Tenants want to sue me over security deposit

Tenants want to sue me over security deposit

West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 7 votes

My tenants have moved out in March 2017.

I meet them at the property during move out inspection and we found damages but have no written report. 

Tenant had subleased the apartment to someone else (found out in the last week of tenancy )

They did not provide me any forwarding address and was no response when I asked them.

30 days later they are threatening to sue me using an attorney (That's what they told me over the phone)

I did send a notice to deduct security deposit  but to my own condo (last known address). 

Tenant says my notice is invalid because I did not itemize the deductions 

Help, I am loosing sleep over this.

They are demanding me to return the deposit else they will file in court for security deposit and lawyers fees . What do you recommend I do ? 

0Reply
54 views

Most Popular Reply

Real Estate Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2009 · 183 posts · 153 votes
9y

Most likely this will end up in small claims court.  Do you want to deal with it?  If they are wrong then yes, I would deal with it.  If you are wrong, I would pay, learn from your mistakes, and move on.

There is no reason to waste time on these negative things when you can use that time and energy on other things that make you money.

Good luck...

See this reply in the discussion

31 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Real Estate Investor · Dallas, TX · Member since 2009 · 183 posts · 153 votes
    9y

    Most likely this will end up in small claims court.  Do you want to deal with it?  If they are wrong then yes, I would deal with it.  If you are wrong, I would pay, learn from your mistakes, and move on.

    There is no reason to waste time on these negative things when you can use that time and energy on other things that make you money.

    Good luck...

  • Investor · Chandler, AZ · Member since 2015 · 409 posts · 214 votes
    9y

    you have got to CYA in all business transactions

    that is the way folks are today handshakes mean nothing and integrity does not exist

    if you have nothing on paper then its word against word and your in court

    do what is best to get the problem solved and don't make the mistake again

    it's called school of hard knocks

    enjoy

  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    All important questions:

    Do you have photos of the damage? Receipts of the damage repair? Did you hire out the repairs or do them yourself? When you asked for their address and got no response, was that via email/text that you still have?

    They gave you no address. How can they demand a return when you have no place to send it?

    How does the tenant know your notice is invalid due to lack of not itemizing when they didn't receive it?

    Do not answer their phone calls/emails/texts anymore.

    Do you only have 30 days to return deposit/letter of deductions in your area? My area is 45 days. Check on that if you're not sure.

    Does your area require deposits to accrue interest? Check on that as well.

    Don't lose sleep over this. They're likely just threatening you. I had a tenant threaten me with the same simply because it had been 30 days and they got nothing when I had 45 days.

    As you see, many people will say to just give the money. I say don't just cave and give money simply because someone threatens you. If that's the case, you'll be known as the landlord you just have to say "boo" to and you'll get your money!

    Take a breath. Check your laws. See that you fall within those. If you have longer than 30 days, you still have time to send them that itemized list they so desire. Send it via certified mail with delivery confirmation so they can't pull the "we didn't receive it" line.

  • Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    Check your local landlord tenant laws.  If you are required to send notice with itemized deductions from security deposit and send any remaining balance within x days to last known address and you went past that date already without doing so, then you likely owe them the deposit.  

    I have only had several occasions over the years where a tenant damaged  the property, thankfully, but I actually sent a complete itemized list, copy of contractor receipts, along with a bill for any balance over the amount of the deposit.  I've never had anyone actually pay the bill, but I do believe it makes them think twice before trying to sue me for any part of their deposit back.  

  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    We don't know if Taz is past the 30 days because it just says March. Was it 01 March or 31 March for their move-out date?

    Also, I go back again to the fact they gave no address even after being asked.

