How To Advertise Month to Month Lease
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Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
9yOriginally posted by @Brooklyn A.:
As a tenant, for now until I close again soon, I stay away from 2 types of properties. Keep in mind, I'm an A+, elite tenant with 4 years of verifiable rental history without a month late, or missed payment and I receive letters of recommendation from the last 2 PMs. (Funny thing about those letters of recommendation, they all state that,"...there have been no issues with the property" , yet each one of them make a security deposit claim for the full amount.)
1. M2M agreements - won't even look at them.
2. Owner-Landlord represented properties - when I sue I want to be able to recover. Individual assets aren't difficult to seize by writ, but LLC/Inc.'s are easy.
Typically, a M2M signals a hobby-landlord that isn't "all-in" on their business and are subject to change at 30 days of notice. I command a higher standard. I also request a sample copy of your current lease before application. I want to see your lease before I decide to do business with you. I have been converted to a M2M at the end of a 1-yr term lease but moved out. The way I see it, is, I'll move on my terms and on my schedule. Not yours.
@Deanna McCormick A $250.00 Redecorating fee would be considered to be an unenforceable liquidated damage provision. By mandating the fee, it purports to waive the rights of the tenant to have such security deposit funds deducted for actual damages, and could be argued as discretionary maintenance performed by the owner of the dwelling.
I've read your other posts. You sound like a professional tenant. Why else would an "elite" tenant need such considerations? And yes, I was also in the military and rented plenty of places. I never had a problem where I needed to sue anyone. I don't dispute that there are shady landlords but anyone that has such bouts of problems that they need such consideration is looking to see how they can steal from the margins.
Plenty of professional landlords do month to month, or convert to month to month at the end of the lease. And as soon as I talked to you I know I'd be sending you down the road, elite status and all. Life is too short to deal with prima donna, PITA tenants. Funny thing I've learned is that if you deal with people in an honest and fair manner, you don't have to walk around with a chip on your shoulder and letters of recommendation in your pocket.
Skyline Properties
66 Replies
- Real Estate Agent · Media, PA · Member since 2017 · 361 posts · 250 votes9y
@Art M. why do you consider them superior? I would think you're just inviting more wear and tear on a property. Depending on how transient your market is though, a furnished monthly lease (corporate housing type scenario) could be financially advantageous without much additional wear and tear.
Typically the premium is paid on the short term lease, aka month to month...not the 1 year lease. More turnover possibility =more expenses for the owner. - Member since 2016 · 13k+ posts · 12k+ votes9y
All my tenants are M2M and term leases normally automatically become M2M at completion in most jurisdictions anyway. A term lease does not have any advantages for a landlord and a M2M has no disadvantages for good tenants.
I do not advertise my leases as M2M my applicants find out when they are interviewed and I explain the advantages. I do not charge any different rate since term or M2M has no direct relationship to how long a tenant will stay.
The reality is that tenants are tenants regardless of whether they are term or M2M. They do not seek to move regularly and will stay as long or longer when on M2M as opposed to a term lease. They are generally much more forth coming whith their plans when on M2M since they know they will not be breaking their lease when they decide to move on.
- 9yMichele FischerPro MemberRental Property Investor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
I normally just advertise Flexible M2M lease. When they get the application I explain that if they pay rent and follow the rules that they can stay as long as they like, we just use M2M. In our area we are supposed to record leases that are 12 months or longer, so we have plenty of reasons to avoid leases. The M2M gives the landlord more ability to get rid of tenants that aren't working out, but for tenants you sell the flexibility to them. People who want longer leases are either people gaming the system or people who value stability, ask lots of questions to try to get to their motivation. We prorate the security deposit return in the first year, so they are still penalized if they move out right away.
- Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes9y
I never list MTM In my ads I just put down great lease terms.
When a qualified tenant is interested I say I only rent month to month, I will put in the lease that the rent rate will remain the same for 12 months, I also put on security damage deposit form that if they live in the apartment less than 6 months a $250.00 redecorating fee will be charged.
This gets rid of the people only looking to rent during for a short period.
