Can tenants demand only licensed and bonded contractors? - WA

Kirkland, WA · Member since 2016 · 39 posts · 17 votes

Hello BP - Anybody know where i can find the answer or have the answer? Property is located in Maple Valley, WA. Appreciate sharing your experience.

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Robert Hudson

Crossville, TN · Member since 2017 · 121 posts · 168 votes

Hmmm. Perhaps we need licensed and bonded tenants.

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Michael Ablan
Real Estate Broker · Watertown, NY · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
In my county, the home owner is allowed to do any repairs themselves, including asbestos removal. So in my case, no, they cannot demand I use licensed or bonded contractors. However, I have to be very careful and make sure I'm doing things EXACTLY by code, or else I could be reported.
I guess it all comes down to your local codes and rules. Technically the tenants can't demand it, but your town/city/county sure can.
Good luck!
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Luka Milicevic
Real Estate Agent · Nashville, TN · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
Contractors that are licensed and bonded are bad enough. I don't know why you would think to use contractors that are not!
1 Reply
Sam Shueh
Real Estate Agent · Cupertino, CA · Member since 2016 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Perhaps you need to understand the motivation behind the request. Poor workman ship in the past? Lawsuit?
What do they care about licensed bonded? Want cheap rent or want steep rent to comply to one person's wish?
Doctors office? or Apts ?
0 Reply
Ned J.Pro Member
Investor · Manteca, CA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
It's a dishwasher install..... it's not even really "plumbing" in my book...same as a pea trap.... this is pretty basic stuff and although I can understand state requirements, this is stuff any basic DIY person can do, so to me it doesn't meet the level of skill to even consider state requirements as a factor
0 Reply
Kyle Bryant
Attorney · Houston, TX · Member since 2016 · 61 posts · 38 votes
9y
Say no to your tenant's request, and have someone you trust do the work. Think about it—what is the tenant's recourse? Reporting you to some administrative bureaucracy? If your local laws require such trivial work to be done by licensed contractors, then you're already in trouble. But if they don't, then your tenant has no basis for their demand. If they get upset and vacate the property, then you've just gotten rid of a problem tenant. It's a win-win.
2 Reply
Account Closed
Rental Property Investor · Torrance, CA · Member since 2016 · 724 posts · 1k+ votes
9y
I'd tell him if he wants to control who works on the property he should buy his own home.
3 Reply
Frank Chin
Investor · Bayside, NY · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y
Good replies and I also wondered about it myself.
The one thing I haven't seen is people talking to the insurance agent. I've been warned by my agent to be sure contractors are licensed and insured because my landlord insurance would deny coverage if something happens and the contractor is not licensed and insured.
If the contractor is not licensed and insured and if a worker is injured doing work at my property, I'm told in my state the property owner will be sued. Now I look to my insurer, and they say "did you check to see if he is insured"? No? Normally is is covered by workman's comp if the contractor is insured.
Also, in the past, some tenants, especially women asked if I'll be there. The reason is safety. They don't know if the guy showing up is some pervert. If I tell them the guy is licensed and insured, they feel safer.
These days, I used "Homeadvisor.com" to search for contractors, and they advertise that they run license checks, criminal background checks on contractors that go through their site. Hopefully this will also assure my tenants.
1 Reply
Johann Jells
Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes
9y
Well,while I agree this is Handy Man work, I do it all the time, the tenant could be right about this work theoretically needing a licensed contractor. As I understand it, when you break the trap seal, that's when you need a plumbing license. And since most dishwashers don't plug in, you're actually wiring cable into the unit, again, electrician work.
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Linda S.
Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
@Johanna V.,
I would politely tell them that you have your set list of preferred contractors. If they would prefer to use their contractors, they would be required to pay them directly.
It's very minor stuff you are doing, it's not like you're taking down load bearing walls and guessing, basic stuff shouldn't be an issue.
3 Reply
Jana Hristova
Property Manager · Tampa, FL · Member since 2016 · 34 posts · 25 votes
9y
Johanna, when I send a vendor to repair something they only report to me. There are absolutely no discussions with the tenant. Most of my tenants are reasonable people but some really test me. Stand firm and state your rules. If they don't like the rules maybe they should not be in your house.
Good luck!
4 Reply
Johanna V.
OP
Kirkland, WA · Member since 2016 · 39 posts · 17 votes
9y
I've contacted City of Maple Valley, WA (where the property is located) I was told that anything that it's been replaced for what's already existing don't need a permit. Hence, I can do it myself (which i don't) or anybody without needing to licensed, bonded contractor.
@Frank Chin This tenant has a problem with security (because he has installed cameras inside and out) so I understand what you pointed out, it could be a pervert or thieve if not bonded and insured -- that gives a bit of security. But, I have re-assured the tenant that the guys that do the maintenance work, have been doing it for me for years. I trust them even in the house i live in, and let them in when i'm not in town if i need something done. I cannot afford to be at the properties all the time, and worse if i'm out of town, I do it all virtually. But my guys are there when i need them, trusty and hardworking people that are not charging me a leg and an arm.
