Tampons causing drain blockage

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Tampons causing drain blockage

Rachel Pivonka
Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2015 · 76 posts · 14 votes

I need some advice. Do I foot the bill? Do I bill tenant for the cost or half the cost? Here is what happened...

I send out a 24/7 plumber on from a large reputable company on Friday after tenant calls. I reminded my tenant that if the problem is caused by a clog it is her expense. Plumber says he thinks it is a problem where the sewer line is out in the yard from a collapsed cast iron pipe. Project managers goes out with plumber to confirm and write  an estimate. To replace the cast iron pipes in the yard is about $1300. 

Turns out they were wrong. After replacing pipes in yard still its still clogged. I'm not happy. Today (Tuesday) they found where the clog was under the house but they had to dig the section of pipe up. When they cut the pipe open they found some roots and 8 tampons. Aside from dealing with the plumbing company who wasn't detailed enough when diagnosing the problem and did work that didn't need to be done what should I have the tenant pay for? The plumber mentioned something to her about tampons at some point and she said she hadn't flushed any.

Before I found out about her tampons I said I would compensate her and she asked for help with the hotel bills because she couldn't stay with family. Today she said her hotel bills are more than $900 which seems high to me for 4 or 5 nights. 

What would you do? My house rules specifically say not to flush tampons. She has been renting there for 3 months. She has a co-signer as well on the lease. Thanks!!

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Kaycee Miller
Professional · Grants Pass, OR · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 77 votes
9y

If your house rules specifically say no tampons and the blocked pipes are from tampons that have been flushed in the past 3-months, it seems clear it is her fault. It might be an embarrassing situation for her, which is why she is claiming that she didn't do it. 

Since it's her fault, I wouldn't give her money for the hotel, but perhaps do not charge her for the plumbing expenses. It seems likes the roots needed to be found and fixed anyway, but her tampons made the issue come to light sooner, rather than later. Explain to your tenant that you are not going to charge her for the plumbing expenses but since she broke the lease terms by flushing tampons you cannot pay for her hotel expenses. I'd also have your lawyer review your lease to make sure the "house rules" are legal and she has no grounds to take you to court for the hotel expenses. 

In the future, if you have more plumbing issues or maintenance issues that require a tenant to stay in a hotel, give your tenants a daily allowance for a nice (but not the best) hotel in your area. That way you know what to budget for and she can decide if they want to stay in a nicer place. $900 for  week seems reasonable for a super nice hotel but high for say a Holiday Inn. 

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  • Kaycee Miller
    Professional · Grants Pass, OR · Member since 2016 · 89 posts · 77 votes
    9y

    If your house rules specifically say no tampons and the blocked pipes are from tampons that have been flushed in the past 3-months, it seems clear it is her fault. It might be an embarrassing situation for her, which is why she is claiming that she didn't do it. 

    Since it's her fault, I wouldn't give her money for the hotel, but perhaps do not charge her for the plumbing expenses. It seems likes the roots needed to be found and fixed anyway, but her tampons made the issue come to light sooner, rather than later. Explain to your tenant that you are not going to charge her for the plumbing expenses but since she broke the lease terms by flushing tampons you cannot pay for her hotel expenses. I'd also have your lawyer review your lease to make sure the "house rules" are legal and she has no grounds to take you to court for the hotel expenses. 

    In the future, if you have more plumbing issues or maintenance issues that require a tenant to stay in a hotel, give your tenants a daily allowance for a nice (but not the best) hotel in your area. That way you know what to budget for and she can decide if they want to stay in a nicer place. $900 for  week seems reasonable for a super nice hotel but high for say a Holiday Inn. 

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  • Rachel Pivonka
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2015 · 76 posts · 14 votes
    9y

    Thanks @Kaycee Miller! I appreciate the advice, that makes sense.

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  • Kim Meredith HamptonBusiness Member
    Real Estate Broker · St Petersburg · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    @Rachel Pivonka because she has only been there for three months, it may very well Not be her tampons. You also have roots in there which also collects all these larger items and doesn't allow them to move properly. Not that they are ok to flush anyway....

    Who lived there prior and how long?

    All my tenants Must have renters insurance, which I think may have helped her with any costs to her. 

