tenant in jail before he can give me forwarding address

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tenant in jail before he can give me forwarding address

Brandon McCombs

Homeowner · Fairmont, WV · Member since 2014 · 95 posts · 19 votes

Hello,

I have a tenant and rental unit in Ohio. My tenant moved out Nov 30 and said when I'm ready to return his security deposit he will give me a forwarding address at that time since he doesn't know where he will be by then. I had told him I have 30 days per Ohio law to return his deposit. Well, on Monday of this week (12/14) I was called by the police chief of the next town up the river who left me a voicemail stating that my tenant was now in jail (I don't have all the details yet). The question is how long do I have to wait before claiming the deposit as income or do I have to keep it in my security deposit bank account forever until he contacts me given the circumstances?

The relevant Ohio law is here http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/5321.16 It only mentions I have 30 days and that's assuming the tenant provides the needed information to me. I'm assuming that I can wait 30 days and then count it as income. I'd like to hear others' thoughts on the matter though.

thanks

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Most Popular Reply

Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 880 votes

Tenant is required to give you a forwarding address - but don't assume a time limit here. If he's in jail and you know which one, then send him his security deposit to the prison via certified mail. If he's owed less money for damages, etc, then you take that out of the deposit, but include a letter with the check so there is an accounting of the finances. Ultimately, it's a security that you held on his behalf to cover finalizing the terms of the lease. Just because he's in jail currently doesn't mean you get out of returning his money.

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Jerry W.Pro Member
Moderator
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
Just get the mailing information for the jail and send it to him. People get jail mail all the time.
2 Reply
Benjamin Timmins
Landlord · Utica, MI · Member since 2015 · 190 posts · 99 votes
10y
LOL no, you can't count it as income.
0 Reply
Brandon McCombs
OP
Homeowner · Fairmont, WV · Member since 2014 · 95 posts · 19 votes
10y
@Benjamin Timmins You say that like it is obvious. Care to elaborate as to WHY? If I can't send it anywhere then what else do I do with it? I can try Jerry's advice but short of that, what else is there?
0 Reply
Benjamin Timmins
Landlord · Utica, MI · Member since 2015 · 190 posts · 99 votes
10y
You just have to hold onto it, or file a claim in court for abandonment. Security deposits are never the landlords cash, its just cash in escrow to protect against damages. Never is meant for income.
2 Reply
Benjamin Timmins
Landlord · Utica, MI · Member since 2015 · 190 posts · 99 votes
10y
Realistically, you can just hold on to it, wait out his jail time, see if he comes for it after he gets out, if he's going to jail he's probably not the brightest bulb, but if he does, you'll have a court case on your hands if he decides to pursue it.
Being in jail would count as extenuating circumstances, and depending on how liberal the court is where you are at, you will be forced to give it to him.
0 Reply
Kathy Johnson
Real Estate Professional · Hayfork, CA · Member since 2015 · 231 posts · 212 votes
10y
Send the deposit money balance to the last known address and if he has mail forwarded it will get to him. If he doesn't have forwarding setup, and the deposit letter is returned to you, put it in your file unopened so you can produce it if you should be sued for the deposit later.
2 Reply
George P.
Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
well, hold on... doesn't it count as if he never provided a forwarding address? they have something like 7 days or so to. provide an address and them they lose it?
0 Reply
Brandon McCombs
OP
Homeowner · Fairmont, WV · Member since 2014 · 95 posts · 19 votes
10y
Hi @Benjamin Timmins I hear what you are saying Ben. Thanks for your response. However I don't agree with everything you said. Regarding your first response after my last one, security deposits *are* counted as income if they end up being used for damages or rent or simply can't be returned because the tenant never provides a forwarding address.
I'm not a bank so he shouldn't be able to expect to get it back anytime he wants. As a landlord I have 30 days to give it back to him and I read Ohio law in a way that suggests tenants have 30 days to give me a forwarding address so there are limitations on both sides of the equation, on side more explicit than the other of course. I know some states favor tenants over landlords and Ohio does lean sometimes toward the tenants but in this situation it isn't clear which way they would lean. But I can't just keep the money indefinitely (I have no idea at this point how long he will be in jail for; he violated his parole from what I hear) and not know when or if it will ever have to be returned. Surely there is a statute of limitations per se' for something like this, and to me it's 30 days for him to provide some way to receive it just as it is for me to return it.
@Kathy Johnson The unit is a garage apt next to a house on the same property. I own both units and have a tenant in the house. I spoke to the house tenant last week and she said my apt tenant had told her to keep his mail for him until he returned on Dec 4, which he never did. And his parole officer showed up Dec 7 and took his mail from my house tenant. Plus, since he didn't give me a forwarding address (yet) because he didn't know where he would be then it makes sense he didn't setup any forwarding with the PO for the same reason. The Ohio law doesn't mention any obligation on my part to send the remaining deposit to his last known address.
@George P. Actually the Ohio law page I linked to doesn't indicate any time limit by which the tenant has to give me a forwarding address but it does state if the tenant fails to do that then they forfeit being able to sue me for damages for not returning it on time or at all. Since it isn't explicit I would place the same 30 day limit on the tenant as is placed on the landlord but that's just me.
1 Reply
George P.
Property Manager · Livonia, MI · Member since 2011 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
I think Michigan law is 7 days for giving us forward address..
0 Reply
Matt Motil
Rental Property Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 880 votes
10y
Tenant is required to give you a forwarding address - but don't assume a time limit here. If he's in jail and you know which one, then send him his security deposit to the prison via certified mail. If he's owed less money for damages, etc, then you take that out of the deposit, but include a letter with the check so there is an accounting of the finances. Ultimately, it's a security that you held on his behalf to cover finalizing the terms of the lease. Just because he's in jail currently doesn't mean you get out of returning his money.
3 Reply
Richard Dunlop
Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2014 · 755 posts · 462 votes
10y
Originally posted by @George P.:

