lived because it was already a smokers house, and realized that its a no go. I know many smokers who are not "trashy" people and there might be 1% who smoke inside and they all own their own homes. These people wouldn't even consider smoking inside of someone else's home or place of business.
Why does every LL on here it seems think that if someone smokes they will do it inside of their residence, no if ands or butts? (pun intended) The only people I know who do smoke inside tend to be either shut-ins or (how do I say this without being rude?) very low class. Do people think we have no self control? We are all just "junkies" fending for that next fix? You want to know what I do when its really cold and I don't want to go outside to smoke? I just don't smoke, or I suck it us and step out on to the back porch. As far as cigarette butts go I keep a nice little vase I bought for about $7 from Wal-Mart right next to my front and back doors and empty it weekly.
So where did the bad rap come from? People still rent to low-income and know they have a higher propensity of trashing a place but don't let that stop them, yet if someone who make good money and has a steady job smokes all of the sudden they are definitely a no go to rent too. I just don't get it.
A little steamed from that other thread about smoking? ;-)
I do think some people take it a bit far, but many LLs also are very anti-pets. In the end, it is their property, so they'll do what they want, but they also could be missing out on a great tenant.
I do not allow smoking in my units and have in my lease that there is a $15 fee as additional rent for each butt I find in the yard any time. Not sure if this is collectible or not as I haven't had to test it, because as you know, smokers aren't bad people. I know many times they do come outside to smoke because I'll be driving the area and happen to drive past (2 of my properties are on a fairly busy road) and see them sitting on the front porch having a smoke.
However, I have had some of my tenants smoke inside. One girl even knew I was coming to the property yet was smoking and when I knocked on her door, I could hear her spraying air freshener while I stood in the hall waiting for her to answer. I called her out on it. She's a great tenant otherwise, and I wouldn't call her "low-class." But she got lazy. I wouldn't doubt if she's continued to smoke inside.
But as long as things aren't damaged, I'm happy. I go over there and generally, it smells just fine and the place looks great! And I'm not a smoker, so I "can smell."
Great thread. I too was originally surprised how strongly anti-smoker BP seems to be. But after reading this thread it makes more sense.
Long ago my wife and I lived in a MF apartment. Our neighbor smoked in her unit. We could literally tell when she lit up. I have no idea how the smell got through (electrical conduit? ) but it was distinctly noticeable.
This was not *the* reason we didn't renew, but was one of them.
As for vapes, I don't see a problem - no butts, no burns, no stink. I've hung out with friends vaping indoors and couldn't smell it.
@Cheryl Daniels in a multi-family situation smoking indoors is definitely a killer for getting quality people in. Maybe you could consider offering them a solution such as a covered area outside with butt can's and a place to sit like a bench and they will be more likely to not smoke in the home even when the weather is not so great.
But either way stick to your guns on no smoking inside and if they continue to do so, give em the boot.
Wow, this has turned into quite an impressive thread!
Most of my experience in the real estate industry is from the point of a Realtor, and as such, I must say that it is certainly more difficult to sell a property that has even a hint of cigarette smell. Not only do the properties tend to sit on the market much longer, but they also sell for less than a comparable property that has no residual odors. Smoking inside a property is very detrimental to it's value.
Like many homeowners, I bought my first house in 2007 when I was too broke to afford it, but the banks were eager to lend anyway. It had been owned by a "careful" smoker - he only smoked in the master bathroom. He passed away and his kids inherited the property, who then sold it to me. The house sat vacant for almost 2 years before I acquired it, but it still had a stale smoke smell to it. The previous owner did an excellent job of making sure that there were no burn marks on carpets or counter tops. To help eliminate the smells, we replaced 3/4 of the carpet with tile and re-carpeted the bedrooms. A few coats of paint, some open windows and some air fresheners did their best to further reduce the odors. It took quite a while for all of the residual smell to leave the house. The worst part though, was the master bathroom.. for almost 2 years the walls and ceilings bled brown stains through any coats of paint that we added. The house is finally smoke free, but it took considerable effort.