    Another side note, during the 2004 hurricanes, I had 11 tenants displaced. Their rent was abated during the time they could not occupy the home, giving money to spend on hotels

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  • Ryan MurdockPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Rachel Pivonka Been there done that. A plumber and I augered 30+ tampons out of partially collapsed root infested sewer line. Bad day to decide to wear flip flops. 

    Since the sewer line obviously had issues and I couldn't prove who flushed the tampons I ended up eating the bill for the entire thing.

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  • Rachel Pivonka
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2015 · 76 posts · 14 votes
    9y

    @Kim Meredith Hampton We bought the place in January, plumbing worked great then. We updated it and she moved in 3 months later. 

    I feel like I shouldn't have to pay for hotel. Those roots probably didn't grow in three months, the house was built in 1930 so the tampons have to have been recent. Right?

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  • Rachel Pivonka
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2015 · 76 posts · 14 votes
    9y

    @Ryan Murdock did you pay hotel cost?

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  • Ryan MurdockPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Rachel Pivonka No hotel in my case. There were simply blocks of time over the course of 3 or 4 days when the tenants were prohibited from flushing the toilet. Not my fault and I responded and dealt with it as quick and reasonably as possible. Sometimes sh** literally does happen....

    As for the roots - it is not uncommon here to have certain buildings on annual root grinding maintenance programs. With problematic properties we have it done as a matter of routine.  Root intrusion doesn't always mean failed sewer lines.

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  • Alan Turner
    Commerce Township, MI · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 5 votes
    9y

    @Rachel Pivonka sounds like it was bound to happen anyway with the root issue, maybe this was a blessing! 

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  • Steve Babiak
    Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Rachel Pivonka:

    ...

    Before I found out about her tampons I said I would compensate her and she asked for help with the hotel bills because she couldn't stay with family. Today she said her hotel bills are more than $900 which seems high to me for 4 or 5 nights. 

    What would you do? ...

    We don't know what you promised the tenant, but it does seem like you did promise the tenant something. So I suggest you keep your promise this time, and be better prepared for the next time. That means nothing is flushed into the drain system other than toilet paper (and human excitement and urine of course), and you make sure this is in the lease and that you clearly inform the tenant of such. And require renters insurance so that the tab for the hotel stay is picked up by the insurance - and don't promise anything that you might not want to uphold.

    And the flushing applies to any guests the tenant has too  (so have that in your lease wording as well) - it might not have been the tenant but a guest, hard to tell since the quantity you found does not seem to be many month's worth IMO.

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  • Chris Eaker
    Buy and Hold Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2013 · 450 posts · 270 votes
    9y

    @Rachel Pivonka I hate this happened. I know this feeling when you want to stick it to the tenant, but you ultimately have had to just eat the cost and move on. Since there are only 8 of them, then you could try to make a case that she put them there, but you probably won't be successful. Ultimately, there is really no way of knowing if this person put those tampons down there. When you purchased the house and were renovating it, the quantity of water flowing down the drain was minimal compared to now when someone is living there, so they may have been there all along. I would probably go with the option of not paying for the hotel and not charging her for the repairs. On the bright side, now you have a brand new sewer line!

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  • Rachel Pivonka
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2015 · 76 posts · 14 votes
    9y

    Thanks for all the advice guys!! We do require renters insurance so I will ask her to look in to filing a claim if she wants. I would assume there is a 500-1000$ deductible though so I am not sure how much it will help her. Thanks for that tip @Kim Meredith Hampton and @Steve Babiak. I did not realize renters insurance would pay for that.

    The only thing I "promised" her is that we would compensate her so at most I would maybe prorate her rent and take of those days to compensate her. When I told her that I thought it was  purely faulty sewer line and not a wade of 8 tampons lol. When she asked about the hotel bill all I did say I send me your receipt and I will look at them but I didn't not say how much I would cover. Our house rules are referred to in the lease, which she signed, and they say expenses from drain stoppage are the tenants expense and also no flushing tampons.

    I am leaning towards paying the plumbing bill because of the roots but not paying for her hotel or compensating her. You have a good point Steve but I do not feel I need to compensate her since I was basing this of of incorrect information. Then again maybe giving her a small amount like $100 might help her be more understanding. I might mention she has not been the best tenant but I guess that doesn't matter all that much. She hasn't broken anything in the lease/rules until the tampons.

    It seems like most of you guys think that would be appropriate. Thanks so much @Chris Eaker, Steve and everyone else for the advice! We are only about a year into owning rentals and this is our first sewer issue. 

