Real Estate Investor · Woodruff, SC · Member since 2016 · 19 posts · 0 votes
Long time lurker, first time post. I have question for landlords about knob & tube wiring. I am a somewhat new landlord, just 2 properties, and in the process of purchasing one now. The one I am in the process of purchasing is an older house (1920's) and does have the knob & tube wiring, no insulation. My question is, how many properties do you own that have this type of wiring. I know this type of wiring is not preferred and can be dangerous however I also hear that there are numerous homes that still have this type of wiring with no issues. I have gathered a ton of info from past post however I am curious how many you own. Can I get some insight?
Investor · Coeur d'Alene, ID · Member since 2016 · 551 posts · 218 votes
10y
Knob and tube wiring is all over the east coast and Midwest properties in older homes. It was all the only way homes were wired in that time period. Most of the time the only way it's brought up to code is if there is a renovation or an issue with it. It's not the safest way to wire but it has been in that home since it was built. If you have renovations planned then you will have to bring this house's electrical up to code, $3000 - $8000, maybe more depending on size of house. Make sure you include that in any of your budgeting.
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
10y
@Mike Nicholson, I have bought houses with knob and tube wiring. I always update the wiring. Aside from the safety issue, what you will save in insurance will eventually make it a good investment as will the increase in value. The last property I upgraded cost me about $5K, I saved a little over $500 per year in insurance. A ten year payout in cash flow plus an increase in value made it attractive to me. I do not know how the number will run in your area.
Rental Property Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
welcome @Mike Nicholson I had a Victorian with knob and tube. We were on the verge of completely redoing the wiring when we sold it. Didn't have any issues with it.
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
10y
I have one property that has pieces of KnT wiring in the hard-to-access areas. Anywhere that is exposed (basement) has been upgraded. I will continue to upgrade it as renovations take place in piecemeal fashion, although if I ever go to sell it I will make sure none is left before it gets put on the market.
It is something that you can negotiate a lower sale price with.
Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2014 · 180 posts · 114 votes
10y
Old houses with K & T wiring often only had 4 circuits at 15A each on a total 60A service. It's no where near adequate for the demands of a modern house. The other issue as noted above is insurance. Many carriers won't touch a property with k & t wiring and will insist that you upgrade. Those who will carry will assess a hefty premium. If you are going to hold this property, I would budget on an upgrade.
Fairway, KS · Member since 2018 · 82 posts · 28 votes
8y
Knob and tube is fine for your lighting and some receptacles. I would bring all knob circuits into a new 100/200 panel and add new circuits to kitchen (min 2/20amp) and baths (min1/20amp) Also 20 amp cicuits to garage basement or outdoor areas (all grounded). I would point out some communities require complete rewiring if you reach a threshold of replacement. I would try and avoid that and I don't think its important to have all circiuts grounded which is why I would leave the existing circuits mentioned above.
Rental Property Investor · Phila, PA · Member since 2015 · 276 posts · 111 votes
8y
Speak with your insurance agent. I’m on east coast and both my personal and rental properties have knob and tube. Insured with no issues; they didn’t expect all K&T removed, but did want evidence of electrical updating. Especially, the electrical box.
Speak with your insurance agent. I’m on east coast and both my personal and rental properties have knob and tube. Insured with no issues; they didn’t expect all K&T removed, but did want evidence of electrical updating. Especially, the electrical box.
Hi, Mags S. Wondering if you could share what insurers are giving you coverage on K&T houses? I'm looking for reasonably-priced insurance for my K&T (with upgraded 100A ckt breaker boxes) duplex in Ohio. Thanks!
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
@Matt Tallent
There are two separate electrical upgrades that likely need to be done in older houses.
One is the service entry and breaker panel. Most are old 60A services and old panels. A new pane will be safer and provide space and capacity for more circuits.
Second is the actual branch wiring around the house. K&T and older ungrounded circuits are not necessarily a hazard, but can be if improperly used or improperly upgraded. When just sitting there running low-current items like ceiling lights, they’ve been fine for 80 years But when someone plugs ina. Space heater or decides to add new switches,or fixtures, the wiring can overheat or the insulation can crumble.
So find out from your home inspection what you’re dealing with and make your decisions based on that. Feel free to ask if you want/need more info.
Real Estate Agent · Phila, PA · Member since 2017 · 69 posts · 19 votes
8y
@Mike McCarthy thanks Mike! So the seller is willing to replace with a new 100amp panel. When I viewed the house there were existing tenants and they had outlets running a tv and ac unit. Obviously this is where the hazard comes from but it didn’t seem like an issue. My question is I guess with an updated panel and if I installed one grounded line in each bedroom do you think it would even be an issue?
Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
8y
@Matt Tallent yeah, that’s the basic idea. You want to run new circuits where there are higher load devices. AC, kitchen, bath are always good choices.
There will always be a risk, that’s why some insurance companies charge more or won’t underwrite a house with K&T, but you’ll limit your risk the more you replace.
The houses I buy and Reno, I replace all of it. It’ll help with my peace of mind, and more so resale when I do get around to selling.