LLC's vs Umbrella Policies for California Residents

LLC's vs Umbrella Policies for California Residents

Investor · Studio City, CA · Member since 2016 · 38 posts · 54 votes

Hello. Im looking for feedback regarding the following issue i am facing. I currently own 3 Rental Properties. 2 of the properties are in California and 1 is in Alabama. As of now i carry a 4 Million dollar umbrella policy for liability. I am considering buying 5-10 more rentals over the next year. I own my 2 California properties outright with no mortgages. One is valued at $500k and the other at $300k. The other properties i am looking at buying are through a very reputable turnkey company with in house property management and fully rehabbed homes. I am debating setting up LLC's but as a California resident there is a $850 annual fee per LLC in addition to filing taxes separately and also my insurance would double as it would be deemed commercial property. I hear most people go the LLC route but California is crazy expensive to do so. I'd be looking at possible a $9K-10K per year if i owned 10 homes in separate LLC's. From a theoretical standpoint i understand the benefits of the LLC for lawsuit protection but It seems like its unnecessary if I'm covered for $4 million with my umbrella. My net worth is $3 million. I couldn't imagine any landlord getting sued for over $4 million from a tenant lawsuit. Has anyone ever heard of or been sued before for million of dollars? Im not looking for theoretical responses- Im looking for real word- has it ever happened? It seems like the LLC is extra protection thats really not necessary but people get scared into going down that path. Would i be naive to not have LLC's and rely on insurance only?

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  • Investor · Coeur d'Alene, ID · Member since 2016 · 551 posts · 218 votes
    10y

    I spoke with an attorney about forming an LLC and having properties in different states. It is possible to set up an LLC in one state and have your other properties, in another state in that LLC to avoid to higher LLC fee. Mine was between Idaho and Washington. I'm not sure about california, you should speak with an attorney about this and you could save a lot of money this way.

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    The only million dollar lawsuit I can think of that I learned of recently, was a woman in SF who successfully sued her landlord for discrimination based on her request for a reasonable accommodation, which the management continually denied for years.  So, it can happen.  

    http://www.fairhousing.com/include/media/pdf/1205....

  • Investor · San Francisco, CA · Member since 2016 · 314 posts · 153 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Mike Hanneman:

    I spoke with an attorney about forming an LLC and having properties in different states. It is possible to set up an LLC in one state and have your other properties, in another state in that LLC to avoid to higher LLC fee. Mine was between Idaho and Washington. I'm not sure about california, you should speak with an attorney about this and you could save a lot of money this way.

    CA has an "franchise tax" (really an LLC fee) which it charges for every LLC that's owned by someone in CA or does business in CA. You can't get around it by starting the LLC in another state, unless you don't live in CA (if you didn't, then you'd only be taxed on LLCs that operated in CA)

  • Attorney · Bay Area, CA · Member since 2016 · 164 posts · 135 votes
    10y

    It is not necessary to put each property in a separate LLC. Even If you put all of your rental properties in one LLC, then only those properties that are in the LLC are at risk in a lawsuit - meaning your personal assets are safe. That alone could be worth the $800 franchise tax. You could also establish just 2-3 LLCs and place a few properties in each one based on certain factors (potential for liability, type of tenants you expect, state laws, whether the property has a loan or not, etc.). A large insurance policy is a great thing to have but I think it's a good idea to also separate yourself from the properties with a business entity.

    Moreover, the LLC is a passthrough entity, so it is not necessary to file a separate tax return - all of the income flows directly to you as if the LLC does not exist. Finally, I am not familiar with the notion that your insurance would deem your properties as commercial if you establish an LLC. You may want to verify that with your insurance co.

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