- Eustis, FL · Member since 2017 · 96 posts · 6 votes9y
As a tenant, for now until I close again soon, I stay away from 2 types of properties. Keep in mind, I'm an A+, elite tenant with 4 years of verifiable rental history without a month late, or missed payment and I receive letters of recommendation from the last 2 PMs. (Funny thing about those letters of recommendation, they all state that,"...there have been no issues with the property" , yet each one of them make a security deposit claim for the full amount.)
1. M2M agreements - won't even look at them.
2. Owner-Landlord represented properties - when I sue I want to be able to recover. Individual assets aren't difficult to seize by writ, but LLC/Inc.'s are easy.
Typically, a M2M signals a hobby-landlord that isn't "all-in" on their business and are subject to change at 30 days of notice. I command a higher standard. I also request a sample copy of your current lease before application. I want to see your lease before I decide to do business with you. I have been converted to a M2M at the end of a 1-yr term lease but moved out. The way I see it, is, I'll move on my terms and on my schedule. Not yours.
@Deanna McCormick A $250.00 Redecorating fee would be considered to be an unenforceable liquidated damage provision. By mandating the fee, it purports to waive the rights of the tenant to have such security deposit funds deducted for actual damages, and could be argued as discretionary maintenance performed by the owner of the dwelling.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes9y
Originally posted by @Brooklyn A.:
As a tenant, for now until I close again soon, I stay away from 2 types of properties. Keep in mind, I'm an A+, elite tenant with 4 years of verifiable rental history without a month late, or missed payment and I receive letters of recommendation from the last 2 PMs. (Funny thing about those letters of recommendation, they all state that,"...there have been no issues with the property" , yet each one of them make a security deposit claim for the full amount.)
1. M2M agreements - won't even look at them.
2. Owner-Landlord represented properties - when I sue I want to be able to recover. Individual assets aren't difficult to seize by writ, but LLC/Inc.'s are easy.
Typically, a M2M signals a hobby-landlord that isn't "all-in" on their business and are subject to change at 30 days of notice. I command a higher standard. I also request a sample copy of your current lease before application. I want to see your lease before I decide to do business with you. I have been converted to a M2M at the end of a 1-yr term lease but moved out. The way I see it, is, I'll move on my terms and on my schedule. Not yours.
@Deanna McCormick A $250.00 Redecorating fee would be considered to be an unenforceable liquidated damage provision. By mandating the fee, it purports to waive the rights of the tenant to have such security deposit funds deducted for actual damages, and could be argued as discretionary maintenance performed by the owner of the dwelling.
I've read your other posts. You sound like a professional tenant. Why else would an "elite" tenant need such considerations? And yes, I was also in the military and rented plenty of places. I never had a problem where I needed to sue anyone. I don't dispute that there are shady landlords but anyone that has such bouts of problems that they need such consideration is looking to see how they can steal from the margins.
Plenty of professional landlords do month to month, or convert to month to month at the end of the lease. And as soon as I talked to you I know I'd be sending you down the road, elite status and all. Life is too short to deal with prima donna, PITA tenants. Funny thing I've learned is that if you deal with people in an honest and fair manner, you don't have to walk around with a chip on your shoulder and letters of recommendation in your pocket.
Skyline Properties - 9yArt M.Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 414 posts · 94 votesOP
@Brooklyn A. Please post more so I can get a better understanding of how to avoid tenants like you.
- Eustis, FL · Member since 2017 · 96 posts · 6 votes9y
@JD Martin BP Landlords bandy the "professional tenant" dogma anytime a tenant holds you accountable for illegal activities.Your naked allegations don't hurt my feelings, and you can't and won't minimize or neutralize your liability. It comes with the territory of your business, and I'm not someone you can otherwise washout during your screening process. No one is forcing my PMs and Landlords to give me a glowing reference letter, they do it *because* I am exemplary.
I've been lurking here since March 2017 and have surmised on of two possibilities:
1. Either I'm an outstanding tenant with the extraordinarily bad luck of running into LL's who, as you allege, cash grab from the margins; or
2. The BP community of landlords are simply a larger control group that simply reflects my experience with the landlording/PM businesses.
I'm inclined to believe number 2 since I have 3 lawsuits, each one I have won and I collect. All actions that were predicated upon the landlord's first move.
