Finding a tenant seems like pooling teeth

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Finding a tenant seems like pooling teeth

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Rotonda West, FL · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 8 votes

Hey everyone.  So I've had my condo listed online for a week, and out of all the people who've come in, I only have 1 potential tenant, but he hasn't submitted the application yet.  Essentially, 80% of the inquiries never even reply back to me after I send them my pre-screening questionnaire.   And my questions are kindergarten compared to some of the hardball questionnaires I've seen other landlords requests.  I don't even ask for first, last and security, I just ask for first and security, but still it's not good enough for these people.  So my question is - do people just expect that I'll put my assets on the line just to make some stranger happy and bypass all the questioning and background/credit checks?  When I signed my car lease, I figuratively had to give them a blood test to prove to them that I was worthy.  And we're talking a car lease which is half the lease of my condo.  So what I'm getting at is this:  Why do people get so turned off by questions?  I already wasted hours for the few days showing the condo to people who didn't even have a credit history.  Then I got wise to the game and started the conversation with the pre-questionnaire.   Or is the right answer for me to just stop wasting my time, hire a professional tenant placement agency, pay them a month's rent for their services, sign the lease and call it a day?

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James DeRoest
Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
10y

Lots of landlords do strange things, like this pre application thing, but it doesn't mean they have much success when they do this stuff. I've met plenty of landlords who set really stupid conditions, and then wonder why the house is empty for six months.

So all you're doing is setting impediments for people to rent from you. They could fill out this form and wait, or they could just move onto the next property.

And if you're above average for that unit, why is anyone going to hang around for a potential landlord to spend the next three days scratching his *** wondering whether to show the apartment? When tenants have plenty of choice, they ain't going to jump through hoops they think are unnessacary.

Especially at this time of year! This is the quiet season. Things don't move, especially houses listed with above average rent.

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  • Lombosco Dixon
    Rehabber · Woodbridge, NJ · Member since 2015 · 60 posts · 4 votes
    10y
    People always want to take the easy way out, if your app is 3-7 pages long that's just fine. It really set an expectation. When someone wants to go to the next guy and fill out their one page app it just means 98% of the time that will be a problem and a head ach giving you the triple t's It's not you it's then I would say continue to do it that way and if you have to offer cash for referrals word of mouth is a great way to market ... Pay rent for one month just to get your next Tenet or give a gift card or something
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  • Elizabeth Colegrove
    Hanford, CA · Member since 2013 · 5k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    I personally keep it simple. I have an online application require credit and background, copy of their license and pay stubs. I try hard to remind myself patience but I feel you! I have a very expensive house listed, my most expensive one to date and winter is a cold market. So I truly feel your pressure ;)

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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Burleson, TX · Member since 2016 · 54 posts · 13 votes
    10y
    Alexander Morgovsky How are you listing your rental? What site/service? Do you have pictures/video walk through of decent quality? Are you emailing from a business-like email address? (FatCatMatt6969gmail.com would be a great land lord!) To cut down on people that you have to email you could list expectations and screening costs/entry barriers on the posting up front. This would reduce sticker shock and your touch time. Not sure if a site is feasible (if you have enough properties to justify) but having a link to a webform where they do the pre-screening as part of the initial contact would reduce your touch time. If you are in a high rental velocity area they may be getting into other places by there time you responding or if they feel it's taking to long they may move on? They are responding to you Ad so it seems more likely they are put off in the email portion. Content or Tone? Some thoughts off the cuff.
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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    @Lombosco Dixon   If someone wanted me to fill out a 7 page application I would think they did not want me as tenant.

    It is so easy to do a full background check with just a little information it just seems like harassment to me.

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    Rotonda West, FL · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 8 votes
    10y

    Thanks everyone, all good points. I am listing my condo on Zillow and their affiliates, and Craigslist. My pre-screening questionnaire is very short - the basics like gross income > 3Xmonth's rent, that type of thing, nothing extreme. My rental application is very short, I'm just using the out-of-the-box application from RentPrep. I have around 40 pictures on Zillow and around 25 pictures on Craigslist. I just have this 1 property right now, so technically I'm just a beginner trying to start the right way. I have an LLC I created for this, so dedicated email account with a professional name, the works. And I check that email account every few hours to make sure I answer quickly. I too think it's better to be patient then to get into a nightmare situation with a nasty tenant who will make life a disaster for me, at the same time, how long is enough is the question as well. I think another turn-off is my rental price - it's $950. In my area, this kind of condo goes for $900. The reason for my price being $50 more is everything in there is brand-new, and that will only be the case before the first tenant moves in, so I'm trying to re-coup costs I put into this thing with the higher rent. I didn't realize $50 what such a big deal, considering $50 is what it takes to take a family out to the movie theater these days..but hey, it is what it is.

