Property Management Suspected of Fraud and Embezzlement

Property Management Suspected of Fraud and Embezzlement

Littleton, CO · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 1 vote

    Hi everyone.  I am new to Bigger Pockets, but I was hoping you might have some advice for me...  I have a situation where I recently fired my PM in Arizona, because she was taking advantage of the fact that we live in another state from the property and stealing rent money from us.  Now since the contract is cancelled, according to our PM Agreement she needs to turn the tenants security deposit over to us the owners. But, the problem is that security deposit check she sent me was actually made out payable to the tenants  as well as me!  Now in order for me to deposit the check in the bank I actually need the endorsement of the tenants as well! 

If this was another PM I might assume that maybe there was a mistake made, but this woman has really exhibited some bizarre and underhanded behavior for awhile now. I've even have suspicions that she is actually living in the property herself. (I came to this conclusion because I received violation notices from the property's HOA regarding tenants parking violations with pictures of what appeared to be her vehicle parked in the driveway!) She regularly makes excuses for the tenants whether it's showing up to defend them to the HOA, making excuses for their late rent (they had id theft, laid up in the hospital, the check got lost in the mail etc.), and not charging them the late fees as agreed on in the contract.

  The security deposit check written in their names is further proof that if if she is not actually living in the house that someone very close to her is and she is cutting them deal after deal at our expense.  Now, my concern is that she may actually have converted the trust money for her own use and may not have the funds available.  Do any of you have any advice about how best to handle this? What should I do about this check? What are my options legally if we do find that she has been living in the house and undermining and stealing from us instead of upholding her fiduciary responsibilities?  Thanks for the help all. I really appreciate it.

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Doug McVinuaPro Member
Property Manager · Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2016 · 609 posts · 426 votes
9y

Karyn

1st, sorry to read of your challenges! You have a pretty involved situation that might be best discussed in a phone call just due to the moving parts. Open to answering any questions.

The Security Deposit: Most Arizona agreements are clear that with notice the Deposits are transferred back to the owner and or another Property Manager via written instruction after the Tenant has been notified. The tenant should not be on this check at this time if a valid lease is in place, they are still deposits.

The Property should be physically checked as soon as possible due to your concerns.

The Arizona Department of Real Estate would be very interested in this situation and would very/extremely likely immediately open an investigation into the matter.  The Department will most likely complete an audit of this broker within days of your contact.

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  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Sounds like you need to either take a trip and visit your property or have a close friend check that out.

    As far as endorsements for the security deposits, explain to the tenants you changed management companys and they then transfer the security deposits and all will need to go in a new account now so they will need to sign over the deposit to you, so you can transfer that money into another account. 

    As far as trust management, you can request a complete disclosure of financial accounts. and I'd do that.

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Clarification ?? Are you a beneficiary of the trust ?  are their other beneficiaries of the trust? Who is the Trustee of the Trust?

  • Doug McVinuaPro Member
    Property Manager · Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2016 · 609 posts · 426 votes
    9y

    Karyn

    1st, sorry to read of your challenges! You have a pretty involved situation that might be best discussed in a phone call just due to the moving parts. Open to answering any questions.

    The Security Deposit: Most Arizona agreements are clear that with notice the Deposits are transferred back to the owner and or another Property Manager via written instruction after the Tenant has been notified. The tenant should not be on this check at this time if a valid lease is in place, they are still deposits.

    The Property should be physically checked as soon as possible due to your concerns.

    The Arizona Department of Real Estate would be very interested in this situation and would very/extremely likely immediately open an investigation into the matter.  The Department will most likely complete an audit of this broker within days of your contact.

  • Littleton, CO · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    9y

     Thanks you guys for your help. 

    Yes, I am the beneficiary of the trust along with my husband. The PM is the trustee.

    I've just returned from making a trip out to the property.  The property itself looks fine after a brief walk through, but I also discovered more people living in the house that are not on the lease, another thing our PM failed to disclose.  I received the check paid to the order of the tenants ( and me) after returning home so I'd need to make another trip out there if I were to ask the tenants for their endorsement of the check.  I don't want to have to do that, but I will if necessary.  Thanks for your advice.  I will surely be contacting ADRE!

  • Doug McVinuaPro Member
    Property Manager · Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2016 · 609 posts · 426 votes
    9y

    Glad to hear the property condition is OK! Obvious concerns regarding the extra tenants. It does seem to confirm your fears and also support a change was needed in management. 

    Sometimes situations like this result in a tenant change as soon as it can be done without harm to you. As a Property Manager myself it seems some of the more difficult tenants are those that are acquired with new properties. We are very careful to run every tenant though a carefully planned screening process, dot the I's and cross the T's and doing so creates a good respectful relationship with them.

    Properties in the Phoenix market are renting well and we are able to locate good quality tenants. Knock on wood all of ours are currently rented, occupied and rent paid, yea!!

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    So is this correct?  the Trustee of the Trust,  hired a independent property management company  to run the rental property the trust has ownership of.. and their property manager a employee, is not complying to the contract and that you feel the property management company had set up..hope that's correct..??

    As a beneficiary your course of action I believe is to report to the TRUSTEE, in writing, any faults the management company is failing to comply with, and that includes reporting the PM employee.  As a beneficiary you have no legal power to act without a court appointing you to do so. You can request a audit from the trustee for the trust, and the trustee can ask the Property management company for a release of accounting, and give you a copy of that. 

    I manage a trust with rental property, I am the trustee, and also a beneficiary. So I have some common knowledge of what's expected and recommend you address this to the 1st in line the TRUSTEE of the Trust.. 

    Good luck,, I'd find out what's what ,before you do anything with that check you were given. I would think it should have been made out to the Trust not to you.. and if you cash it you, could be involved in a way you shouldn't be. 

  • Robert GilstrapPro Member
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Cartersville, GA · Member since 2015 · 575 posts · 581 votes
    9y

    @Karyn C.   Wow...you made the trustee of your trust the property manager?!   So assuming the trust is a revocable then it sounds like you need to change trustees immediately.  As far as depositing the checks if you can't figure that out give me call and I can tell you how to make that happen. 

  • Littleton, CO · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Oh no, sorry, I misunderstood!  The manager (ex) of our property has a trust account that the money she is entrusted with is held in.  She is the employing broker so assuming that she set up the trust account she must be the trustor and probably also the trustee if she named herself as such.  She has said to me that no one has access to her account except her so I presume that she is the beneficiary of the trust as well... (right?)  Sorry, I'm new to trusts.  Maybe you can clarify some of this for me.  

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Karyn, Sounds like she set up a special banking account for your property that is held in a trust account. So then that makes her the primary person that does the financials for your property and she can write checks against that account with no one else approving her decisions. 

    I'd get a secondary person on the account for access, "you" it's your money. I'd get a bank statement from  her showing the activity on the account.

    or Talk to a attorney and get it figured out.. I'm not sure if you really have a grasp as to what her capabilities are for managing the financials for your property. Could be all good and fine but could limit things if someone else needed access to that banking account that now has only her as signature holder. 

  • Littleton, CO · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    Thank you Deanna.  I really appreciate your help and I will definitely be taking your advice.  So in the future if I use another property management company, do you suggest that I insist that my name be on the trust account or would it be better if I have my own trust account set up so that all monies coming in and out come directly to me?  

  • Doug McVinuaPro Member
    Property Manager · Queen Creek, AZ · Member since 2016 · 609 posts · 426 votes
    9y

    In Arizona most Property Managers have an account that is designated and labeled "Trust Account". The Trust Account is for holding money that you have care of but it's not yours. Some have more than one and some have one. I happen to have one Trust Account that is carefully reconciled every month and balanced so we know exactly how much money we are holding and for whom. Some have two so that deposits are in one and rents in the other one. The Department of Real Estate doesn't really care whether you have one or many as long as everything is reconciled monthly.

    Trust Account is only a label on the account and is not at all like other Trusts. The Department is very careful with the label and with Property Management as millions of dollars have gone missing in the last few years from Trust Accounts.

    We provide a professional statement every month to our owners with details of everything that happened. We also provide copies of any repairs etc so the owner knows exactly what is happening.

  • Robert GilstrapPro Member
    Residential Real Estate Broker · Cartersville, GA · Member since 2015 · 575 posts · 581 votes
    9y

    No property manager on Earth is going to let you have your name on their trust account. In this case you're past that anyway and just need to cash the checks. You can PM me privately and I can tell you how to do that. If you are going to a new PM then the new manager should have no problem depositing those checks into their trust account but I'm not sure which way you are going.

  • Shawn AckermanPro Member
    Real Estate Entrepreneur · Mid West, East Coast · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Karyn C. Book the next flight available
  • Member since 2018 · 1 post · 0 votes
    7y

    im in AZ.....and am beneficiary to my father's Revocable Living Trust that held 24 "paid off" rental income properties incl. Motel and Apts. - I managed rentals that brought in appx. $22,000. /mo. Income.  My father , at death owed no debt. Had $246,000. In one bank acct. and $179,000.

    4 mo. before his death he asked a J.P. to act as executor to divide estate between my sister and I.  He paid him before he died. This J.P. after getting copy of will took upon himself to restate a trust that held majority of real properties, came to home with one page docs needing signatures that named J.P. as trustee . after taking 1.5m in cash/properties J.P. renounces after pocketing 1.5m and appoints Fiduciary CO. Who immediately groups properties into 3's and conveys to LLc's.  They bring in a family operated "custom Home tBuilder" - as mngmt team who in the first month reports income received as $14.97 vs. $22,000.--++which is not reported to us by accting for 10 months.... The fiduciary's 1st month of admin fees $30,000. And $50,000. for the real estate Atty.  The rental income converts from trust income to dividends earned and divided amongst agents and members.  My father's name is still used in a pooled investment he contributed $100,000. Into since 2005.    The whole thing is a J.P. (judge) is not allowed to act as a executor, Power of Attorney, Trustee, personal Rep., etc.  Yet, he, after re-signing -is, 6 months later filing taxes using my father's Social Security number and his name as the Trustee.   How do we get these people to stop taking all that was intended as ours?  Any place to go?  I've tried but, the parties involved are all Mormon and work from a web of in-penetratable exposing this massive Racketeering/fraud.This is means of acquiring massive amounts of real estate leaving their family on the streets with no means to fight them. I need people I can report this unheard of immoral crime to.

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