@Art M. I'm pretty sure that tenants like me are the 0.01% of the segment, as far as qualification standards go. I am articulate and highly educated. I don't think you could screen me out which is another can of worms I'd open on you. I play my hand close to my chest, but I play by the "don't start none, and there won't be none" rules.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes9y
Originally posted by @Brooklyn A.:
@JD Martin BP Landlords bandy the "professional tenant" dogma anytime a tenant holds you accountable for illegal activities.Your naked allegations don't hurt my feelings, and you can't and won't minimize or neutralize your liability. It comes with the territory of your business, and I'm not someone you can otherwise washout during your screening process. No one is forcing my PMs and Landlords to give me a glowing reference letter, they do it *because* I am exemplary.
I've been lurking here since March 2017 and have surmised on of two possibilities:
1. Either I'm an outstanding tenant with the extraordinarily bad luck of running into LL's who, as you allege, cash grab from the margins; or
2. The BP community of landlords are simply a larger control group that simply reflects my experience with the landlording/PM businesses.
I'm inclined to believe number 2 since I have 3 lawsuits, each one I have won and I collect. All actions that were predicated upon the landlord's first move.
@Art M. I'm pretty sure that tenants like me are the 0.01% of the segment, as far as qualification standards go. I am articulate and highly educated. I don't think you could screen me out which is another can of worms I'd open on you. I play my hand close to my chest, but I play by the "don't start none, and there won't be none" rules.
Sure I can. Lucky for me, "*******" is not a protected federal class. We always have plenty of qualified applicants, and there's no requirement to rent to someone that one can be relatively certain is going to be a pain in the ***. Unfortunately for your victims, they are obviously not as adept at picking up on your predatory signals.
Question: since landlords are all such bums, why don't you buy your own house? Do you enjoy filing and litigation?
Skyline Properties - Eustis, FL · Member since 2017 · 96 posts · 6 votes9y
@JD Martin are you certain I am not in a protected class? How can you be certain any of your qualified applicants aren't a protected class?
You fail to face a very important question of yourself, "what exactly am I doing here?" I'm not here to harass my previous or current landlord, no bone to pick. I am answering the OP's forum question in the spirit of candor and transparency.
You indicted yourself, no one made you do that, but you do and you see no problem with what it betrays about the character of your business person and your business activities/practices. You ask why I don't own, as if you want to distance and remove someone like myself who enforces their rights as a renter/tenant. My thinking is you're just like the previous landlords who never saw suit coming and you're having a bad reaction to it. Most of them took it personal too. Some lost their business entirely.
- 9yArt M.Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 414 posts · 94 votesOP
You've been hanging out on a landlord forum for 5 months, you know the law clearly, you use fancy words and try to sound intelligent, sounds like you might be a protected class and cry discrimination at everyone... why are you here? Need a hobby? Take up archery. It's fun.
- Eustis, FL · Member since 2017 · 96 posts · 6 votes9y
Find one instance that I cried discrimination. I prefer guns however; thinking about a crossbow.
- 9yArt M.Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 414 posts · 94 votesOP
@Brooklyn A. You said, 'How do you know I'm not a protected class?' He said that ***** is not a protected class, which is a personality trait. It has nothing to do with whether or not you're an actual protected class.
You borderline gloated that your lawsuits caused people to lose their businesses. Even if they were completely in the wrong, that's just so ****** and telling of your personality.
- Flagstaff, AZ · Member since 2016 · 44 posts · 60 votes9y
Where's the 'guy eating popcorn' emoji on this forum!?!
This is gonna be good.
- Eustis, FL · Member since 2017 · 96 posts · 6 votes9y
The Florida Legislature would disagree on the matter of it being my personality trait. This is a matter of law and how your business actions fit into it. I won't connect the dots but any lawyer on here will attest the truth of a court order that would order divestiture of any interest in any enterprise, including real estate.
And no, I don't feel bad about shutting down a business that scams the public.
- 9yArt M.Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 414 posts · 94 votesOP
@Brooklyn A. OK so you just confirmed that you're a professional tenant milking the fact that they're a protected class and filing frivolous lawsuits. Thanks for your input and have a nice life.
Still on the fence about MTM versus 1yr leases... @Matthew Olszak made some really good points for them but you guys are awaying me again.
- Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes9y
It's alright, all - don't feed the trolls, and they'll eventually find someplace else to forage. I should have heeded this advice! The odd thing about the internet is any 19 year old living in momma's basement with cheetos fingers can be a real estate expert. A site this big is bound to attract rodents.
Skyline Properties - Eustis, FL · Member since 2017 · 96 posts · 6 votes9y
@Art M. There is no good way to insult another person. I admit to filing lawsuits, against trashcan landlords and PMs who deserved it for their illegal activity. How long had they been running that scam on the public before someone came along and proved their case? I'd guess long enough to pay the monetary damages of my judgments without much trouble. I'm not sorry for auctioning off their seized assets.
I'm not a protected class nor have their been any frivolous rulings against me; another naked allegation, have you some proof? Please quote my admission. Oh that's right you CAN'T. I'm going to insult your person, by stating boldly, that you sir are an inflammatory forum troll. I'm going to insult your defense of illegal business practices as a public scam designed to deprive the public of their monies.
- Real Estate Investor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 143 posts · 167 votes9y
@Brooklyn A. If you've successfully sued 3 landlords, the odds are very high that you're entering into leases actively looking to create a situation that you can exploit for financial gain. You are the absolute worst kind of tenant. If you're not a landlord, don't want to be a landlord, and obviously don't like landlords, why are you even here? Go buy your own place and move on with your life. Just keep one thing in mind...karma is a b****.
@Mindy Jensen can we get this clown off the boards?
- Eustis, FL · Member since 2017 · 96 posts · 6 votes9y
@Ian R. Nor have I admitted to such activities. Another naked allegation. Calling for my removal from this boards for posting verifiable and accurate information? Or just information you don't agree with or want to be known. My thinking is you should want me around. Would you rather I go to a pro-tenant website and teach this stuff?
Keep in mind, no business owner can be held liable for a cause of action for which they did not commit. Don't start none, and there won't be none. I got into this because my last 3 landlords demand that I be more, "hands-on". I much rather golf, I'm retired and my green game needs improvement.
You've no defense which is the same reason I win in court.
- 9yNed J.Pro MemberInvestor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
My simplistic opinion on long term lease vs M2M.....
Leases protect tenants.... the law protects them from getting screwed by the landlord. The tenant breaks the lease, you may have legal standing but good luck actually getting any $$ out of them
M2M protects the landlord better..... you are a douchebag tenant? Get the F- out. If you have a long term lease signed with that tenant, good luck with getting them out..... the law is ALL in their favor
So the lease may make the landlord feel warm and fuzzy that they have a long contract, but in my opinion in reality it is a false sense of security and limits your ability to deal with bad tenants.
Yes there are horrible landlords that could possibly screw you if they constantly alter a M2M....but lets face it... there are WAY more horrible tenants out there than landlords
Hope I never have a tenant like someone above....damn.... 3 lawsuits against landlords? Sometimes when tons of bad stuff seems to always happen to you, sometimes its not "them" that's causing it...its "you" that is the problem....
- Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes9y
@Art M. In the listing descriptions, I don't mention anything about a lease term. When posting on websites, I put in 1 year lease as the term when forced to via a drop down. That's strictly for search purposes...99% of the people won't even notice it unless they are specifically looking for something less than a year, in which case you don't want your unit to show up.
- Eustis, FL · Member since 2017 · 96 posts · 6 votes9y
@Ned J. yeah, I think I may be the problem. Landlords are used to treating everyone like dirtbags, and really have no business training or acumen to deal with great tenants. Most landlords try to work it out with me, usually quite unsatisfactorily, but I still give the opportunity for them to come to grips with the fact they've crossed a great tenant. Being an exemplary tenant works against the landlord too, since in court there is no real material facts in dispute and my character is without reproach.
M2Ms are not feasible with someone who actually has a budget. I might consider a M2M if I am new to an area; looking for a job; etc. but never a long term solution. 2 months tops is what I'd give it.
- 9yArt M.Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 414 posts · 94 votesOP
@Brooklyn A. What illegal practices? I do the right thing even if at personal cost. Not even because I'm a good guy but because I'm in this for the long haul and don't think I'm the smartest guy in the room, so I just have to do the right thing. And I'm certainly not a troll. I'm just on here asking for advice on how to build a life for myself and my family. This place has been a great resource. I'm done replying to you though. Have a great life.
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