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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Burleson, TX · Member since 2016 · 54 posts · 13 votes
    10y
    Marketing: You are saying Zillow and affiliates.. If you are not using "Postlets" I would recommend it. It's one to many Marketing and it saves your properties and you can then take ads up and down from your phone. (It does craigslist as well) That might increase your range of advertising(and make it easier and faster)
    1Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    A couple of points, if market rent is $900 and yours is $950 that is part of your answer.  You are still getting calls though so you might not be too far off.   Try asking your questions by phone, then if the tenant looks good to you show it.  You could send the questionnaire by email and followup by phone.  Insist on a paper application before renting but maybe not before showing, however only show it to those who are pre-qualified. You want the best applicants to see your place and they need to want to give you above market.  It is winter too , so that can be an issue in Philly.  Anyone in Philly want to move this weekend?

    You may need to forgo the extra due to the season, move in special discount maybe?

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  • Tom Ott
    Equity Raiser and Turnkey Provider · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Hey everyone.  So I've had my condo listed online for a week, and out of all the people who've come in, I only have 1 potential tenant, but he hasn't submitted the application yet.  Essentially, 80% of the inquiries never even reply back to me after I send them my pre-screening questionnaire.   And my questions are kindergarten compared to some of the hardball questionnaires I've seen other landlords requests.  I don't even ask for first, last and security, I just ask for first and security, but still it's not good enough for these people.  So my question is - do people just expect that I'll put my assets on the line just to make some stranger happy and bypass all the questioning and background/credit checks?  When I signed my car lease, I figuratively had to give them a blood test to prove to them that I was worthy.  And we're talking a car lease which is half the lease of my condo.  So what I'm getting at is this:  Why do people get so turned off by questions?  I already wasted hours for the few days showing the condo to people who didn't even have a credit history.  Then I got wise to the game and started the conversation with the pre-questionnaire.   Or is the right answer for me to just stop wasting my time, hire a professional tenant placement agency, pay them a month's rent for their services, sign the lease and call it a day?

    Hello Alexander,

    This is a great question! Tenant screening/application process can be a pain! What kind of application do you have? What is the process like? At our company we try to make it simple and easy enough for applicants to not feel overwhelmed. 

    I always make sure they they get all the information they need from me to be able to move ahead with the application process. Sadly, sometimes you just have to wait. Properties can fill up in a second, or take a little bit of time. Sometimes candidates apply that you do not want in your unit.

    Keep trying! I know you will find someone soon!

    Please let me know if you have any questions.

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  • Account Closed
    OP
    Rotonda West, FL · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 8 votes
    10y

    Thanks.  @Jesse, right - Postlets - they got a whole list of sites they propagate to.

    @Colleen - Reason why I don't like the phone is because people feel they can say anything they want without consequence.  Sure I'll show it to them, but then they won't fill the paper one out because they don't want to get in trouble.  Essentially, I'm doing a free museum show at that point.  I like your idea of the move-in special though..kind of like a Winter sales thing the car dealers do.  But at this point I think I just spend the money on a RE to get this done for me.  And actually your post gave me another answer - even my lease has something about not moving out during the winter months, which I think is pretty standard, because everyone considers Winter to be a "dead season" for renting.

    @Tom - as I mentioned earlier I'm using the RentPrep application.  It's barely 2 pages long, doesn't get any easier.  I don't like the online ones where the tenants will drag their feet for weeks.  People have no problems "liking" on Facebook for 3 hours straight, but give them an online application, and they'll fill it out by Labor Day - that's why I like RentPrep - people fill out a 2 pg application, then I upload the data to RentPrep who does the rest.  What has been your experience with online apps?  I know the idea is if the tenant is serious, they'll take their time and fill it out.  But the tenant knowing I get to get their application directly first reinforces the idea they can't put down "Donald Duck" on their online form somewhere and somehow trick some online system.  They know they have to get past a real person first.

    1Reply
  • James DeRoest
    Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
    10y

    Lots of landlords do strange things, like this pre application thing, but it doesn't mean they have much success when they do this stuff. I've met plenty of landlords who set really stupid conditions, and then wonder why the house is empty for six months.

    So all you're doing is setting impediments for people to rent from you. They could fill out this form and wait, or they could just move onto the next property.

    And if you're above average for that unit, why is anyone going to hang around for a potential landlord to spend the next three days scratching his *** wondering whether to show the apartment? When tenants have plenty of choice, they ain't going to jump through hoops they think are unnessacary.

    Especially at this time of year! This is the quiet season. Things don't move, especially houses listed with above average rent.

    2Reply
  • Account Closed
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    Rotonda West, FL · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 8 votes
    10y

    James, no one is scratching is anything for 3 days.  If anyone is doing the scratching, it's the tenants who have something to hide, it's the tenants who want to phone versus email to make sure nothing is written down, and who want to waste the landlord's time window shopping because they have nothing better to do.  How is a simple questionnaire with a few basic questions a problem?  How is a 2 page application a problem either?  Why don't we all just put blindfolds on, open the doors, and let anyone and everyone move in? How would you like it if you had 10 people call you, ask you questions already answered on your ad, and then spend 10 hours showing a place to people who are not even credit worthy to lease a $20,000 car?

    1Reply
  • James DeRoest
    Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
    10y

    You're trying to rent out an apartment that is over the market price, you're asking the tenant to jump through hoops because you don't like wasting your time, and you're doing this in the winter when there is very little rental demand. People just move onto the next landlord.

    And yes, I do get 10 people phoning me up, asking the same questions that's in the ad - it's called "being a landlord". It's what people do. It's what you do if you're a landlord. And yes, it does get tiresome, but hey, it's part of the business.

    So you spend 10 hours viewing an apartment that's overpriced, and you're getting upset because people don't want to overspend - and yet you blame them?? Get over yourself.

    Let me give you a clue here, the problem isn't the tenant.

    2Reply
  • D J Burand
    Real Estate Agent · Anchorage, AK · Member since 2015 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    10y
    It sounds like you are spending a lot of time doing showings, which can really increase the frustration. Unfortunately, as said above, if you are going to be selective of your occupants then you are going to have to sift through a lot of folks. Here's one idea you might try that will save you time doing showings if you have a 'hot' unit: Schedule three to four showing times a week, each a half hour long, spread out over one midday, one after work weekday, and one weekend. When people ask to view, offer them those times. This means you end up with several people stacked on top of each other, which 1) saves you time by allowing you to conduct 4-5 showings in 30 minutes, and 2) makes the unit seem very popular, thus encouraging serious applicants to apply now vs. later. Oh, and it starts training your applicants that you aren't always at their beck and call. The last key is call everyone your supposed to meet the day before and remind them, like a doctor's office. This gives you a feel of who's really gonna show. I'm not sure if you're already trying this system.. But maybe consider it if you're really spending several hours doing showings. Have we lost a couple potential applicants that couldn't make or wouldn't make our set times? Yah... But having a huge chunk of our time back not doing individual showings over several hours was worth it for us. This may not work in your market or for your unit, and I would never attempt this is an occupied unit where you must watch visitors to make sure they don't take anything... But maybe worth a shot? Otherwise stay patient, and always keep improving your system. This screening thing is just part of the game.
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  • Gail K.
    Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Applicants have teeth?   Oh wait; those are MY applicants.

    Yes; it is frustrating.  Even more frustrating waiting for those who have an appointment and don't show (along with the above that do show "dentally challenged" and then frightened to death when I hand them an (gasp!) application to take home and fill out).

    I must confess until this week I have NEVER owned a cell phone (yes; I am an oldie).  I now have one, both to handle rental calls quickly but also to be able to spend some time figuring out how the dang IPhone works as I wait (sometimes endlessly) for applicants who never show for their appointments.


