Tenant is late on rent and avoiding contact

Mike CumbieBusiness Member

REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes

I will have to agree with @Nicole A. on pretty much everything she said. Let your notice speak for you. Chasing someone around begging for payment is a whole lot of work and frankly there are better ways to spend your time growing your business. Essentially you are running around asking for an excuse that she is not even trying to give.... and she will come up with something when you finally corner her. Follow your steps. reminder/late notice/pay or quit/begin eviction. Every time and all the time.

I will disagree with "No tenant should ever be allowed to pay late three times"

The perfect tenant pays on the 6th with Late fee every month. If your rent is $850 a month and the late fee is $40. Where else are you going to make $40 on $850 for 5 days and not be loan sharking?

Just a thought and good luck!

Shaun Patterson

Property Manager · West Palm Beach, FL · Member since 2012 · 296 posts · 143 votes

It looks like you may have a hard tenant that is used to how the previous landlord ran things. Its good that she at least called you to explain your situation. But she still needs to understand who you are and how you run things. She knows how to pay her rent so the only running you need to do is when you post the notices. excuses come in every form. Everyone has issues in their life. How you handle the excuses that they tell you will show what kind of landlord your are. Just be professional and follow your systems and process to the T. Either she will get in line or get out. Its good to come here and talk about issues your having and getting advice from people that it has happened to already. Take everything with a grain of salt though and verify how our advice pertains to your state laws. What works for me in Florida might not work for you in Illinois.

Randall Brown

Investor · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2016 · 71 posts · 39 votes

Originally posted by @John Guinta:

@Michael Noto

Are you suggesting that I still evict her?

If she does pay me in full ...

That is a big IF.

I bet this won't be the last notice that you printed for her.

Chris Purcell

Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2010 · 739 posts · 372 votes

Originally posted by @Thomas S.:

"Of course I am trying to do this right and as professional as I am able."

Professional landlords make the effort to sit down and learn their state landlord tenant codes. You should have studied your state laws before you started your business a year ago. Do it now before you take any other advice from landlords on here that may have no idea of what your state codes are.

Learn the law or you will never come close to being professional

Savage. @John - just do your research, go by the book or hire an attorney and you'll be fine.

Ian WalshBusiness Member

Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Stick to the lease and use the best attorney there is for landlord/tenant court as needed.

OP

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 26 votes

I will say..this is my first time using BP and WOW! some awesome info coming through!

I gave her the 5 day notice from my attorney yesterday.

We'll see where it goes from here.

Karen S.

Investor · Sewickley, PA · Member since 2017 · 59 posts · 32 votes

@John Guinta, I am a small time landlord (this is not a professional opinion). We have had a problem like this in the past, right down to the partial payment offer and the wrong-headed idea on the part of the renter that paying the late fee without being asked is a special concession. The notices must continue to be sent, but yes if you get paid in time you do not need to begin eviction. I can tell you though that we discussed asking the tenant to leave anyway, within the approved legal guidelines. At the time he decided he really couldn't afford it and left so that was easier. I would ask her to move. It's just too much stress doing business this way. The fact that it is an inherited tenant also gives me a bad impression-- I admit it's irrational, but there you have it. (edited to say...oops i see you already made the good decision...I didn't realize there was a second page of messages)

Joshua R.

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 87 posts · 42 votes

@John Guinta

Proceed with the eviction if she doesn't pay by the due date, and if possible, try to come to an agreement out of court. If she does end up paying before the due date and you want to keep her, consider setting up automatic rent payments going forward. This is a great way of collecting rent without you having to chase your tenants around for your money. There are a lot of great services like Cozy that allow you to set this up for free.

3 Reply

Levi T.Pro Member

Rental Property Investor · Tucson AZ / Nice FR / Washington DC · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Originally posted by @John Guinta:

Good morning from Chicago,

I am an owner/occupant of a Tri-plex.

I'm a 26 year old kid and this is my first property and first year as a landlord. So far so good and a really positive experience up until my first hiccup this week.

My two tenants have always been very good about paying rent and keeping me informed if they will be away for extended periods.

One of my tenants is late for the first time and is being non communicative as to her issue. I haven't seen her or her vehicle in at least a week and her daughter is there some days all by herself or gone all day and only comes back for a short time at night.

Last night I posted a note on the door stating that they are past due with the total amount due plus the late fee and to pay in full today.