well, hold on... doesn't it count as if he never provided a forwarding address? they have something like 7 days or so to. provide an address and them they lose it?
They don't lose the deposit.
They lose the right to sue for treble damages. (Triple)
0 Reply
Stephen Haynes
Rocklin, CA · Member since 2015 · 207 posts · 66 votes
10y
Sounds like you are looking for a reason not to return it. Yeah he is most likely a scumbag of a human being but as you didn't complain about the way he treated your rental or always being late on rent etc. return his deposit and Technically the sheriff called you and told you where he is living so you do know his address. Sorry Police Chief.
0 Reply
Colleen F.Pro Member
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
You seem to be looking for a reason to not send it because he didn't provide a forwarding address. However the police chief called you (weird) since the police are not usually so forthcoming so you know where he is. Either send to the jail or send to the previous address and if it doesn't go through you have proof you sent. Since it is due Dec 30 if it becomes income because you can't return it (which I doubt) it will be income for next year since as of Dec 30 you will still be doing due diligence to try to return it. Unless he did damage you really shouldn't keep it.
0 Reply
Brandon McCombs
OP
Homeowner · Fairmont, WV · Member since 2014 · 95 posts · 19 votes
10y
I don't know which jail he is in and have yet to speak to the chief interactively to get more details. He hasn't returned my calls and he hasn't attempted to call me again even though in his voicemail he said he wanted to enter the rental unit to see if the tenant had anything in his possession that came from chief's town. Little did he know at the time that the tenant had moved out and didn't leave anything behind.
The tenant won't be getting all of his deposit back anyway. I'm looking for a *good* (read: legal) reason to not return it. Extra income always helps but I'm not going to do anything illegal to accomplish that. I also don't want to have to just sit on it either while waiting indefinitely for him to come back for it. Short of sending it to him in jail (or he gets out before the end of the Dec) I don't see a method for getting it to him wherein I'd still be obligated to give it to him based on my interpretation of the Ohio code.
thanks for everyone's advice and suggestions. I appreciate it.
0 Reply
Mike S.
Rental Property Investor · Huntsville, AL · Member since 2013 · 419 posts · 323 votes
10y
Send it certified to the last known address (the rental unit). If the tenant submitted a change of address to the Post Office, it will be delivered there, and if anyone is there to sign for it, you have a record of complying with the law and it is up to whoever signed for it to get it to the tenant If no change of address, or no one is there to sign, it will be returned to you. Keep the letter unopened in your files. Again, you have a record of your compliance and you have made every reasonable effort to deliver.
2 Reply
Account Closed
Specialist · Daphne, AL · Member since 2014 · 114 posts · 18 votes
10y
This sounds like a perfect senator of "when in doubt don't do it" and "Err on the side of caution" certified letter is my vote!
0 Reply
Mike CumbieBusiness Member
REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
Legally: an attorney should be able to tell you for sure
Morally: That is up to you
0 Reply
Benjamin Timmins
Landlord · Utica, MI · Member since 2015 · 190 posts · 99 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Brandon McCombs:

I don't know which jail he is in and have yet to speak to the chief interactively to get more details. He hasn't returned my calls and he hasn't attempted to call me again even though in his voicemail he said he wanted to enter the rental unit to see if the tenant had anything in his possession that came from chief's town. Little did he know at the time that the tenant had moved out and didn't leave anything behind.
The tenant won't be getting all of his deposit back anyway. I'm looking for a *good* (read: legal) reason to not return it. Extra income always helps but I'm not going to do anything illegal to accomplish that. I also don't want to have to just sit on it either while waiting indefinitely for him to come back for it. Short of sending it to him in jail (or he gets out before the end of the Dec) I don't see a method for getting it to him wherein I'd still be obligated to give it to him based on my interpretation of the Ohio code.
thanks for everyone's advice and suggestions. I appreciate it.
That totally makes you sound like a shady landlord. Id never want to rent a place from you.
1 Reply
Mike S.
Rental Property Investor · Huntsville, AL · Member since 2013 · 419 posts · 323 votes
10y
I forgot to mention, in my state, if you don't send the SD settlement in the required time period, you forfeit all damages and can be made to pay three times the SD to the tenant and attorneys fees/court costs.
0 Reply
JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 17k+ votes
10y
Question: why would you want to keep his deposit? Because he's in jail? Because he didn't give you a forwarding address? You mentioned something that he wasn't getting all of it back anyway (no mention of why), but frankly the post sounds like you are looking for a good excuse to just keep his money outside of his obligations to you.
I agree with Benjamin, it sounds shady and not something that I would want to be posting on a public forum. If you're intent on just keeping his money because you can, why even ask here? You're looking for the forum to give you workarounds to what is clearly an ethical issue, if not an outright legal issue. Even if I knew a loophole that would allow you to keep his money, I wouldn't share it with you because I think it's dishonest. If you made some kind of deal with the guy to keep the deposit, that's one thing, but you sound as though you are taking advantage of his misfortune to keep his money. What if that deposit was the only thing keeping him from bonding out of jail? What if he's a nut and decides to seek vengeance on you because you shorted him 500 bucks (or whatever your deposit is)?
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3 Reply
Brandon McCombs
OP
Homeowner · Fairmont, WV · Member since 2014 · 95 posts · 19 votes
10y
@Colleen F. The police chief called me because he said they wanted to get in the rental unit to see if the tenant had anything from the town where the chief was from. I'm assuming at that time the chief wasn't yet aware that my tenant had moved out and left nothing behind so there wasn't any reason from my perspective to need to see it. But I've attempted to get in touch with the police chief to no avail.
@Mike S. There is no forwarding set up. He was using my other tenant to hold his mail. The police ended up confiscating it before he could pick it up. In Ohio the law says that if I don't send the tenant's deposit to them within the time period I'm liable for damages as well, except that if the tenant never gives me a forwarding address the law specifically states that the tenant is no longer able to receive damages from the landlord.
@Benjamin Timmins "That totally makes you sound like a shady landlord. Id never want to rent a place from you." That doesn't mean much coming from you based on the tone of your other messages. The feeling is mutual. Plus I wouldn't want you as a tenant anyway.
@JD Martin Why would I want to keep his deposit? I don't want to. By the time I take out money for cleaning that he never did and holes in walls from hanging stuff and any thing else that he did/didn't do per the lease he may end up with getting back $150 or so. So it's hardly worth it to expend too much time on determining if I can keep it only because there may not be a way to return it. I've never dealt with people in jail before so I was unaware he may still be able to get mail; assuming I can determine which jail. I'm not shady so I'm not concerned about posting on a public forum. You guys are just cynical apparently. I am not looking for workarounds to get his deposit but rather to know how to give it to him and, apparently, trying to send it to him while he is in jail is the a viable option here and one that I wasn't aware was valid but it does hinge on me having to track him down rather than the onus being on him to give me the information. I'll ignore the rest of your message since it's purely based on speculation and hypothetical scenarios.
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Account Closed
Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2014 · 493 posts · 200 votes
10y
Sounds like you're familiar with Virginia laws. Here in Michigan, I'd recommend sending the Notice of Damages and any of the security deposit the ex-tenant has coming (if any) to the last known address. (They should have a forwarding address with the post office.) If you get it back, keep the envelope in their file in case the tenant sues you later for failing to return their security deposit. The returned mail will prove you attempted to follow the law. Virginia laws may alter this recommendation...you'll have to sort that out. There maybe an association for rental property owners in your area that you can join--always a good idea--that will likely have the solution to your issue.
0 Reply
Scott Nolan
Investor · Fairfax, VA · Member since 2015 · 45 posts · 12 votes
10y
Ask the court to help you determine where he's being incarcerated. Then contact that jail and ask how to contact him. Then write him and ask where he would like the money sent.
Easy-peasey.

0 Reply
Jeff B.
Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Benjamin Timmins:

You just have to hold onto it, or file a claim in court for abandonment. Security deposits are never the landlords cash, its just cash in escrow to protect against damages. Never is meant for income.
Deposits can be claimed for past due rent. Two clauses in your lease agreement will help:
causes for default breach of contract are:
- abandonment of the apartment over 30 days
- incarceration for a period exceeding 30 days
and such a breach voids the lease.
0 Reply
Benjamin Timmins
Landlord · Utica, MI · Member since 2015 · 190 posts · 99 votes
10y
@Jeff B. He obviously didn't have that in the lease.
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