    Gail

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  • Michael Dunn
    Investor · New Westminster, British Columbia · Member since 2016 · 15 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    Hey Alexander, your post was a few weeks ago so perhaps you now have a tenant. If not, I'd highly encourage picking a specific target market (yes, narrowing the field). Most condo ads are the same everywhere I look which ultimately turns the engagement into a commodity play. Lowest price per sq ft wins. When we took possession of our unit in a brand new building, there was a long list of units already up for rent. The ads were all the same; "Brand new 1 bdr condo, x sq ft, y$/month". The ad copy was consistently bullet points listing the same features as the next unit. I wrote a completely different ad that focused on some of the buildings unique design features. My subject line was "Aesthetics important to you? This could be the one!" I completely avoided bullet points in the ad copy and instead gave an in depth overview of the unique design features of the building and our suite. (Something every other owner in the building could have done but didn't). I got it rented in less than 24 hours with four back up offers. Your "target market"could be something as simple as pet owners (if you allow pets). Suppose you have a nice park nearby, subject line could be "Dog owners. You're going to love this apartment!" Ad copy to focus on how much 'Rover' is going to enjoy the park instead of listing how many electrical outlets are in each room. The goal is to stand out from all the other ads and reach directly to a specific market. Hope this helps!

    1Reply
  • Jeff B.
    Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    You've got your perspective upside down - - every prospect that fails to submit an application has done some time consuming WORK FOR YOU,  they disqualified themselves :)

    I've them walk away after reading the application - - that means they refuse or don't want to answer the questions - - believe me, you don't want to see them either.

    • set fmv for the area
    • present a clean unit for viewing

    Hard to swallow, but loosing losers is not a loss, it's a gain. :)

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    Rotonda West, FL · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 8 votes
    10y

    @Michael Dunn and @J Beard, thanks for your post..actually no, I didn't find a tenant.  The Philly snow storms didn't help either, but really, the problem is simple.  I violated something I learned a long time ago when I refinanced my own house years ago..No one cares if you have three fireplaces with premium tile work - no one will care if you have a new kitchen and new bathrooms with faucets made out of gold (figuratively speaking, but to get my point across, which I'm sure you can relate with).  It's all about the market value..I should have never put in the new bathroom into the condo, I never should have bought a new fridge, stove, etc..I should have left it as the beat-up slum which it was originally.  Then I could have rented it out 300 times by now.  Another lesson learned - a $50 difference, between $950 and $900, was not supposed to be a disaster that it turned out to be.  I thought - why would $50 be a problem when it costs more than that to take a family out to the movies.  Isn't $50 a reasonable added cost for a pristine living place?  Well, it's not reasonable, even a $1 price increase is out of line.  100%, the $50 turned out to be a disaster.  I lost more than 10x of that wretched $50 with the sunk costs of property taxes and condo fees over the last 3 months.  Right now I got it at $925 and I'm already getting interest.  Nothing panned out yet, but I'll keep it simple - I'll drop it to $900 in the next few days and I'll have it up and running in a week.  So here is the lesson of the day - don't get smart and spend your time and energy into these rentals - keep it gutta (like we say in Philly), because at the end, no one cares, it's all about the average market price.   Invest as little as possible into the rehab, because no one cares about that one bit.

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  • Sarah Ziehr
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 531 posts · 266 votes
    10y

    You are over priced. 

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    Rotonda West, FL · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 8 votes
    10y

    What do you mean?  Overpriced at $925?  I said I will be going down to $900 to get this out out of here.  Zillow states my market price is $900.  Your post confuses me.

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  • Julie O.
    Real Estate Investor · Westminster, CO · Member since 2012 · 25 posts · 18 votes
    10y

    I use a combination of some of the above strategies:  Thoroughly pre-screen on the phone before setting a showing.  Potential tenants seem to like knowing if they'll qualify based on income, pets, etc before either of us waste time with a showing.  Then as another commenter said, I like to do group showings.  I call them "open houses", having multiple people looking at once heightens the appeal and makes the property seem more desirable.  At these showings, I give out hard-copies of my application and will take an application fee at this time if the tenant looks qualified.  Bring pens and clipboards, you'll have people all over the place trying to get done first!  But the most important thing to remember is BE PATIENT.  It's more than worth it to wait for the right tenant.  Renting to the wrong people because you just want to fill your place is MUCH more expensive in the long-term than waiting that extra month for a well-qualified tenant with good references.  Good luck!