  • West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 7 votes
    9y
    We are in Florida so I have 30 days from March 20th Not sure if today April 19th counts since this is the 30th day I have pictures of the damages and receipts for work but they are only close to $1000 Receipts have handyman work There lease expired on April 14 th and i gave them 6 days to repair damages I have receipt for cleaning, pest control , Ac repairs , dish washer repairs For some items i do not have receipts I sent them a copy of notice via whatsapp Is that admissible in court or can i send a new notice today ?
  • West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 7 votes
    9y
    If they gave me keys on March 20th What's the 30 days in Florida to send them a itemized list He was okay to pay me $1000 in repairs but his tune changed after talking with an attorney so i am in this mess . I thought we would work it out He has moved to Tampa and we were going to meet next Monday when he was going to be back . I was to give him a package with someone else's name on it ṭhat i found Delevred to condo. Now he says that he will only take $2200 minus &220 for the six days extra rent Just pondering the options i have now. 1) go to court and risk attorney fees 2) meet him Monday and give him $1980
  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Taz Patel

    From 20 March to today, I count 31 days.

    Is the $1000 in repairs the cost OVER the security deposit? Why is/was he paying this?

    What is this $220 for 6 days extra rent?

    Please be clear so we can help you as best as possible. 

    The receipts you have are deducted from his original security deposit. If there is still a balance after all his deposit is exhausted, then he owes you money out of his own pocket. To me, it sounds like he is bullying you. I don't see why you need to meet this guy in person. Cancel that.

    On a sidenote, why are you giving him a package with someone else's name on it? Why don't you just "return to sender"?

  • Architect · Papillion, NE · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 840 votes
    9y

    @Taz Patel

    If he as an attorney you would have received a letter from the attorney typically.  Stick the fact of the lease and let the lease be the bad guy as you are just enforcing it.  Remind him you agreed to the terms of the lease by signing it.  I would bring a witness along when you meet.  Bring copies (not originals) of documents to discuss.  Return the package as marked "Moved - Return to Sender"  tampering with mail is federal offense. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    It is my understanding that  last known address can always be the leased unit if they did not leave you an actual forwarding address.  Some tenants would rather USPS forward rather than give old landlord next location.  If it does not forward, keep the unopened letter you find in the mail at the unit as proof you actually sent it.   Even  if you're e-sending, go ahead and send USPS certified so you have proof you mailed an itemized list.  If the official lease end date in the written lease was after they turned keys over, you still might have some wiggle room as it could be a grey area as to date to start counting, so I'd go ahead and mail it asap and keep receipts and tracking info.   

  • Property Manager · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 296 posts · 143 votes
    9y

    Their are some questions I had on this. You said that you never filled out a report of the move out. (always do this since its going to boil down to he said she said) When it goes down to giving deposit money back. even before you start telling them that you are taking their deposit money ask them where they want their deposit check sent if there aren't any issues. They also had the unit subleased? was there a provision in your lease against this? Also was there ever any yearly inspections done to this unit? Also remember that you have to wait 15 days before you touch that money from the SD for their challenge. When sending out the notice in florida it also has to be done with certified and regular mail to be legal in FL.  Also remember that the tenant is required to give 7 days notice by certified mail prior to vacating the property which shall include the address that the tenant can be reached.  Failure to give such notice relieves the landlord of paragraph (3)(a)."section 83.49(5) in the florida statutes.  So in regards to them not giving a new address they kind of shot them self  in the foot.  But if they didn't do that than you may have been in hot water if you didn't follow all the steps properly. If you have any questions i'm in your area so I can answer without any issues. 

  • Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    So how does he know you didn't send him a itemized list in the first place ??

    So send him a adjusted security deposit move out statement with itemized deductions and copy of photo's of damages.  The original was post marked and you have proof of that.and it was sent properly, Take a photo copy the original envelope for your records, and include the original unopened envelope,with the adjusted second move out statement and mail it out. 

    I wouldn't give the guy a dime more than he has coming, and if he sues good luck to him.

    I wouldn't meet him or discuss it any further with him. don't take his calls, reply should be further contact should be by mail.  If you have to adjust your statement due to unforeseen or not kept receipts for damages you give the adjustment back. 

    Proper notice is considered US Mail.. certified is better.

    Personally I wouldn't worry about it. I greatly doubt they will do anything further. 

  • Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 708 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Taz Patel:

    We are in Florida so I have 30 days from March 20th

    Not sure if today April 19th counts since this is the 30th day
    I have pictures of the damages and receipts for work but they are only close to $1000
    Receipts have handyman work
    There lease expired on April 14 th and i gave them 6 days to repair damages
    I have receipt for cleaning, pest control , Ac repairs , dish washer repairs
    For some items i do not have receipts

    I sent them a copy of notice via whatsapp
    Is that admissible in court or can i send a new notice today ?

     AC repairs, dish washer repairs and such are most likely going to be deemed "normal wear and tear" (unless the tenant somehow physically damaged the equipment on purpose).  Cleaning and pest control may or may not be considered reimbursable, depending on your lease.  If those are your only claims, then I would push back too, as the tenant.

  • Property Manager · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 296 posts · 143 votes
    9y

    The letter doesnt have to be itemized in Florida. The main issue is that you didn't do a correct move out inspection. That should itemize all of the issues and damage to the property.  I also forgot to add that what ever is left over from the SD will get sent to abandon property. 

  • West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 7 votes
    9y
    Thank you all for your responses Here is what i did today: 1) Sent a new notice and this time with itemized deductions This notice is still being sent to the condo address. It would be returned back to me 2) I was able to Google the tenants address for a house they own in the area . It matches the address on their drivers license . Kicking myself that it should have been a red flag had i checked the drivers license and property records . Would have been evident that this guy would sub lease or at least not stay at my rental for the whole year Should i also send a notice to this address ? I am still debating meeting him Monday . He has not sent me any notice yet but looks to be talking to a lawyer I have offered him $1200 back from the $2200 deposit so far
  • West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 7 votes
    9y
    Thanks Nicole for taking the time to talk with me . I appreciated the advice
  • Nicole A.Pro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    You're welcome! Remember, there is no law that forces you to stay in a conversation with someone that is threatening, yelling, insulting, etc you. If you meet on Monday to give him the agreed-upon money (vs mailing), just don't stick around. It will be okay!

    Next time, no negotiating up the amount of deposit. Simply subtract valid repairs from the deposit and that's the amount they get back. No more. No less. I still think those prior negotiations have made him believe he can just bully you into getting the entire deposit back. But you're organized and have legitimate repair receipts. He's not given you any address, so he's made things difficult.

    Be sure to do something relaxing so you can drain some of the stress! A nice glass of wine, your favorite hobby, meditation, etc. Stress can affect your health and is no joke!

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    OK...a few things...Part II of Chapter 83 Florida Landlord-Tenant 

    1. If you fail to send a notice within 30 days, by law you are REQUIRED to remit the entire amount. This does NOT, however, mean that you cannot sue for damages. You do have that right. There is also a specific format for the notice which I have shown below.
    2. State law is specific: 

    (3)(a) Upon the vacating of the premises for termination of the lease, if the landlord does not intend to impose a claim on the security deposit, the landlord shall have 15 days to return the security deposit together with interest if otherwise required, or the landlord shall have 30 days to give the tenant written notice by certified mail to the tenant's last known mailing address of his or her intention to impose a claim on the deposit and the reason for imposing the claim. The notice shall contain a statement in substantially the following form: This is a notice of my intention to impose a claim for damages in the amount of _____ upon your security deposit, due to _____. It is sent to you as required by s. 83.49(3), Florida Statutes. You are hereby notified that you must object in writing to this deduction from your security deposit within 15 days from the time you receive this notice or I will be authorized to deduct my claim from your security deposit. Your objection must be sent to (landlord's address) . If the landlord fails to give the required notice within the 30-day period, he or she forfeits the right to impose a claim upon the security deposit. (b) Unless the tenant objects to the imposition of the landlord's claim or the amount thereof within 15 days after receipt of the landlord's notice of intention to impose a claim, the landlord may then deduct the amount of his or her claim and shall remit the balance of the deposit to the tenant within 30 days after the date of the notice of intention to impose a claim for damages.