The paper was off the door this morning.

I've made several phone calls all going straight to her voicemail.

Realizing that I've already waited too long to enforce this, if it's not paid today I was going to post a 3 day notice to pay in full or vacate.

How do I proceed with that process legally outside of simply notifying them with ink and paper?

Living in the building affords some good opportunities but can also complicate some systems, I feel.

I've already contacted my realtor with the situation and desire to start showing the apartment ASAP.

- - - - -

From this scenario what should I ACTUALLY be doing?

Should I text the tenant and do an inspection of the unit?

Should I confront the daughter when she is there?

Of course I am trying to do this right and as professional as I am able.

- - - - -

I am looking forward to the advice and information!

Thank you!

(This is my debut BP post)

Sorry man your 40% trough life before retirement age, your no longer a kid.

Don't be talking to the tenant no more, it just muddies the water and can escalate into other troubles. Read your state laws, send them a certified note, and file court paperwork according, get them evicted by a judge and move on. Tenants stop talking when they don't have the funds no more, and are just buying time before they get the boot.

I suspect your going to have some repair cost coming, so no point showing it till you got possession, as your going to have trash-out, new locks, likely having to paint, you may even have some heavy repairs as well if they are punching holes in things... Best to move quickly on this in writing, and just evicted. If your unsure how to handle all this, just grab an attorney and send them the lease and notices, they will do the rest, you can even tag along in court to get a feel for things.

Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes

I have had this situation with a tenant. Usually pays then doesn't then goes AWOL for a bit.

You are new to this. Eviction is the most expensive step you can take as a landlord - it will cost you way more than 2 months lost rent. So personally I would have to be absolutely convinced that the rent will not be recoverable before initiating an eviction.

I've had this problem in some shape or form with all but one of my tenants. They are all up to date bar one who is aggressively paying off her arrears.

If I had followed the sort of advice you have been getting in this thread it would have run my business into the ground.

Nicole A.Pro Member

Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

@Ihe O. I have to disagree. Costs of eviction varies state by state, and in many states, the first step is a notice that the landlord essentially writes up and posts on the door. That costs zero. I see you're in MD and perhaps your rentals are too. Filing for eviction doesn't cost terribly much here either. In fact, even with hiring a company to handle court for you, it costs around $46 to file for rent court. So I'm not sure what you're paying that is so exorbitant. Official court paperwork usually gets me results when the verbal promises tenants make don't. The tenant also has to reimburse that fee back. I would never encourage someone to not start the eviction process. I do not think that is good advice to give.

OP

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 26 votes

@Ihe O.

She started showing up back at the apartment since we spoke. Which leads me to believe she's making some sort of honest effort.

I don't want to have to go through with the process of eviction if I don't have to because of exactly what you mentioned.

OP

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 26 votes

@Nicole A.

I agree with you.

My tenant has the notice and I'm letting that do my talking for me.

She's aware I'm willing to work with her within the realms of the system that's in place.

Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes

@Nicole A. The cost of eviction is not just the legal fees.

a) the cost of lost rent prior to eviction.

PLUS

b) the cost of lost rent if the tenant sits out the eviction notice and waits for the sherriff

PLUS

c) the renovation costs of making the unit rent ready for the replacement tenant.

PLUS

d) the cost of carrying the vacancy while it is being made rent ready and while you are tenant seeking

PLUS

e) the inconvenience (and cost) scheduling viewings, finding, vetting and installing a new tenant.

In MD a and b alone could cost you 4 months rent.

Nicole A.Pro Member

Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

It's the cost of business. The unit may not need "renovation" but simply a good cleaning. Depending on time of year, rental demand, and asking rent amount, it probably won't be vacant long before getting a good applicant.

It simply is never a good idea to encourage landlords--especially ones that are new and reading this now or in the future--to not file for eviction.

And I have never had to wait 4 months from filing for rent court to eviction day.

OP

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 26 votes

@Ihe O. @Nicole A.

In the event that she is evicted the costs won't be so high. She's not a malicious person and there were a lot of extra things done to the apartment to protect it against damage; or at least make for easy repairs or a simple cleaning.

My true viewpoint: I was a homeless veteran when I got into real-estate (yeah...long long story) and I wanted to be a veteran business owner in the business of providing housing and better quality of life for our vets and veteran families.

