Section 8-First time landlord and already in trouble! Please help

Columbia, MD · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 1 vote

Hi All,

In the process of renting our property, we received many applications. One of them was an aggressive lady on section 8. She assured us she has excellent credit score. My dad who was helping with the process, sent her a text saying that we don't participate in the section 8 "scheme" (poor choice of words, he should have thought it through). She filed a complaint against us to the department of human rights saying we discriminated against her and believe the section 8 program is a scheme. We emailed her an application but she didn't submit it due to the text message. What do I do now? Hire an attorney? What are my rights?

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Matthew Kreitzer

Attorney · Winchester, VA · Member since 2015 · 726 posts · 387 votes

10y

Do not listen to anyone on this website. Full stop. Although there may not be any federal law on the issue of Section 8 discrimination, there may very well be local laws and ordinances that prohibit discrimination based on income sources. DO NOT listen to anyone but a licensed attorney in your state. Immediately seek out a landlord tenant lawyer.

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James DeRoest
Investor · Century, FL · Member since 2015 · 950 posts · 603 votes
10y
Being Section 8 isn't a protected class. You don't have to rent to a Section 8 tenant.
Nothing will come of this complaint.
1 Reply
Matthew Kreitzer
Attorney · Winchester, VA · Member since 2015 · 726 posts · 387 votes
10y
Do not listen to anyone on this website. Full stop. Although there may not be any federal law on the issue of Section 8 discrimination, there may very well be local laws and ordinances that prohibit discrimination based on income sources. DO NOT listen to anyone but a licensed attorney in your state. Immediately seek out a landlord tenant lawyer.
8 Reply
Wayne Brooks
Real Estate Professional · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 23k+ posts · 13k+ votes
10y
@Matthew Kreitzer Is correct in that you generally can Not discriminate based the "source of income". But, you Can choose not to go through the inspection/approval process.
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Lynn McGeein
Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
Not sure of Columbia, MD, but in Annapolis, MD, you cannot simply choose not to participate or not to go through inspection process as all rental properties are required to be permitted and have an inspection, not just Section 8, and you cannot discriminate against Section 8 source of income.
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Andreas W.
Durham, NC · Member since 2013 · 502 posts · 215 votes
10y
@Nina V.
I concur, that a consultation with a lawyer is a good idea. But make sure the lawyer is knowledgeable in your jurisdiction, not just in your state. How do you know she filed a complaint? Did she say so or did you already get paper work? Big difference.
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Nina V.
OP
Columbia, MD · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 1 vote
10y
The department of human rights called. This is ridiculous. She is seeking damages. And our fault was that my dad picked a wrong word. She has no other complaints. The only thing she is holding on to is the word "scheme". We were already talking to a potential tenant. She did not submit an application so she was never really under serious consideration (even though dad did email her an application the evening she came to see the house). I am so annoyed. She is seeking one month's rent in damages.
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Matthew Kreitzer
Attorney · Winchester, VA · Member since 2015 · 726 posts · 387 votes
10y
The role of the attorney is to deliver bad news. A mentor of mine once told me "you're likely a horrible attorney if at least one person hasn't expressed anger over something you've told them a day". I think that rings true. Attorneys are required by law to act with candor towards other people, non-attorneys included. I often provide information that many people may act incredulous towards. I do not take pleasure in delivering bad news. I'm merely stressing the need to have an attorney look at legal matters, as failure to listen to a licensed, local attorney could cost someone hundreds of thousands of legal damages and fees. Sometimes a heavy hand is needed to drive that point home. Please, if you have a legal issue, drop everything and get a local attorney.
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Lorissha Coburn
Addison, IL · Member since 2012 · 9 posts · 1 vote
10y
The best advice is from a Attorney.
2nd best advice is from an Licensed Agent in your area keeping current with education. Or one who is familiar and has experience with program.
You can also refer to the HUD.gov website.
Your county dictates the atmosphere for section 8 which is actually called Housing Choice Voucher. For instance in my state of Illinois in Cook County you can not discriminate based on the program but you can deny due to credit. Source of income is a protected class.
About the Housing program,anyone can accept it. It is merely a form of payment. Matter of fact better because the government deposits on time.
What the big deal of the whole in trouble thing is the common sentiment people have against Voucher holders. They get discriminated against quite often.
It is hard for someone who has a voucher and they only have so much time to secure a lease before it is revoked.
It's a very unsettling experience for someone who knows if they don't use the voucher they could end up homeless.
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Cheryle Patterson
Rock Hill, SC · Member since 2012 · 28 posts · 13 votes
10y
Was your father your authorized agent or did he just happen to answer the phone? If he is not on your deed and not an authorized agent, tell them that and move on. Just a tip, attorneys ALWAYS believe you need an attorney. Unless something has changed drastically in this country, you are NOT obligated to participate in section 8.
1 Reply
Cheryle Patterson
Rock Hill, SC · Member since 2012 · 28 posts · 13 votes
10y
Do not pay her anything and I wouldn't hire an attorney until possibly served with something.
3 Reply
Lorissha Coburn
Addison, IL · Member since 2012 · 9 posts · 1 vote
10y
Originally posted by @Lorissha Coburn:

The best advice is from a Attorney.
2nd best advice is from an Licensed Agent in your area keeping current with education. Or one who is familiar and has experience with program.
You can also refer to the HUD.gov website.
Your county dictates the atmosphere for section 8 which is actually called Housing Choice Voucher. For instance in my state of Illinois in Cook County you can not discriminate based on the program but you can deny due to credit. Source of income is a protected class.
About the Housing program,anyone can accept it. You dont have to already participate.
Landlord would treat applicant fairly like anyone else. Sign application,do checks...e.t.c,It is merely a form of payment. Matter of fact better because the government deposits on time. Her source of income cannot be discriminated against.
She pays deposit like anyone else.There is a wait time for approval ( moving papers)but renting to her they will give back pay.
What makes the prospective tenant make this into a big deal is the common sentiment people have against Voucher holders. They get stereotyped and discriminated against quite too often. This is why the law protects the rights of Voucher holders.
It is hard for someone who has a voucher and they only have so much time to secure a lease before it is revoked.
It's a very unsettling experience for someone who knows if they don't use the voucher they could end up homeless.I am sure that is her biggest fear.
Between her and your dad communication was off key there. It is a misunderstanding he should say he wasn't familiar with section 8 and she could of explained or directed him to someone who could. It is his ultimate decision on whether he wants to rent to the tenant.
I am sure that HUD would point you in the right direction.
The question is would your Dad consider another tenant if they are in the program?
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Nina V.
OP
Columbia, MD · Member since 2016 · 8 posts · 1 vote
10y
@Cheryle Patterson- Hi- I believe it would be an authorized agent. He posted an ad on Zillow using his email address. The guy was just trying to help us out. I have nothing against section 8. The house was vacant and I wanted a tenant in as soon as possible. I am happy to enroll in section 8 by before this tenant leaves.
1 Reply
Jeff B.
Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y
When I've been ask if I accept/take section 8, I simply reply,
- "the facility has not been qualified for section 8",
which is a true statement.
I do have a Certificate of Occupancy from the City, so yes it has been inspected, but just not by the Housing Authority. I have never made an application and don't think I need to.
3 Reply
Account Closed
Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
The tyranny of the oppressed. Amazing. The OP is the taxpayer who pays for Section 8 benefits of the litigious applicant. And now is being told she must not only accept section 8 but also accept this aggressive and arrogant and entitled tenant. I cant speak for all states but the states where I own rentals there is no requirement to participate in Section 8. I dont care about source of income. Some tenants have disability payments or other public sources of income. What I dont want to have to do is jump through some local government hoops on inspection, rental amount, lease conditions and evictions. And if the day comes where I would be compelled to do that, I would simply get out of the rental business.
6 Reply
Account Closed
Investor · Singapore · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
The tyranny of the oppressed. Amazing. The OP is the taxpayer who pays for Section 8 benefits of the litigious applicant. And now is being told she must not only accept section 8 but also accept this aggressive and arrogant and entitled tenant. I cant speak for all states but the states where I own rentals there is no requirement to participate in Section 8. I dont care about source of income. Some tenants have disability payments or other public sources of income. What I dont want to have to do is jump through some local government hoops on inspection, rental amount, lease conditions and evictions. And if the day comes where I would be compelled to do that, I would simply get out of the rental business.
1 Reply
Lorissha Coburn
Addison, IL · Member since 2012 · 9 posts · 1 vote
10y
Originally posted by @Jeff B.:
When I've been ask if I accept/take section 8, I simply reply,