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    Rotonda West, FL · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 8 votes
    10y

    @Julie..great idea on the group showings..honestly, I never thought about group showings, because I figured people would feel uncomfortable etc, but I was wrong..in fact, a group showing would show the other people that this is in demand, and they have to act now or get lost since someone else will get it.  Let me ask..so I let everyone in at the same time, and let them walk around, and talk to everyone at once?  Is that the going standard?

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    Rotonda West, FL · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 8 votes
    10y

    And I'm at $900 as of this morning by the way, market rate, all the by the book - so whoever gets it will take advantage of all the extra things I did which I shouldn't have..but hey, live and learn :)

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  • Mike F.
    Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2015 · 570 posts · 521 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Sarah Ziehr:

    You are over priced. 

     ^^^ exactly. It's always the price. 

    If you offered it for $400 a month you'd be beating people off with a stick, true/false? True - because it's always the price. More specifically the value. In the sub $1000 rent market the price is amazingly important, a difference of 2-5% can make a huge difference in who will call you. People in that price range are living almost always pay check to pay check, making choices which bills to pay which not to pay, every dollar counts. 

    Remember -

    1) Price way to high - no phone calls

    2) Price too high- some phone calls, most are freaky people with tons of baggage asking you all kinds of bizarre questions, few to no showings

    3) Price a bit too high - more phone calls, lots of showings no asks to rent

    4) Price just right - lots of calls, lots of showings, enough asks for rent

    5) Price just under market - tons of calls, tons of showings, lots of asks for rent

    Remember - Zillow doesn't mean squat. The market dictates - the market is telling you as of Feb 2016 with what you are offering people are not seeing enough value in it. You can't deny this, you have the results to prove it, zillow doesn't mean squat.

    2nd - no pre-screening applications in writing. Your pre-screening should be over the phone, ask them some questions, screen them on the phone it takes very little time and you need to talk to them, not read their emails or god forbid texts.

    3rd - set up group showings, but don't tell them others will be there. Tell the first person you agree to show you are showing it at 5:00pm and 5:30pm which works best for you? Tell the next person the same thing, and the next and the next. Go and show the place, you don't care who shows and who doesn't you're committed for 1 hr. When you're showing and they ask for an application screen them again. Only give out applications to those who qualify and make sure you are charging a fee for application and credit/background check.

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    Rotonda West, FL · Member since 2015 · 59 posts · 8 votes
    10y

    Mike F.  I agree on the fact that I didn't realize that small price difference will make such an impact.  Thanks for your input.

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  • Joel OwensBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    10y

    Alexander:

    "The reason for my price being $50 more is everything in there is brand-new, and that will only be the case before the first tenant moves in, so I'm trying to re-coup costs I put into this thing with the higher rent."

    This is why you are having trouble. It's just like if someone is house buying and there is the best house on the street but also the highest price. Most won't want it. If it was mid-priced but had all the bells and whistles then the consumer feels like they are getting a GREAT VALUE for the money. It's all about psychology and perceived and not actual value. Perceived value drives the economy. It's not about whether something is a deal on paper technically with the numbers. It is whether the consumer THINKS it is and takes action based on that.

    You made a newbie mistake thinking you put everything new and then a tenant will overpay for market rent. A lot of renters live hand to mouth so they watch every dollar of that rent going out each month. They will also want to know average utility costs for the property you want to lease. If you have an area with low utility costs and you just put in energy efficient equipment that can be a huge selling feature to a tenant. If you put in granite counter tops but have old mechanicals the tenant will worry about constant service calls and high utility bills.

    At least you did not rehab and overpriced flip to sell. You might want to give 1 or 2 months free rent or just drop your rent to 850 and have it go up every 3 months so at the end of the year it is closer to market. You want to create a line of tenants and then choose from the best one. Highest rent isn't the consideration when a tenant trashes the place and doesn't pay. In that situation you made an extra 300 bucks in 6 months for that 50 but lost 2,000 to 3,000 when they trashed it.

    Good renters get better than market rates because they want a deal and know they are hard to find. People with issues tend to accept higher rents because they do not get past the landlord screening for the better lease deals in the market. That or they are staying at a crap hole that is ultra cheap and the landlord doesn't care.

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