@Richard C. What are your screening criteria tips to avoid tenants that "demand"? I have very specific requirements starting in the ad itself, to weed out unwanted tenants. But character is hard to figure i guess, given my experience with this particular tenant. He was very proper. I know some tenants need more training that others, but this one has shown to be nice and then this demanding temperamental character comes out! I've already proposed to let him go, then he comes down (all on emails) For sure, no renewal at the end of the contract!
So glad i have found BP community. Your thoughts and input, help small investors like myself. Thanks all for sharing your experience and input, it is very valuable!
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Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
9y
It is great you called the city. Always consult them first when doing work for proper licensing and permit requirements. Some people have given you incorrect advice - some don't even know their own local laws, let alone your cities. It is better to go to the source. Rules vary by city, county and state.
1 Reply
Jana Hristova
Property Manager · Tampa, FL · Member since 2016 · 34 posts · 25 votes
9y
@Richard C. I agree with you 100 percent. Getting the right tenants in the property through proper screening is the key.
1 Reply
Natalie KolodijBusiness Member
Moderator
Tax Strategist| National Tax Educator| Accepting New Clients · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y
You guys are literally ignoring the tenant and all of their possession.
What if you chose to hire some rando handy man who isn't licensed and such and they steal everything in the apartment you let them in while the tenant was at work.
I was in a situation years ago (In Seattle actually) where the landlord had the lower level sump pump repaired by some random person while we were living there. Well they fixed it incorrectly, our lower level flooded (lower living space split level house) and a lot of items were damaged.
We had to fight with our insurance to cover our damaged goods because the person who did the work wasn't licensed/bonded. So they didn't have any recourse on their end.
Also, it comes to as a single woman if someone's going to be in my home with me- I'd like to know they're not some hobo rapist you hired at lowest dollar.
I realize it's your house and your choice- but it's my dwelling and my possessions at risk if they're not reputable.
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Johanna V.
OP
Kirkland, WA · Member since 2016 · 39 posts · 17 votes
9y
@Joe Splitrock yes, i did contact City of Maple Valley, you probably replied before my posting went live. The city cannot say "licensed and bonded contractor are not required". But I was told: "when swapping out or replacing like for like, no permit is required". I asked specifically for what i was doing -- swapping a dishwasher and the p-trap installation. He said you don't need permit for it. Hence, anybody can do it, given that there's no permit required then no inspection required.
1 Reply
Steve Vaughan
Rental Property Investor · East Wenatchee, WA · Member since 2014 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
9y
Originally posted by @Johanna V.:
What are your screening criteria tips to avoid tenants that "demand"?
Glad you figured it out is not law in WA to have licensed and bonded contractors do piddlies on your own property.
To avoid nitpickers, I like to show before it's completely finished. I have stuff like paints and tools in there usually. I look and dress like the handyman and tell them the place 'is what it is'. For $400 more per month, they can go down the road and rent one of the new buildings that are agency-managed if they seek perfection. I won't be coming over if you see an ant. I won't be pandering to your every need. I will take good care of you, but I need tolerant and flexible residents. Again, my old building is what it is and I am busy.
My applications are also stored in a cupboard. Sometimes I forget to bring them if the applicant is asking millions of questions or just crazy. This tenant must have given you hints during the showing. What were they?
The 'upper crust' tenants will flinch and move on usually. If not, I'll agree to e-mail them an application once I find a pen. Aw, shucks.
6 Reply
Johanna V.
OP
Kirkland, WA · Member since 2016 · 39 posts · 17 votes
9y
I do get @Natalie Kolodij 's point. As a woman, i'd have the same concern if renting, so i put myself in their shoes -- and also because i don't want to be liable as a landlord if something were to go wrong.
So I've never sent a random person to any property. If someone else besides the guys that do my work need to go, then most likely it'll be a company, because it'll be out of the work scope that my guys can cover. I'm very conscious about it. It's not worth saving, and then be liable with very costly consequences. Again, my guys are doing the maintenance of the properties for many years, i know them well through the years. They'll have more to loose anyway.
Btw, this tenant is a single male in his late forties, the only house occupant.
1 Reply
Jordan White
Insurance Broker/Investor · Truro, Nova Scotia · Member since 2017 · 19 posts · 10 votes
9y
As everyone seems to be agreeing, this is ridiculous. I'm sure this tenant doesn't even know what term bonded means. In my opinion I would just notify the tenant within the stated time frame outlined in the lease that there will be someone coming to do the work. I would advise the tenant that he/she does not have any ownership of the building so it does not give them any say on who is hired to complete the work.
Of course all contractors performing work on the building should be insured/licensed in the event that there is any damage caused. If there was an issue regarding a claim brought against you from the work performed by this contractor, your insurance company would most likely subrogate against the contractors insurer and collect any money paid out from the claim. So in the end you would be protecting yourself to make sure the contractor is licensed and insured.
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Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
9y
Originally posted by @Natalie Kolodij:

You guys are literally ignoring the tenant and all of their possession.
What if you chose to hire some rando handy man who isn't licensed and such and they steal everything in the apartment you let them in while the tenant was at work.
I was in a situation years ago (In Seattle actually) where the landlord had the lower level sump pump repaired by some random person while we were living there. Well they fixed it incorrectly, our lower level flooded (lower living space split level house) and a lot of items were damaged.
We had to fight with our insurance to cover our damaged goods because the person who did the work wasn't licensed/bonded. So they didn't have any recourse on their end.
Also, it comes to as a single woman if someone's going to be in my home with me- I'd like to know they're not some hobo rapist you hired at lowest dollar.
I realize it's your house and your choice- but it's my dwelling and my possessions at risk if they're not reputable.
I agree. Installing the dishwasher wrong could cause an electrical fire or major water damage. Since the tenant lives there, they have rights to expect the work to be done properly to protect their safety and property.
It could be that this tenant views their landlord as inexperienced. Is the tenant wrong? She had no idea what local code requires for licensing to do work at rental properties. She had to be told multiple times to call the city and check, before she finally did. The tenant is probably concerned about her judgement picking qualified people to do the work.
I am wondering why the OP seems annoyed that someone would want licensed and bonded contractors? Wouldn't a landlord want people doing work at their property to be properly licensed and bonded (depending on the type of work being done).
2 Reply
Irina Belkofer
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2017 · 719 posts · 658 votes
9y
@Joe Splitrock you're impaling that she's inexperienced because?? she asked us the question?
I change p-trap myself all day long and the dishwasher been replaced: it means all plumbing and electric (if hardwired is already in place.
It is simply to take old dishwasher out and put new one in. The specifically trained guy from LOWE's did it 4!! times until my friend came along and fixed it within 10 minutes.
He's a landlord with hundreds of the dishwashers and just know how. All these licensed, bonded, insured guys don't necessarily do it everyday.
@Johanna V. don't let tenants dictate what you're going to do. Even if you're younger and a woman, doesn't mean they know better than you. Tell them firmly how it's going to be done and no BS demands.
One of my tenant wanted ants sprayed by most expensive company around here, I said - if she pays for that, I can even subscribe for a year of their services. If not - Home Depot spray will be sufficient.
Any objections - I'll let her go without early termination fees. Now we are best friends. Tenants need some boundaries or they will make your life a nightmare.
3 Reply
Bettina F.
Investor · Post Falls, ID · Member since 2016 · 606 posts · 699 votes
9y
Jeez, really makes you want to add "Passes evaluation by a psychiatrist" to the ole' rental criteria!
2 Reply
Johanna V.
OP
Kirkland, WA · Member since 2016 · 39 posts · 17 votes
9y
@Joe Splitrock tenant is a male, in his late forties, only house occupant, and he is a contractor - does remodel, construction work -- licensed/bonded.... I believe, he has 2 issues: 1- his problem with security (setting cameras inside/out the house) from a robbery experience. 2- He is a contractor, probably doesn't like that no company or contractors bonded and insured are used for this type of work. He's bias.
To top it off, he's temperamental, and constantly I have to be specific, factual, and firm. Then, he complies. The problem is that it;s an ongoing issue. I just told him, I'll be flexible to let him go before the contract ends with no $ consequences. I just want him out whichever way i can.
As i said before, It's not worth saving, and then be liable with very costly consequences. When it's required i do hire companies to do the work, for this particular situation it's not worth it, and I won't do it just because the tenant demands it. Per the city/county anybody can do it, even myself. But i rather have someone skilled and trusty to do the work and pay for it, but in this case it's not worth paying an arm and a leg.
I never thought that asking the community will be a mistake or seeing as inexperienced-- for sure, one ever stops learning. But, I just wanted to see how other more experienced investors deal with this kind of situation, and if they were in the same state, even better.
Thanks all for your support and help sharing your thoughts and opinions!
1 Reply
Douglas Orr
Rental Property Investor · Greensburg, IN · Member since 2016 · 65 posts · 40 votes
9y
Sounds like you need a new tenant.
2 Reply
David Song
Real Estate Broker · Redwood City, CA · Member since 2014 · 679 posts · 888 votes
9y
Dishwasher replacement do not need licensed contractor. Plus, this tenant is a problem. Let him go.
0 Reply
Johanna V.
OP
Kirkland, WA · Member since 2016 · 39 posts · 17 votes
9y
@Irina Belkofer I like that you say it like it is. Will do!
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