"the facility has not been qualified for section 8",
which is a true statement.
I do have a Certificate of Occupancy from the City, so yes it has been inspected, but just not by the Housing Authority. I have never made an application and don't think I need to.
Yes rental properties gave to be compliant and get Certificate of Occupancy, but as far as the Housing Choice Voucher program ,you say you are hour facility has not been qualified but what if they tell you the process starts by you signing their moving papers, it doesn't matter about prior participation.
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Lorissha Coburn
Addison, IL · Member since 2012 · 9 posts · 1 vote
10y
facility,property,unit doesn't have to have a pre-existing approval.
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Kimberly H.
Residential Real Estate Broker · Chicago Suburbs, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
10y
@Nina V.
So what innocent word did your dad type in that got accidentally autocorrected to "scheme" in that text message?
Are you sure that that department of human rights really called you ... and it wasn't just that tenant or friend who called, pretending to be that department to scam you out of 1 months rent? Try googling or calling the number with caller id blocking and verify that at least.
I once had someone threaten over text that I was discriminating and that their lawyer was gonna call me (I said I wouldn't show them the unit due to credit score to low and pet bird). Never happened. I was able to figure out what she looked like from googling the phone number and finding her on social media, she actually showed up to a rental open house we had after that drama, fortunately they left without saying anything. Once had a real estate agent whose clients applied to a unit I had listed accuse me of discrimination, this agent sent me all kinds of useless paperwork trying to prove her clients income without actually proving anything, like I was supposed to take her word that her client made 3x rent. Instead of supplying what I was requesting, she was trying to scare me into letting them in, using the D word.
Honestly, the absolute *last* person I would consult about this is a real estate agent as someone else advised.
If the dept of human rights really did call you...then I would definately talk to a lawyer, but not just any lawyer, one who specializes in landlord tenant issues, and one who does so in your county.
Don't listen to people who say that section 8 isn't protected or that you don't have to take section 8, it depends on what county the rental property is in.
Going forward, don't ever give anyone any attitude, encourage everyone to apply, be as nice as possible because when peoples feelings get hurt it's when things get ugly, have a written criteria that you use.
1 Reply
Jeff B.
Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Lorissha Coburn:

Originally posted by @Jeff B.:

Yes rental properties gave to be compliant and get Certificate of Occupancy, but as far as the Housing Choice Voucher program ,you say you are hour facility has not been qualified but what if they tell you the process starts by you signing their moving papers, it doesn't matter about prior participation.
Sorry, but that expression is not in English grammar. But it has no impact whatsoever on the outcome. Guess I've been do this all wrong for 18 yrs.
1 Reply
Jeff B.
Buy & Hold Owner · Redlands, CA · Member since 2015 · 5k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y
@Account ClosedI'm with you :)
0 Reply
Nicole A.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y
Unless you have been served some sort of lawsuit, there is nothing you need to do. You could probably get a free consultation from an attorney, but many of us have experience with your area. As you probably know, though, conversations with anyone need to always stay professional and non-emotional. That needs to happen from here on out.

This forum is full of very experienced people. You can indeed listen to many people on this board who can give you sound advice. It's not that you shouldn't do your own research, but sometimes this forum can give more specific advice than repeatedly saying "consult an attorney."
4 Reply
Kimberly H.
Residential Real Estate Broker · Chicago Suburbs, IL · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
10y
@Lorissha Coburn I don't even say anything about it not being not section 8 inspected yet, for fear *that* could be construed as discrimination. I just encourage everyone to apply. If they ask a direct question about if its been section 8 inspected, or what the tenant income/credit score etc requirements are, then I tell them. There is a $40 fee per adult applicant so that encourages them to ask questions first.
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Lynn McGeein
Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
Maybe read the Fair Housing and landlord/tenant laws and see if you are exempt as you say "first-time landlord" and there are certain exclusions if you have, I believe, less than 4 properties and manage them yourself. While you can't advertise the property by saying things like, No Children, or anything, you do have more leeway under Fair Housing rules than professionals like property managers or real estate agents. It's worth researching.
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Nicole A.Pro Member
Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y
@Nina V.Here is a link to a 2012 landlord handbook (old, i know). Look at page 3...although it's still a little vague if you ask me:
http://dnncquh0w.azurewebsites.net/LinkClick.aspx?...
Next, here is the link to the Housing Choice Voucher Program (Section 8). There is a phone number that I'm sure you could call and ask all the questions you need. I wouldn't tell them your situation; just ask questions.
https://www.howardcountymd.gov/Departments/Housing...
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Gino BarbaroPro Member
Rental Property Investor · St Augustine, FL · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
@Nina V.
Use this as a learning lesson. Don't text anything to a tenant.
Figure out what your tenant base is? Do you want to take section 8 tenants. Is your base blue collar, white collar, etc. You need to set up certain criteria for your tenants, such as 3 times income, credit scores and do not deviate from the system.
My partner and I have over 600 units and we do not participate in the Section 8 program. We do have a system of processing tenants and follow it. Do we get evictions? Every month, but that is the cost of doing business. Our goal is to minimize these evictions and try to rent to qualified tenants.
I would definitely consult with an attorney in your market and ask him what the next steps are.
I wish you luck.
Gino
Podcast Guest on Show The “Conveyor Belt” System That’ll Build You a BIG Rental Portfolio Quickly
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