Section 8: Do you rent to Section 8 or Not?

Section 8: Do you rent to Section 8 or Not?

Investor/Property Manager · Suwanee, GA · Member since 2014 · 93 posts · 40 votes

Hi all,

I own many properties in Atlanta, GA and over the years have had many Section 8 tenants. Not all were a disaster, but the paperwork and the unreasonable inspection demands have finally got me down and we stopped renting to section 8. However, we still have a few properties that are Section 8 occupied. Over the years, we've had several expensive and negative experiences with the voucher program occupants and in the last month, one of our section 8 tenants has moved out. Now, we knew what to expect as we did an inspection prior to releasing them from the lease, communicated all that with the Section 8 program (they lost their voucher after their case worker so the video and the pictures), but still...I don't wont to be so negative and deny potentially "decent" people a good house to live in, but look at the pictures below!

We did the thorough screening, called references, checked on the property twice a year and interim maintenance reports, but I am still flabbergasted. The property is destroyed! At least $35,000 worth of damage (we are licensed builders and that would be our cost to repair). I didn't even know which photos to show you. Every single square inch of this property is like this. All the new tiles are broken, all the vanities that were brand new are destroyed, all new appliances are gone, cabinets - destroyed, stairs - need re-carpeting!

My thought is, I must have done something wrong somewhere! Don't know where and of course, at this point don't even want to hear the word Section 8 tenants.

Guys, what did I do wrong? What else could I have done to prevent this? Most of this damage occurred in the last 4 months, since we were there before and didn't see any of it.

What do you think? Do you rent to section 8 tenants? Did anything like this ever happen to you? What can I do to prevent this? I'm disgusted, shocked (mostly at the audacity of the lifestyle), angry at myself, my partner, my guys - just about at everybody, but mostly at section 8.

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Dawn AnastasiPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y

I have just one Section 8 tenant and so far there's been no issues.  I've been in the house multiple times.  The carpet is nice and she has everyone take off their shoes when they come in the house.  Not everyone is like that.

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  • Professional · Seffner, FL · Member since 2015 · 49 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    I have had similar experiences with Sec 8 tenants.  The last one I had, forged a reference letter from me for the next landlord.  

    I have a friend that LOVES Sec 8 rentals, that is all he does.  He always tells me the trick is to rent to people that don't have a voucher large enough to pay the entire rent.  That way they still have to get out of the house and go to work.

    I empathize with you.  Animals should live outside.

  • Investor · Jonesboro, AR · Member since 2015 · 241 posts · 132 votes
    10y
    Warning: not a politically correct comment and not meant to be harsh. There's a reason why landlords that rent to section 8 are called slum lords. You mention new this and new that, that is the wrong term to use on a section 8 house. I made the mistake of overbuilding in the hood and had the same results. People that don't pay their own bills are not responsible and won't take care of anything. Now to be fair there are some people on section 8 that are good and responsible, but their few and far between. What I personally do is not only screen then using standard methods, but look at their online presence, Facebook,Instagram, ect... If they talk like a gangster, look like a gangster, walk like a gangster, then they must be and you don't want them in your house. I realize you probably know all of this, but it's my thoughts. The last thing I'll say is in the future focus44 on preventive maintenance, ex. You know their going to slam your doors open, so put door stops behind each doorknob, not at the top, or bottom as it will split the door. Good luck to you!!
  • Investor · Perkasie, PA · Member since 2015 · 7 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    Some suggestions, as we are going through this right now.

    1. As SOON as you see the place going down hill, FILE for eviction. This is what FINALLY lit a fire under our Section 8 tenants who did very similar damage to our house. We are in the depths of this right now as we write this. She is making every effort, finally, to fix the gigantic mess so she doesn't lose her Golden Ticket. We go back up there tomorrow to see how she is coming along, but we are prepared to follow through with the eviction. The judge granted her a continuance to get more cleaned up and repaired.