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  • Douglas Krofcheck
    Hudson, NH · Member since 2017 · 70 posts · 47 votes
    9y

    In some states if an apartment isn't habitable and the tenant has to temporarily move out then you're not allowed to charge rent for those days.   Double check TN's laws before you decide.

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  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y
    Why not just pro-rate the rent for the unhabitable days? It sets the right standard for your obligation. Paying a small amount of the hotel bill is sort of shot in the dark. Also tell her that renters insurance may help her, she should read the policy. It is not like they don't give you a room rate when you rent a hotel. yeah the tampons may be hers but the tree roots are yours and the fix would be the same for both. Bet she doesn't flush them again. Had a friend who had a system with an ejection pump. Her exchange student flushed tampons and cost them thousands, had your system o my been blocked by tampons only that might be a different story.
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  • Thomas S.
    Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes
    9y

    When issues like this pop up shortly after having a new tenant 99% of the time it is the tenant. You may have offered compensation when you assumed it was your problem but the situation has changed. The roots would not have caused the problem without the actions of the tenant. If you want to give her the benefit of the doubt or show compassion fine but do not expect to ever make any money from your investment with that approach. You owe this tenant nothing, she caused this problem and you are out of pocket. You know that and so does she.

    I would tell her she gets nothing for the hotel time during the actual work to repair the blockage (not the first repair) and that she owes you the full cost of the actual repair.

    If you want to operate as a charity that is your choice but if you are a business and the business says tenant pays then the tenant pays. This is a situation where not following strict business policies will put you out of business. If you are not sure your tenant should pay you need to reassess your business policies.

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  • Rachel Pivonka
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2015 · 76 posts · 14 votes
    9y

    @Thomas S. that is a great point. I want to run my rentals like a business. Thomas do you think that would hold up in court though since there were roots present? Plus if she gets mad she could leave the place trashed eventually. Like I said we are new at this so this is a great learning experience and I appreciate all the feedback!!

    @Colleen F. that makes sense!

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  • David Zheng
    Investor · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2016 · 970 posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    There is one way to find out if it's hers....

    Blood test. hehe

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  • Rachel Pivonka
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2015 · 76 posts · 14 votes
    9y

    Okay I need advice again! @Colleen F. @Douglas Krofcheck @Kim Meredith Hampton @Steve Babiak @Chris Eaker @Ryan Murdock @Kaycee Miller and anyone else!

    I told the tenant I would prorate rent for 6 days but would not be covering the hotel expenses because the major cause of the clog was tampons or feminine products. I told her to check with her renters insurance because they may cover some of her hotel expenses (I am not even sure she read that part because she never mentioned it).

    She is very upset and said she will not accept this. She insist on me taking care of August rent because her hotel cost totaled to more than her monthly rent.  She also said if I don't compensate her she wants out of her lease. I guess she doesn't understand how that works. I do have a clause in the lease that if she wants out of her lease she has to pay two months worth of rent. I told her I would talk with my lawyer and get back to her and I told her I was trying to be fair and I reminded her that it was in the rules not to flush tampons or anything similar. She doesn't understand why if it was just a clog it took the plumbing company so long which has put her out of the house for 5 days. She has not been out of college all that long so I am sure she doesn't understand her responsibilities. 

    Any advice?? 

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  • Chris Eaker
    Buy and Hold Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2013 · 450 posts · 270 votes
    9y

    @Rachel Pivonka well...it could get ugly, but you have done what you could do to alleviate the problem as quickly as possible. Do you have photos of the roots and tampons in the pipe before they cleaned it out?

    Option 1: I would tell her that she should consult an attorney before attempting to breach her lease. I would also tell her that she can file on her renter's policy if she wants compensation for the hotel.

    Option 2: Tell her to forfeit her deposit, pay the 2-month penalty, and move on. 

    Those are her two options. 

    You can't hold her responsible for the plumbing company's incompetence for not finding the problem correctly the first time. You can only hold her responsible for the part where her negligence caused the blockage. But I've learned by going through the courts to get money from a tenant, that it is very slow and arduous and chances are good you will not end up with any more money, and probably less. 

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  • Douglas Krofcheck
    Hudson, NH · Member since 2017 · 70 posts · 47 votes
    9y

    In many places if a lease ends early you're required to look for another tenant.  If you find one, you're not allowed to double-dip on rental income meaning if someone moves in in a week you can only charge her for a week's worth of rent.  

    You don't want an angry tenant.  Parting ways may be the best option.  Next time be clear about what costs you're going to cover and don't change your mind afterwards.

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  • Account Closed
    Investor · Princeton, TX · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Rachel Pivonka:

    @Kim Meredith Hampton We bought the place in January, plumbing worked great then. We updated it and she moved in 3 months later. 

    I feel like I shouldn't have to pay for hotel. Those roots probably didn't grow in three months, the house was built in 1930 so the tampons have to have been recent. Right?

     Actually the roots can grow that fast.  People often use a tool on an auger that does little more that trim the roots.  They grow right back.

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  • Dena Wesley
    Kansas City · Member since 2015 · 23 posts · 13 votes
    9y

    @Rachel Pivonka You may want to mention that her credit, along with the co-signer could be negatively affected if she decides to break her lease if you're not able to reach an amicable agreement. 

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  • Joe J.
    Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2017 · 95 posts · 52 votes
    9y

    @Rachel Pivonka Regarding the hotel reimbursement...am I understanding correctly that you agreed to compensate her on her hotel bill prior to her hotel stay?  If so, did you guys determine a reasonable rate?  If you did agree to compensate her, I would recommend that you do so.  If her bill is unreasonably high, maybe the tenant can pay for any amount exceeding a reasonable rate, but this may be tricky if this wasn't explicitly determined.

    As for the plumbing issue, I'm guessing the tenant would only be responsible for a charge to snake the line (or possibly hydro jet) and any additional water damaged caused from the clog.  The pipe was not repaired because of some tampons blocking the line right?

    Either way I feel for you as I've had my fair share of plumbing issues and have had very emotional/combative responses from tenants when dealing with the issue.  I've typically erred on the side of paying for repairs/compensation if there is some uncertainty on who's responsible.  If anything, this incident may result in new ideas to add to your lease agreement next time around.  This was true for myself.  Best of luck.

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  • Rachel Pivonka
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Knoxville, TN · Member since 2015 · 76 posts · 14 votes
    9y

    @Joe J. I told her I would compensate her for the inconvenience before she said she needed a hotel I didn't say how much. She got a hotel before asking if I would pay for it then she complained about it getting expensive. My response was okay send me a copy of your receipts and and I will look over them and send a check. I did not say how much because I wasn't going to pay for high end hotel. But this was based on the incorrect information. The tenant knew she would be responsible for the plumbing expense if it was a clog from the very beginning and she acknowledged that. 

    I realize now that I need to add in my lease how much I will pay for a hotel if displaced but only if they did not cause the problem. I will talk with my lawyer and it. I have an appointment later with my lawyer so we will see what he says

    Thanks again everyone for the advice!!!

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  • Gail K.
    Augusta, GA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    My thought after reading this was "get rid of her!"   She took you hook line and sinker on the hotel bill.  Honestly; over $900 for a 4-5 night stay?     Where the heck did she stay?


    She doesn't accept the idea you're not paying for her hotel stay and wants out of her lease?  Fine.  Let her go. 


    No way would I be paying for the plumbing bill AND this outrageous hotel bill.


    Gail

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  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    9y

    Politely stick to your pro-rated rent offer and send her to her renter insurance ( which she likely doesn't have or it won't pay). Your lease should have language around the place being uninhabitable, mine says something like we have the right to decide our actions and state law says they don't have to pay for when it's not inhabitable.  It would be good to have something to point to. Mention the plumbing was fine on move in and you are not asking for Any sharing on the  repair costs because you found additional reasons for the plumbing issue besides the tampons. you did not agree to fund a hotel and you have no obligation to put her in a hotel. The thing to keep in mind is that this is your precedent. What will happen if there is a different issue?  Hotels have many price points and there are other options she could considered but didn't.  She was assuming you would pick up the bill. I would say I understand you are upset and if you choose to leave the terms of the lease will hold unless... here I might leave the option that the fee is less if there is an immediate occupancy by someone else. This is the school of life she is in and she needs to understand that. It may be that acknowledging her feelings and reiterating your position are enough. It may be that she goes looking and tells another potential landlord her story and she gets a reality check.  Maybe she gets another place but I would not negotiate (unless your lawyer advises otherwise based on local laws or your lease). 

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