    (5) Except when otherwise provided by the terms of a written lease, any tenant who vacates or abandons the premises prior to the expiration of the term specified in the written lease, or any tenant who vacates or abandons premises which are the subject of a tenancy from week to week, month to month, quarter to quarter, or year to year, shall give at least 7 days' written notice by certified mail or personal delivery to the landlord prior to vacating or abandoning the premises which notice shall include the address where the tenant may be reached. Failure to give such notice shall relieve the landlord of the notice requirement of paragraph (3)(a) but shall not waive any right the tenant may have to the security deposit or any part of it.

    Keep in mind that if this goes to court and the other party prevails you are liable for their attorney's fees. Also, where have you kept their deposit? If not in compliance, that is another strike against you. Because you failed to send it via CERTIFIED MAIL as required by statute, I think you should pay it and move on. Next time you will be better informed. If you can PROVE you sent it within 30 days you have something to prove you are within the statutes. If you cannot prove you sent it, and they lie, it is your word against theirs. You are always better off listing the damages and cost to repair, including bids or receipts. The statute DOES require certain wording in the notice as mentioned above. 

  • West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 7 votes
    9y
    John, I did send the notice on March 31st via certified mail to my condo address and it came back as undelivered April 11th and i have the envelope . The old notice was sent way early and i did not have the correct expense figures . Here is what i was thinking : 1) i meet him Monday i will reason with him to see if he agrees to take the $1200 we had discussed 2) If he does not accept , i will wait for his notice demanding the money Question: Does this notice if prepared by a lawyer need me to pay any fees or is that only of they go to court and win 3) Even if it goes to court I can always do mediation and at that point pay him back Not sure if i will need to pay him the attorney fees 4) Because i made a mistake i don't want to take this in front of judge now and risk paying for lawyer or fines . Lesson learned , do a complete walk through of the house before and after move in with your tenants .
  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    9y

    @Taz Patel

    Did the notice conform to the statute requirements on wording? If you sent it and it came back, if you have not opened it I would not. If you end up in mediation, etc I have no idea how that works or if you would be forced to pay attorney fees. You really need to take to your attorney on this. 

  • West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 7 votes
    9y
    Sadly the first notice didn't have the legal mumbo jumbo per florida statues. I was unsure how much money would cover the damage . Also i wrote about his illegal subletting . So if they open it in court it wont stand the test of law. This is why i don't want this to go to the judge . I have been reading. Mediation is mandatory in small claims court. So worst case a trip to court and i agree to give him the SD. Unless he decides to screw me over and refuses my full offer under some crazy scheme to get money for his lawyer. What's scrary is some judges could award twice the security $4400 yikes
  • Property Manager · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 296 posts · 143 votes
    9y

    @Taz Patel The moment the 7 days went past and they refused to give you a address to forward any mail to, all of the 30 and 15 day statues don't matter. As @John Thedford took off the actual website.  You still talking to them is causing more issues and building a case for them if their lawyer takes you to court. If you want to talk to a lawyer for a second opinion I can give you a referral to our legal counsel They are one of the biggest eviction (landlord tenant lawyers) in Florida. 

  • West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2016 · 63 posts · 7 votes
    9y
    Shaun Patterson , a good lawyer opinion might help me . You can send me the details . I want to post my email here but not sure if this is against any forum rules .
  • Property Manager · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 296 posts · 143 votes
    9y

    @Taz Patel shoot me a Pm I'll get you the contact info 

  • Investor · Bushnell, FL · Member since 2016 · 456 posts · 224 votes
    9y

    i certainly would not meet him .. he has already threatened you and bottom line is a lawyer is not really going to waste their time to get just their fees and a $2200 judgement.. i coukdnt even get a lawyer to take a abandament case when my surgeon quit right after my stomach surgery and only gave me one day notice .. he didn't set up any follow up care ..  completly agaist the law but there is not enough money in it for a lawyer to touch it .. he is bluffing .. even if he paid out of pocket with hopes that he get reimbursed from you .. you can alway remind him over the phone that you to .. can hire a lawyer and he might be responsible for his fees ..Im sorry for your bad experiance with a terrible tenant .. and wish you the very best ..

    God Speed, 

    Michael 

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.