    2. Never carpet the steps or hallways, and maybe not even the bedrooms. they will only get trashed!! Find the most durable floor covering out there and stick with that. The Commercial Vinyl Tiles are good for this use.

    Good luck to you and wish us luck as we are going through the exact same thing right now, but at least she is trying to clean up the mess.

    -Barb E

  • Investor/Landlord · Farmington Hills, MI · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    When you accept Section 8 you are partnering with the Government. It is a very unequal partnership. The housing authority may violate their own policies and you will have little recourse. If there is ever a dispute you will lose. If you ever need to collect damages from a tenant you will be unlikely to. I believe there are two types of landlords: those who refuse Section 8 and those who will soon refuse Section 8.

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    I have just one Section 8 tenant and so far there's been no issues.  I've been in the house multiple times.  The carpet is nice and she has everyone take off their shoes when they come in the house.  Not everyone is like that.

  • Investor/Property Manager · Suwanee, GA · Member since 2014 · 93 posts · 40 votes
    10y

    Everyone, thank you. We don't generally rent to Section 8, but we do have 3 properties. This WAS one of them. Even though we could rent it out to non-section 8 people. Thank you BarbaryElchinn for the idea wit the linoleum. I might have it put in everywhere this time around. We generally do tile (it lasts for almost forever, just not in this case).

    Thanks to all for the suggestions and support. 

    I think that for a LONG while, I'll stay away from Section 8. Not my favorite people. I never wanted to be a "slum lord" and don't really want to deal with the slackers.

    Btw, the section 8 lady who I rented to was a grandmother with 3 grand kids! Polite, quite, respectful. She did loose her section 8 after this.

    Marina

  • Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    We did one Section 8 family for about six years.  And yes, dad was working.  Perhaps the biggest issue was their almost adult female children who began popping out children like they were PEZ dispensers and dropping them off with mom and dad to raise.

    The Section 8 program also hired a new inspector who began to nit pick during inspections.  When the house failed because the tenants failed to clean the bathtub of mildew (and he listed it as the dreaded "mold") and the drip pans under the range needed to be replaced, guess who had to do this.  Not the tenants.  The landlord.  When he cited that the hall ceiling needed to be repainted, guess who spent the weekend doing this while the tenants sat and watched TV.  At that point we bowed out of the program.

    When the tenants moved out (with no written notice of course..and no rent for that month) they claimed no damages,  ignoring the 24 bags of garbage, the three broken appliances, the broken furniture and the unplugged but still half filled chest freezer (gag) of food they left behind (poor people tend to save EVERYTHING even broken stuff).

    The irony of these poor folks with their adult daughters who appeared to produce children with anyone they dated and no one seemed to question six grand children with six different last names is that mom and dad were supposedly very active in their church.  Guess this didn't include teaching the importance of abstinence prior to marriage.

    Will we ever do Section 8 again?  Nope...


    Gail

  • Investor · Hattiesburg, MS · Member since 2014 · 280 posts · 98 votes
    10y

    @Marina Shlomov

    Thank you for the read.  So sad, worked on a subdivision of rentals, half owner let in section 8, tenants were difficult at times, inspector was wishy washy, in the end all the units were in horrible shape and they were let go back to the bank.  Thankfully I saw the result of another persons misfortune. 

  • Bill ThompsonPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Jamaica Plain, MA · Member since 2015 · 60 posts · 88 votes
    10y

    I am curious as to whether Marina secured the maximum allowable security deposit from the Section 8 tenant.  I won't rent to any tenant without a full security deposit.  Most of my tenants are unsubsidized, but I find that tenants on the lower end of income spectrum tend to better care of unit because of the security deposit.  They need that money back!  The Section 8 tenant typically pays the security deposit out of their own pocket so this is a good way to make sure they have some skin in the game.

    Another thought is market to Section 8 tenants that work for a living.  I hate to generalize but I find there is a big distinction folks who need financial assistance because they have a low wage job and those that are completely dependent on the government.... accountability mindset vs. entitlement mindset.  I pull credit reports on all applicants, including Section 8.  Why pull the credit report since the Section 8 tenant pays only a small portion of the rent?  The answer is I want to see a pattern of accountability.  Bad credit typically means denied application for my units. 

  • Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes
    10y
    When renting to section 8, keep in mind the following phrases: " really nice cages" " security deposit"
  • Investor · Sammamish, WA · Member since 2013 · 94 posts · 84 votes
    10y
    I used to have over 20 Section 8 tenants, but am down to 12 now. I've stopped taking any new ones as I've had the same difficulties as yourself. So through attrition I'm letting them go. Working with the government can be very frustrating. Our local housing authority is severely understaffed, so it makes it even harder to work with.
  • Investor/Property Manager · Suwanee, GA · Member since 2014 · 93 posts · 40 votes
    10y

    We actually have only 3 properties that we accept Section 8 into, the rest of the properties we won't allow Section 8 tenants. Yes, we collected the full deposit the tenant, but that doesn't help when there is over $35K in damages. Needless to say, we won't accept any more section 8 into any of our properties, so that only leaves us 2 section 8 tenants.

    And, we have done the same thing, We are slowly but surely letting go of all section 8, the government is too difficult to deal with. We had one instance where the inspector took off half a month of rent because there was a spot of missing paint on the ceiling (which was there when the tenant moved in and the spot was the size of a quarter). It's frustrating, their rents are lower then the market, and the tenants are not appreciative of the opportunities they have. With that being said, we did have a few "normal" section 8 tenants that kept the house clean, took care of the yard and reported maintenance issues promptly, but that didn't happen as often as the other side where they didn't take care of anything.

    I have always felt that it wasn't a good idea with the section 8 program, but now, since I've read everyone's comments, I am happy to say that the decision is made and we won't accept Section 8 tenants any longer.

    I was feeling somewhat guilty for thinking the way I did, but now, with my anger subsiding a bit, the guilt is gone.

    Thank you everyone!

  • Property Manager · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2015 · 6 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    We have had multiple renters over the years in a section 8 program and we have found it to be a very difficult in most cases.  The program has many faults with in it when it comes to single family homes and has been a HUGE headache.  Yes, there are truly many people out there that need assistance, but this program needs to be completely overhauled and not abused.  Just my thoughts.

  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    People are People; Tenants are Tenants - - something like a "Box full of chocolates".

    I don't like Section 8 because they takeover the terms and conditions of my lease.

    I am the owner / operator and Uncle Sam can do as they please with HUD.

    No disrespect to those disadvantaged, but with little or no cash at risk, I don't need gov 

    subsidies and interference to "help me" with my cash flows.  If I issue a "3day pay or quit", I don't need some arbitrator in the process.

  • Investor/Property Manager · Suwanee, GA · Member since 2014 · 93 posts · 40 votes
    10y

    Thank you everyone for your input. I've been debating the issue for a while. As a person, I want to help. As a business person, I don't want to have anything to do with Section 8. This is actually the second house that got destroyed by Section 8 tenants. A few years ago, we had about 10 section 8 tenants, now, we are down to 2 and seriously considering not renewing their leases. My only caveat with that, the properties are in a predominantly section 8 area. I am not sure if I find non-section 8 tenants, We'll see how it goes. None of my other properties accept Section 8 now and won't in the future. 

    Marina

  • Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Marina...I understand your concern about finding non-section 8 tenants in predominantly section-8 neighborhoods.

    The house I described is in a neighborhood with a majority of section 8 tenants although there are some landlords who are working hard to focus on expanding the rental pool.  We're still working on the house I described (tenants left in July), partly to fix the damages they left behind and to expand the master bathroom, replace the kitchen counters, repaint the entire house, lay down new flooring, etc. etc. etc..    I've built privacy fencing in the back to hide the junky couple of young guys next door whose idea of yard ornaments are beer cans and old tires.   

    But as we keep pouring money and sweat equity into this place (and especially when I drove over after work last week and saw when I'm betting were two guys on the corner waiting for customers for their drugs) I'm wondering if anyone that's not section-8 will even consider living in the area.

    Gail

  • Investor/Property Manager · Suwanee, GA · Member since 2014 · 93 posts · 40 votes
    10y

    @Gail Kaitschuck, you are right, you don't know. I think when we were all buying up those properties, we weren't quite aware of what we had in store for us. Even though, we've had success in other similar neighborhoods. Know now, what I should have known when we bought, I never would have bought in those areas, as a matter of fact, we only have a few properties (due to not-so-good advice from our realtors), but we figured out quickly where not to go. I've had non-section 8 tenants in that particular property before as the neighborhood is pretty decent, so I hope I can do it again. My other thought is to sell it, but sense I'm renovating this property twice (same idea, flooring, cabinets, vanities, paint, garage door, windows, etc.) I need to recoup my investment into the project. So, we'll be keeping this one for a bit longer. It actually rents for around $1200 per month, so two years to recoup the costs, then hopefully, it'll appreciate some more and sell it. There are landlords who are better equipped at dealing with these types of tenants and neighborhoods, I am just not one of them.

    Thanks for sharing your story. It helps to know that my feelings on this topic are justified.

    Marina

  • Investor · Crosby, TX · Member since 2014 · 124 posts · 72 votes
    10y

    I have never had a good experience renting to section 8 voucher holders, ever. As someone else mentioned, they and uncle sam dictate the terms of the lease, not the landlord. I have even had a voucher holder come to my newly rehabbed property and give me the "white glove" test and tell me that they wont pay full market rent because my house wont pass the "housing" inspection. Whatever. Fortunately for now, we have the option not to lease our property to them. However, there is a trend that I have been keeping up with. The city of Austin passed an ordnance making section 8 voucher holders a protected class of people.

    http://www.taahp.org/section-8-voucher-holders-protected-from-discrimination/

  • Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    There is a strange marketing concept and with the right Curb Appeal and unit conditions,

    "Asking for more draws a better client".  It's setting a level of expectation both up and down.  The Sec 8 folks respond with "I can't afford that" and the better tenant sees, "this one should be nice".  It's all marketing the units properly.

  • Investor/Property Manager · Suwanee, GA · Member since 2014 · 93 posts · 40 votes
    10y

    @J Beard

    We've tried that, bu the property just sits and doesn't rent out, which costs us more lost profits in the long run. The area where this particular property is located is mostly section 8 renters. We do have a few other properties that aren't rented out to section 8, but its 50/50. Literally, 3 units - section 8 and 3 units regular. I don't know what we were thinking when we bought in that area. We certainly won't buy and haven't bought the area again. Too much headache.

  • Washington , DC · Member since 2016 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    In Washington DC, do you have to accept Section 8 money?

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Stephanie Younger:

    In Washington DC, do you have to accept Section 8 money?

     Yes

  • Washington , DC · Member since 2016 · 19 posts · 0 votes
    10y

    t Does the government force you to accept Section 8 money?

  • Rich N.Pro Member
    Investor · Haverhill, MA · Member since 2015 · 761 posts · 328 votes
    10y

    Some states have section 8 as a protected class and therefore must make every effort to show the unit and rent it to them UNLESS you have a better tenant.  Most important thing is to be able to prove to the government that you evaluate all perspective tenants in the same manner.

    For instance, you can't post you accept dogs or bad credit is no problem and then turn around and tell a section 8 applicant that they are not getting the unit because they have a dog or bad credit.  The applicant will then claim its because its their section 8 voucher and the government will come down hard on you.

  • Russell BrazilBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Agent · Washington, D.C. · Member since 2012 · 17k+ posts · 30k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Stephanie Younger:

    t Does the government force you to accept Section 8 money?

     Yes. Source of income is a protected class under DC Fair Housing laws. Refusing to rent to someone based on their section 8 status is no different than refusing to rent to someone based on race, religion, age etc.

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