As I said before, at the time I was too broke to afford the property, so over the years I rented rooms out to my friends in order to make ends meet. All of them were smokers, so we made it a policy that they had to smoke outside, but in the case of inclement weather they could smoke in the garage. This seemed to work out fairly well. There was of course, a little bit of smoke that came in through windows, and trailed behind them as they came inside but it was fairly tolerable. When each of them was ready to move out, it was their job to wander about the yard and pick up any cigarette butts that were laying around. I would venture to say that if I was fairly certain that a smoker tenant would treat the property as my friends had, I wouldn't have any issue renting to them.
On a side note, I have absolutely no hesitation renting to a vaper. I smoked cigarettes for 16 years and vaping is what allowed me to finally quit. I slowly backed the nicotine level down to 0. I still vape and consider myself a vaping enthusiast, although I now do it for "clouds and flavor" as opposed to getting a nicotine fix. Despite my love for vaping, I will be the first to admit that vaping isn't perfect. Vaping is not truly odorless. I can walk into a room where somebody has vaped within the last few minutes and tell you what flavor was in their PV by the smell. The smells dissipate very quickly though. Another misconception is that vapor simply vanishes into thin air without leaving a residue. This would probably be true if the vapor was truly just water, but the primary ingredients in e-juice are propylene glycol and vegetable glycerin, both of which are actually a very thin oil. These can leave a very slight film on windows, floors, etc, but it wipes away very easily with a dry cloth. It should be noted that it takes pretty heavy vaping to cause this though. Darker e-juices can stain carpet if spilled, but this is probably less of a risk than a kid spilling juice on the carpet and can usually be cleaned out with some dish detergent. Furthermore, vaping may be the tenants salvation from cigarettes, which shows that they either have quit or are trying to quit. The reason most vapers get into vaping is because they are tired of their things smelling like smoke.
Another topic that I saw brought up is not allowing tenants or their guests to smoke in their car in the parking lot. I would advise a bit of caution with enforcing this policy in the "common areas". The laws governing this vary from state to state and it would be wise to understand them before enforcing any policies regarding them. As an example, here in the State of New Mexico, a car is considered an extension of a person's residence. Here a person can have a firearm in their car in the parking lot of a school even though the school is a firearm free zone, since the car is considered "extension of residence" by New Mexico laws. Could the guest of a tenant sit in the parking lot of an apartment complex and smoke a cigarette in their "extension of residence"? I don't know the legal answer. To muddy the waters further, can you restrict the tenant from smoking in their car even when it is not in the property, since it is an "extension of residence" and the residence falls under your policies? If I pull into the parking lot of a pet free apartment complex to pickup a friend and my dog is in the car with me, can his landlord hold him accountable? I guess where I am going with this is that these issues can be looked at from either side and while some may be more silly than others, it is really up to the individual landlord to determine the strictness of their policies and to decide where they want to draw their lines. I would highly recommend consulting with an attorney in your area before finalizing any decisions as to smoking outside of the residential structures.
I do like the idea of using smoked in properties to fill a niche market to other smokers. Other smokers will be far more tolerant of the smells and willing to pay more for the "luxury" of not having to go outside. I recommend checking with your insurance carrier about the way this may affect insurance rates and adjusting the rent accordingly. It might also be a good idea to check with a local Realtor to see how much it will affect the property value, just in case you had to liquidate the property for some reason.
In conclusion:
1. Being upfront with your tenants as to your expectations and having written, vetted policies will go a long way.
2. Even though a property may belong to you, tenants occupying it will have certain rights that may vary from state to state and it would be important to fully understand the ones in your area.
3. Providing smokers with a designated smoking area may go a long way towards preventing smoke damage to the areas that you wish to preserve.
4. As far as I can tell, vaping is not likely to cause damage to a property or be detrimental to it's value.
5. You should have an insurance agent, a Realtor and an attorney on your "team" that can help you out.. but you guys already knew that right? :-)
Disclaimer: These are my personal views and opinions and in no way do they represent the views or opinions of Keller Williams Realty.
@Joel Belding Wow, that was quite the post! Thank you for taking the time to share your views. I definitely think you're right when it goes to telling people that they can't smoke in their cars, although if they throw the cigarette butts on the ground I can see where that could be a violation.