If she leaves it opens up an opportunity to get a HUD VASH client in there and put my business more in line with what I dreamt it to be..

....yeah it's a long shot and a lot of red tape and hard work.

Either which way it goes I will find a way to outweigh the cost with benefit.

Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes

@Nicole A. @John Guinta

I am not giving the OP advice. I'm telling the OP my experience.

In Baltimore City you first have to file failure to pay rent, get a judgement for that and then file for a warrant of restitution before you can file for eviction. The one time I went through that process it took 3 months from initiation to completion.

During this time the tenant sat in the house and continued to not pay rent.

She didn't do anything malicious to the property when she left , in fact she cleaned it before leaving but there were some breakages.

Then we found we weren't getting interest at that rent with just the basic cleanup so we made some unplanned upgrades and the new tenant insisted on a washer/dryer before signing.

She had to go but for us the cost of losing her vs keeping her was $15k alot of which was unplanned.

Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes

@Nicole A. @John Guinta

See 1, he was lucky on 2 and forget about 8.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/renewsblog/2016/05/19/10-lessons-learned-tenant-eviction/

OP

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 26 votes

@Ihe O. great read!

Nicole A.Pro Member

Rental Property Investor · Baltimore County Maryland and Tampa Florida · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes

@Ihe O. Yes, great story, but I'm still not sure what exactly you're trying to prove. Simply that evictions can be expensive or that it's not worth filing for eviction because it can be expensive. Plus, you're comparing this writer from New York to Maryland. Again, every state (and even county) is different.

While I have not gotten full repayments back out of people, I have gotten a "settled" amount back from people simply by talking to them. Not always. People have also repaid me in full for damages they have done to my property (which is not often). And again, I've never had to wait 4 months for an eviction.

Also, many times, a tenant never lets it go all the way to eviction. Sometimes, yes, it happens. But many times, the tenant wants to stay! So they find a way to pay the rent and reimburse the court fee.

I'm sorry you've had poor experiences, but it is not an absolute for every other eviction experience. So again, I ask you not to suggest or imply that filing for eviction is a bad idea.

We can go back and forth on this forever, which is starting to go beyond the topic of this thread so I think we're done here. No more beating a dead horse.

OP

Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2016 · 28 posts · 26 votes

@Nicole A.@Ihe O.

Well she paid! Let's just see if these funds clear.

Deposit came directly from her bank..

Also, I'm not apprised to evicting a tenant WHATSOEVER. I was just pretty shocked because this tenant has very good reports and really great credentials.

it was a pretty interesting juxtaposition this month because the routines flip flopped with tenants. my tenant who always pays on the cusp of late actually paid early. And my tenant who always pays on time ended up having all these issues

Mike CumbieBusiness Member

REALTOR® · Brockport, NY · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes

@Ihe O.,

The point about starting the process right away is it mitigates the damages. Posting a notice is step 1. Then filing etc.

If you do not and decide to call them, email, send a carrier Pidgeon over you are wasting time. Because if on day 5 you post a note and they don't pay you go to the next step. If they do pay you stop the process (All the way through until the court date).

Now if you wait and call and chase them around for a month or two and decide you have no choice but to file, then you then still have to start at the notice. If they have not paid you are gaining nothing and losing additional months rent.

So I do not see a reason to not start the process at the earliest time, you can always stop it, but you can never go back and start it earlier than you did step 1.

Just my 2 cents and happy investing!

Investor · Laurel, MD · Member since 2016 · 395 posts · 191 votes

@Mike Cumbie The far more usual case is that the tenant pays, in which case premature action will not have mitigated anything and the legal costs imposed on the tenant could could precipitate further rent paying problems in the future.

Also if it does go all the way to eviction there is a good chance that prompt action doesn't mitigate much. In the eviction that I did acting at the earliest opportunity would have reduced the total eviction related losses by less than 10%.

For all these reasons I prefer to work with the tenant to get them back on track.

@John Guinta Of course she paid.

@Nicole A. I've not had poor experiences, I do not see eviction as a tool to get a tenant to pay, I see it as a mechanism for getting rid of a tenant. But tenant turnover is expensive and the biggest threat to my business. So when a tenant is late my business model prioritizes how to prevent the situation from resulting in tenant turnover. I will only start an eviction if I have concluded that incurring the turnover costs is preferable to keeping the tenant.

Thomas S.

Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes