Tenant Smoking like a chimney in a nonsmoking building!

General Landlording & Rental Properties
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Tenant Smoking like a chimney in a nonsmoking building!

Nick Taskani
Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2015 · 23 posts · 2 votes

I bought a 4 unit complex a few months ago, the previous owner had a strict non-smoking policy that was signed by each tenant.  It basically states that smoking constitutes a breach of the lease and grounds for immediate termination of the lease.   I went in today to take some measurements of the windows and sure enough the unit smelled like a chimney.  I saw cigarette butts/ashtrays everywhere.   

Now she is otherwise a good tenant.  Should I give her a warning?  Anyone have experience with this?  If I give her a warning, and if she says she will abide by the rules, do I make unannounced visits and check on her?   

Or should I evict her now?  Seems harsh but I don't want my unit to stink like smoke, hard to get that stuff out.  

Thanks  for any advice.  

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Michael Julian
Investor · Franklin, TN · Member since 2015 · 70 posts · 33 votes
10y

She may, "otherwise" be a good tenant, but the smoking is surely going to bother the other three tenants that are doing nothing wrong, and it's going to cost a small fortune to get the smell out. I am with Jared Korman on this one. It's also going to make it difficult to enforce other lease restrictions with your other tenants when they say, "Tenant x smokes and you don't do anything about that".

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  • Jared Korman
    Flipper/Rehabber · Dayton, OH · Member since 2014 · 30 posts · 5 votes
    10y

    It is really up to you. Personally, I would file an eviction if no smoking is clearly stated in the lease. There are many other residents who will follow the rules. 

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  • Michael Julian
    Investor · Franklin, TN · Member since 2015 · 70 posts · 33 votes
    10y

    She may, "otherwise" be a good tenant, but the smoking is surely going to bother the other three tenants that are doing nothing wrong, and it's going to cost a small fortune to get the smell out. I am with Jared Korman on this one. It's also going to make it difficult to enforce other lease restrictions with your other tenants when they say, "Tenant x smokes and you don't do anything about that".

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  • Todd Plambeck
    Agent/Investor · Murphy, TX · Member since 2013 · 542 posts · 304 votes
    10y

    I would evict her.  If you are going to do it now is the best time of year to get a new tenant.

    0Reply
  • Jonathan G.
    Investor · Marietta, GA · Member since 2015 · 382 posts · 258 votes
    10y
    To expect that someone is going to stop smoking because of a warning is not a realistic expectation.
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  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    10y

    Issue an official lease violation notice in writing.  Let her know that it is a non-smoking building and that she has x days to  find another place to live if she cannot abide by that policy.   I would just say that you intend to enforce that same policy if she assumed otherwise she is mistaken and needs to find a smoking apartment.

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  • Nick Taskani
    OP
    Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2015 · 23 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    Thank you all for the comments.  I was going to email her this, please let me know your thoughts:

    Dear ___,

    I was in your apartment today for the maintenance problems that we had discussed, and noted clear evidence of smoking:  ashtrays with cigarette butts and unit smelled like smoke.  

    As you know you have a strict no-smoking policy in your lease. I have attached the lease addendum that you signed back in October. I don't know why you would blatantly disregard these lease rules.

    At this point, you have 2 options: 

    1. you voluntarily move out by May 31. This will avoid filing eviction, which is in YOUR best interest because an eviction would go on your permanent record making it very difficult for you to rent other homes. I would strongly suggest you take this route.

    2. If you don't do #1, then we have to file eviction. This will go on your permanent record.

    I'm sorry to be the bearer of bad news but these are the rules, and the no-smoking policy could not be more clearly spelled out in your lease agreement that you signed.  We have no tolerance for smoking -- it damages the unit, it is very difficult to get the smell out, and it is a fire hazard.

    Let me know if you have any questions,

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  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y

    @Nick Taskani - I've seen other landlords argue that "the damage is done" and the cost to correct the smell is going to be the same if she stops smoking today, or lives there another 3 years, so they will just let the grandfathered tenant keep smoking to get as much rent as possible from this tenant with a known issue before she moves on and you get a new tenant with some new unknown issue, but be on top of it in the future.

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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Henderson, NC · Member since 2016 · 484 posts · 208 votes
    10y

    A smoker that disregards a rule the first time, will always continue to disregard smoking rules in the future. A warning will never, ever change that behavior. Might make them try to hide it a little better, but they won't stop.

    For this reason I won't usually accept somebody who smokes at all, even if they promise to smoke outside. I don't trust them. And they still stink when they go back in anyway. A smoker's house, even if never smoked in, will surely stink like smoke.

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  • John Thedford
    Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    10y

    Certified letter as well as a posted notice of violation if required. Get them out before they do more damage. It can cost thousands to mitigate smoking damage to the property. Don't be nice on this one..it IS going to cost you one way or another.

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  • Tony Gunter
    Investor · Canton, GA · Member since 2014 · 727 posts · 500 votes
    10y
    Just bought it ... Draw blood early, word will get around the property that you don't play. Lots of upside to to setting a new tone as the new owner.
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  • Nick Taskani
    OP
    Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2015 · 23 posts · 2 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    A smoker that disregards a rule the first time, will always continue to disregard smoking rules in the future. A warning will never, ever change that behavior. Might make them try to hide it a little better, but they won't stop.

    For this reason I won't usually accept somebody who smokes at all, even if they promise to smoke outside. I don't trust them. And they still stink when they go back in anyway. A smoker's house, even if never smoked in, will surely stink like smoke.

     Thanks.  But in many cases, you take their word for it, correct?  Unless they have a cig hanging out their mouth or just stink like smoke, you would not know if they were smokers if they tell you they are not.  

    I've known professionals who are very sharply dressed and you would never think they smoke.  Heck look at our president, Obama is a chain smoker.   Can we evict him from the White house?  

    Kidding aside, so I sent my tenant the message above, and she responds by complaining about me not giving her 24 hour notice.  I emailed her at 9:50 pm last night (friday evening) that I would be by to look at the windows at 1:30 pm on saturday (that's when the window guy could come).   Her lease says that unless an emergency, I give her 24 hour notice, IF POSSIBLE.  

    So do I have a case here?  Technically I didn't give her 24 hour notice to enter.   Can I still evict her for smoking ?  I should have taken photos of the cigarett butts in ashtray.  But other than that, how do you prove that someone was smoking, in court?   You can't record or take photos of stinky unit to show the judge.   

    Thanks!

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  • Samantha Klein
    Investor · Monroe, WI · Member since 2015 · 691 posts · 610 votes
    10y

    She wants to scare you so you won't evict her or so she can stay, I'd play hardball and evict her now since she wants to complain about you when clearly she's in violation of her lease.

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  • Mindy JensenPro Member
    BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y

    @Nick Taskani, You have heard from several experienced landlords who are all saying the same thing.

    I like your letter, except the part where you apologize for being the bearer of bad news. I'd remove that sentence. Don't apologize. 

    Make sure you note her security deposit, and account for how it will be spent. You'll spend the entire amount on cleanup, so you don't have to worry about giving it back to her. However, I believe every state requires notification in writing that you intend to keep X amount to cover the charges, and you must have receipts to back you up. 

    Judges have been known to give back entire security deposits plus damages which is typically triple the amount of the deposit when the landlord doesn't account for it in a timely fashion - even if they were due the entire amount because of excessive damage. Make sure you know your landlord tenant laws and comply with them.

    [email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #261
    BiggerPockets
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  • Nick Taskani
    OP
    Investor · Cincinnati, OH · Member since 2015 · 23 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    @Mindy Jensen, thanks for your comments.  I will make sure to take care of security deposit.  

    So she chose option 1 in my letter, i.e. she said she will vacate by May 31.  Which is great for me also.  Will see what condition she leaves the place in.  I'm worried about the state of the unit and how much damage she can do in the next few days.  

    I appreciate everyone's input.  My initial plan was to give her a warning, but obviously that would never have resolved this issue.   I'm glad I asked for advice here.

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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    I believe a court will not look kindly on you for not giving her an opportunity to cure.

    0Reply
  • Account Closed
    Honolulu, HI · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 0 votes
    10y

    I agree with Bob, the courts will generally favor Landlords who make an effort to solve the situation.

    0Reply
  • Amy A.
    Portland, ME · Member since 2012 · 616 posts · 550 votes
    10y

    Does your state have specific language that must be present in notices?  I would give her a legal 30 day notice to vacate for no cause if she's not on a lease.  That way you don't have to bring proof of odor.  You're right, odor is hard to prove and you should have taken photos of the ashtrays.  I've made the same mistake in the past, never again!   If she's on a lease and has violated it, you can give her a legal 7 day notice.  I would follow the process and law as if she's not planning to move out and you will have to evict.  It takes a while to get on the docket in court, and you can always drop the case if she does move out.  Also, we're talking about wanton disregard for the lease in a manner that will effect the neighbors, not sneaking a single smoke, so I don't think a judge would expect a warning.  Hopefully, this won't end up on court, but it will give you an education so you'll know the process if you eventually have to evict somebody.

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